[Maggie Beth]

We met a couple who are both Italian citizens; they live here in the United States and have permanent resident status. They are interested in adopting from Guatemala or China; can they adopt and bring their child to the U.S.? How would they start the process? Can they use a U.S. agency for their homestudy and placing agency? They were asking me tons of questions and I don't even know where to tell them to start. The husband is a tenured professor at an American University, so they plan on living here for the foreseeable future. Any ideas? Thanks...

[BrandyHagz]

Maggie,

You have to be a US Citizen to adopt Internationally and bring the child back to the US.

You can, however, adopt domesticly.

[Maggie Beth]

Originally Posted by BrandyHagz

Maggie,

You have to be a US Citizen to adopt Internationally and bring the child back to the US.

You can, however, adopt domesticly.

Really? How disappointing for these folks... I know of American citizens who live in other countries who have been able to adopt, why couldn't these folks? That doesn't make any sense to me...

[AdoptAmiga]

At least one person of the couple needs to be a citizen of the US. If they are permanent residdents and have their lives tied to the US, maybe this will be the impetus to start the citizenship process. Having a non-US citizen spouse, I know it's a very emotional issue to "cut your cititizenship ties" with the home country. I don't know if Italy is a dual citizenship country. Another aspect for this couple to pursue. Best of luck to them.

[sak9645]

In order to get an adoption visa for a child (IR-3 or IR-4), at least one spouse must be an American citizen. There is no way around this law.

[Maggie Beth]

Originally Posted by AdoptAmiga

At least one person of the couple needs to be a citizen of the US. If they are permanent residdents and have their lives tied to the US, maybe this will be the impetus to start the citizenship process. Having a non-US citizen spouse, I know it's a very emotional issue to "cut your cititizenship ties" with the home country. I don't know if Italy is a dual citizenship country. Another aspect for this couple to pursue. Best of luck to them.

Thanks for the feedback. I guess I have not asked my question very clearly -- if this couple were living in Italy, would they be able to adopt internationally? If the answer is yes, then there must be a process for them to adopt internationally thru the Italian govt while living in the U.S. Does this make sense? I am not ready to tell these folks, "You are out of luck!" Someone must be able to advise about this issue....?

[AdoptAmiga]

I'm NO EXPERT on this subject (others on this forum are much more well versed), but I would say, yes, they probably can adopt as Italian citizens through the agreements between Italy and the adoptive country. However, in order for the child to come to the US w/ an IR 3 or IR 4 visa, one of the parents must be a US citizen.

[sak9645]

Maggie,

Please remember that there are two components to every international adoption -- the adoption itself, and immigration of the child to his/her new country.

The adoption must be completed under the laws of the child's country of citizenship. So Italian citizens would be able to adopt from any country whose laws permit Italian citizens to adopt. Although I don't know for sure, Guatemala's adoption laws probably would allow Italian citizens to adopt.

Immigration of anyone to a new country requires compliance with that country's laws. If the Italian citizens were living in Italy, their child would have to qualify for immigration under Italian law. If the Italian citizens were living in the U.S., their child would have to qualify for immigration under U.S. law.

Most countries do have laws that restrict immigration in certain ways. The U.S. Immigration and Nationality Act is the law that governs immigration to this country. The Act permits two kinds of visas for adopted children -- IR-3 and IR-4. (IR, by the way, stands for "immediate relative.") To qualify for an adoption visa, at least one of the adoptive parents must be a U.S. citizen. The child also has to meet certain requirements. For example, he/she must have been adopted lawfully in his/her country of citizenship, the birthparents cannot have been coerced or bribed, and he/she must be categorized as an "eligible orphan" under a definition unique to the law.

Many people have sought to change aspects of the U.S. Immigration and Nationality Act. For example, there are a lot of folks who think it's ludicrous that a child who is not seen by all relevant parents prior to finalization is issued a different visa from a child seen by all relevant parents, and must be readopted or have his/her adoption "recognized" in a state.

However, at this time, the chances of liberalizing the Immigration and Nationality Act do not appear good. Maybe down the road, but not now.

Sharon

[Maggie Beth]

Thanks again for the input, folks. I guess I just hoped someone had some specific info about this situation.

Sharon -- I understand how immigration works. Thanks for the detailed message explaining the US immgration process.

[waitinginnj]

Russia permits Italian citizens to adopt. They may be able to start there.

[marie2005]

My understanding is that if a couple adopts a child in another country (like your friends adopting from Italy), then the child has to live with them (or one of them) there for 2 years before the child could get a visa to enter the U.S. I don't know the ins and outs of it, but do know couples that are both non-citizens considering this. What I don't know is if the child could get a tourist visa to visit this country. There are probably groups out there that would have answers. I used to read on the nri-ichild (non-resident Indian) group on ichild.org and this subject came up alot. I even seem to remember of a case where the child was able to get a visa to immigrate to the U.S. before the 2 years were up.

[Sandy Harboe]

As most of you know I'm an American Citizen & my husband is a Danish Citizen. The way they did our adoption was to put me down first & him second, but since I don't work they used his income status for me. If they could do something like that it makes you wonder what else they might could do to help out these people. Best of luck to your friends.

[Devora]

While I agree with Sharon's explanation of the IR-3 and IR-4 visa laws, your friends should still talk with someone on the Italian side first and then find out from them whom to talk with on the US side. It doesn't sound like anyone here is expert enough to give a definitive answer.

I say this in part because when I lived in Japan there were numerous US citizens who adopted children from Korea. While there were a different country's laws in play there (and military dependent status, too), it makes me think that it's worth talking with someone more in the know about other laws that may apply.

While it's true that non-US citizens could not get an IR-3 or IR-4 visa for a child adopted abroad to enter directly into the US, that does not necessarily mean that Italian citizens who have a US visa cannot obtain a visa for their minor child to enter the US. If they had entered the US and had minor children already (adopted or biological), they could have obtained visas for their children.

I would suggest that they start by talking with the nearest Italian consulate's office.

Best wishes,
Devora

[Maggie Beth]

Originally Posted by Devora

While I agree with Sharon's explanation of the IR-3 and IR-4 visa laws, your friends should still talk with someone on the Italian side first and then find out from them whom to talk with on the US side. It doesn't sound like anyone here is expert enough to give a definitive answer.

I say this in part because when I lived in Japan there were numerous US citizens who adopted children from Korea. While there were a different country's laws in play there (and military dependent status, too), it makes me think that it's worth talking with someone more in the know about other laws that may apply.

While it's true that non-US citizens could not get an IR-3 or IR-4 visa for a child adopted abroad to enter directly into the US, that does not necessarily mean that Italian citizens who have a US visa cannot obtain a visa for their minor child to enter the US. If they had entered the US and had minor children already (adopted or biological), they could have obtained visas for their children.

I would suggest that they start by talking with the nearest Italian consulate's office.

Best wishes,
Devora

THANK YOU, Devora. Yes, they will be talking with their consulate this week. I appreciate everyone's concerns!

[sak9645]

Your situation is treated differently in the U.S. Immigration and Nationality Act. The Act specifies that it's fine for a U.S. citizen married to a legal immigrant to secure an adoption visa for a child, as long as both parents and the child meet all other requirements of the law. The issue of whether you are put down first or second is irrelevant to this discussion.

However, under the Act, it is not possible to obtain an adoption visa for a child if neither parent is an American citizen. Short of advocating for changes in the law, there isn't much that can be done by the ordinary couple. The options are very limited:

a) They, or at least one spouse, can apply for U.S. citizenship and wait until it is granted. Then they can adopt from overseas. This can take a very long time.

b) They can give up permanent resident status, return to their country of citizenship, adopt a child, and bring it up in their country of citizenship. This often means giving up a good job and all the things that brought them to the U.S.

c) They can have one spouse live abroad with an adopted child for two years, then come to the U.S. This is untenable for most families.

d) They can investigate domestic adoption in the U.S. It may be possible, I'm told, though I am not 100% sure.

e) They can give up their dream of adopting.

Not the greatest options, to be sure. But until the law is changed, they are the only options.

Sharon