[Guatemom]

Hello, forum friends!
My agency told me that it would be a while before I got an update b/c the agency directors & attys in GC were in some sort of closed-door meetings; and that the reason for those meetings being held on Thurs/Fri was b/c of Pres. Bush's inauguration festivities-that way they could hold their mtgs while the Embassy was closed I guess. Anyway, I still haven't heard anything--and haven't heard on the biglist what those meetings were---any clue?

[jlinberger]

no, but you have peaked my interest! I think they are discussing the Linberger case and getting it moved along. Hahahahahahah!!!!!

[foxl]

I thought Becky posted to another thread??? Check page 2.

[cluster]

I "heard" that the attorneys are going to "take action" (whateve that means?) against PGN because they're requesting things that, by law, are not required for cases to be approved. I don't know if this is just talk at this point or actually happening. Stay tuned!

I just want to get PGN approval!!!

[Guatemom]

I completely missed that---thanks! I'll check!

[moelladeville]

Last week's meeting was the Focus on Adoption conference. Here's the url to learn more about it: http://www.focusonadoption.com

As far as what exactly was discussed, I don't know!

[mary594]

I hope the meetings were on PGN and their ridiculous demands. Even though I am thru with the process I remember the frustration of PGN.When I went to pick up Juliet I brought my PGN reviewer a bunch of chocolate and I wanted to see him but I guess according to my attorney they tend to be nervous about meeting the parents so he declined. But my way of thinking and I discussed this with my attorney is that eveyone gets money in this adoption process. The agency the attorney, the foster parents. Everyone except PGN reviewers, the attorneys have incentive to get the cases thru fast at least my attorney did not get all his money till my case was done. Maybe if they were paid also or given gifts it would give them incentive not to be unreasonable to say the least. Everyone wants things to be forthright and honest but some of what PGN does is down right ridiculous and they have no right to do it. So that was my solution, crazy as it may sound.

Mary

[brink]

Mary...that kind of talk worries me. Adoption must remain ethical for all concerned, for the hope and future of adoptions, and mostly for our adopted children. They should never have to live with doubts as to whether or not they came into our families as legally abandoned and legally adopted children. To suggest that anyone on this side of things should give "gifts" or payment to get their case moved through the system...even if stated merely out of frustration or jest and even though that type of thing does occur on the other end of this...now that scares me! Never should we allow our fears, frustrations, anger, or any other emotions to tempt us to suggest or consider doing anything illegal or unethical in order to become a parent. That's exactly what makes the system so slow to begin with. If no one received "extras" for paperwork favors, everyone would do the business at hand, without thought of possibly making more than their share at the sake of a child and waiting family. Paperwork would not be "held hostage".

I will assume that was out of frustration, and in complete jest, since it would only make matters worse for others to follow behind such a case.

Also, though I would tend to agree that much of what PGN does would seem to us to be ridiculous, remember we are dealing with another culture and with legal papers translated into another language. Translations are not always clear, as words and thoughts do not always translate word for word. When you receive your child's file translated into English from Spanish, you will see what I mean. Some of the wording is interesting, to say the least! I can understand why sometimes things need to be clarified. Add to that the variety of social workers we have here doing homestudies, agencies who do or don't tell clients all they need to know before they submit the dossier, and other "mistakes" they must have seen hundreds of times at that end, through no fault of our own. In reading posts, I am sometimes surprised at the variety of answers people give to one asking about correct paperwork for their dossier. There must be hundreds of ways agencies submit some of these things, if these posts are accurate. And we need to recognize that the work ethic and speed at which that culture does things is just plain different than America. We will never change a culture, and if we want to parent one of their beautiful children, we have to accept their way of doing things right up front. Granted, it would seem from here that there would be ways of making the system more "uniform" across the board. But I would venture to say there would be as many ideas here as there are already in Guatemala!

And though I may get "flamed" for saying such, what I sometimes find ridiculous is the attitude I have read in some posts that suggests if we were in charge, things would be done differently, by gum! I really wonder, if we all care about children as much as we seem to, would we do anything less to ensure that every bit of information about the child, birthmother, and adoptive family was true, accurate, and honest? As hard as the waiting is, would we want to parent a child we later found out had come into the system against the birthmother's will or fraudulently? Not me, thanks. How would my child deal with THAT? How would I deal with THAT?

I also have to disagree with you in saying that they "have no right" to do some of the things they do. In reality, they have every right to ask for whatever proofs, notaries, explanations, extra documents they wish, since they are reviewing our cases. It is we on this end who do not yet have the right to "interfere" with the process, or to come off as "demanding" foreigners. Yes, lawyers are working for us...but they are also working for birth families and the country and future of Guatemala, which is allowing us to take their most precious treasure from their country. Patience, though very difficult at times, is the best we have to offer, both for ourselves and for others we can encourage along the way.

Sorry to come across so strong, if you were "just kidding". But I am very serious about encouraging people to see this process for what it is and should be... at least as far as we as adoptive parents have it in our power to make it...again, for the childrens' sake, both ours and those who will remain behind.

[mary594]

You Know it is really funny because after I wrote that thread I wondered what kind of responses I would get, and I KNEW someone would take it out of context. I was not talking about bribary, I was not talking about doing anything illegal at all. I was mearly stating a fact that the lawyer gets paid by us to do a job and that job is to get our children to us. My agency right out of there mouths said that lawyers have incentive to get the cases thru fast (she did not say illegally) and that is they want there paycheck. Of course the foster families will get paid as they do in this country although not very much but they are doing a job, taking care of our children and exceptionally well I may add. That is why we give them gifts as a thankyou. I am sure there are people that don't give gifts, I also gave gifts to my attorney and his assistants because I wanted to thank them for doing a good job. I did bring chocolates down and wanted to meet the PGN reviewer because the way I felt is they do a job also and yes they get paid by the government not by us. I also wrote in my original post that everything should be done legally to get the children home and yes you are right that does not always happen. I was in no way implying that they should be bribed. I told my attorney I brought the PGN reviewer chocolates to thank him for a job (although PGN was not easy for me and yes I got kicked out 3x) and I felt maybe if they felt we were thankful for there job it would put them in a better frame of mind. Also I got kicked out of PGN for something the reviewer could not legally do.

I understand why people freak out on this board, because we all know things are read by other people. That is why I was so worried when I was going thru the process. This post was not to get anyone upset, I used to joke thru this entire process that is how it got me thru it. So I apologize to anyone that took this post wrong that was not my intention. When I was in Guatemala for the pick up trip I mentioned to the other families that I tried to meet the reviewer and Thank him and give him a present they all thought it was a great idea. Lets face it when you do a good job and someone gives thanks to you or gives you a gift of thanks doesn't that put you in a better mood and gives you the incentive to do your job even better?

Mary

[Paparama]

The Focus on Adoption conference was designed for U.S. agency professionals and Guatemalan attorneys as both a source of information and a means to get together and discuss common problems and issues at a "professional" level. The program contained speakers on various issues, including humanitarian aid, law changes in the past and possible changes in the future (both in Guatemala and the U.S.), and "breakout" sessions during which the agency professionals discussed ethical issues and various problems common to agencies (presumably, the Guatemalan attorneys discussed issues particular to them during their breakout).

[openarms]

Mary594, I just want to say that I understood your sentiments perfectly. I think most people would.

Brink, you do feel strongly about other folks' attitudes. Strongly enough to start your own thread on the topic? That way, your valid points would be given the thoughtful consideration they deserve, and not mistaken for criticism of others.

[dooleyangel]

I agree Openarms, you took the words right out of my mouth!!

I am getting tired of reading these posts. I clearly understood Mary's intention and there was not one thing "unethical" about it. We are all in this together. This process is hard enough without having such responses.

[brink]

I too chuckled, knowing I would get some interesting responses. Not knowing you personally (nor you me), I could only take your words for what I thought they might be suggesting. I do "freak out" (your words) at any mention of things which could jeapordize the adoption process in Guatemala. Sorry to be so strong, but I am passionate about adoption...and not only for the sake of the adults becoming parents.

I know these forums are less for discussing ethical issues of adoption and more for support during process. You don't know me to realize my passion for encouraging people to consider adoption, and to encourage them during the process. This will be our fourth adoption, third Guatemalan...and we just started on one more as we wait to travel for our 10yr old daughter.

I confess, seeing what I thought was the hint of "incentives" in any form of bribery, I took it upon myself to voice my concerns and hopefully get people thinking beyond the box of their own personal story, in the interest of future adoptions.

I will take all of your own good criticism of my strong sentiments on the chin. I'm sure some of it was deserved. I don't intentionally try to hurt, misjudge, or misunderstand, but your words did raise my hackles. Enough said...unless there is more someone wishes to throw at me. I get the point, to be sure. Did anyone get mine?