[SPECIAL KIDSDOC]

Hi-
My wife and I adopted our first baby girl from GC in 98, we had a pretty smooth process I think. Anyway here is my concern. I feel taken advantage of by many in GC at the moment. I am very unhappy that we have been mislead by a few on guatadopt. I thought we fought the fight and our child would be home on Halloween as Susanna promised. I have waited and waited. I have now seen people who are post mch 5 come out of pgn.. We are pre-
I fear that we are all being spoon fed a bunch of crap and have to wonder if our child will ever come home?? Its one thing after the next. PGN will listen to NO ONE!!!
Does anyone else feel this way?

Jim
Proud daddy to
Arden and soon to be (maybe) Vanessa-

[KDhappygal]

I think many of us share your frustration on the lack of PGN releases but personally, I always took Susana's posts and projected dates as a possiblity and not set in stone.


Also, though we are not a pre 3/5 case, I too have seen cases released that were refered after ours, entered PGN after ours, kicked out and resubmitted after ours and we are still in PGN. I know this is true for many listmembers as well.

It seems very few cases are actually being released and it appears the cases are not being released in a consistent manner or based on any consistent time marker such as date entered into PGN or date refered or anything else.

I do not understand why things are allowed to continue in this manner. At least when the HT was being debated, there was a reason, now there doesn't appear to be one. Or we are not aware of it.

We are all tired of waiting and wondering and feeling frustrated with the hands off approach to the problems at PGN.

[becky]

Kathy and Jim,

Welcome to the world of Guatemalan adoption...pre Hague Treaty. It has ALWAYS been the case that some people get out of PGN quickly and easily, while others wait and wait. In my almost 3 years involved with adoptions from Guatemala...this is the one consistent thing---that there is no consistency in PGN.

This is nothing new...it's just new to many of you...everyone had hoped that as soon as the Hague mess was cleared up things would go back to 'normal'...but unfortunately, this is pretty much normal for PGN...very sad, but true.

[KevinK]

First of all, it is not fair to state anything derogatory about guatadopt.com. The site is not affiliated with Susana, the ADA, or anyone It is merely a portal for information. Susana apporached guatadopt about posting her updates there, and guatadopt agreed to do so. I know Kelly who runs the site and have written some things on it myself. Without getting angry, your depiction is unfair.

As for Susana's updates that have been posted there, I personally believe that it has all been accurate with some optimistic spin. We all have an obligation to think for ourselves and not accept anyone's opinion as the gospel. We also have to think about what is fact and what is opinion. The home by Halloween statement was an optimistic opinion, one that I personally thought was overly optimsitic,. But you also have to realize that Susana is not clairvoyant and couldn;t predict things like the PDH (Human Rights office) filing amparos as well as that it would take as long as it did to get the Hague decision printed.

I feel for you. I've been waiting a long time as well and can't wait to get out of PGN. And I apologize for sounding too harsh. But I've been involved with Guatadopt, have written some of the campaigns, etc and I take enormous pride in my ethics and honesty. Guatadopt is nothing more than some people in the process who care and have tried to do something about it with various campigns, info, ideas, etc. Trying to fight for the future of adoptions is difficult enough, we could really use the support of others in the process.

Once again, I do not mean to flame. BUt I feel obliged to set the record straight.

[jtmom]

Hi Jim,
I can totally relate to what you are feeling. We completed an adoption in 2000 with relatively few problems (5 months from referral to pick up). Now we are with the same agency, different attorney and it has been 13 months since referral and still no baby (in and out of PGN & CA since April). I agree that Susana should not make statements about the children being home by Halloween when she really didn't know that for sure. I have learned to take what people say with a grain of salt but it is still hard to get your hopes up and then knocked down again. Sometimes I don't know who to blame- agency? lawyer? PGN? Guat gov't? us govt? Hague? or the process itself. Take your pick. I am also at the end of my rope and wonder some days if the babies are ever coming home. You are not alone. I hope better days are around the corner for all of us who are waiting.
Diane

[tinkerkel]

Thanks Kevin for YOUR support! I wanted to add a few comments myself. First, I am surprisingly not offended. I figure that such statements only derive from frustration or lack of understanding. But from time to time, I also want to remind people that Guatadopt.com is not a business nor a fulltime endeavor (LOL...I sometimes feel it is!)...it is ALL volunteer. Any funds we receive are through affiliates or sales helps fund the COST of hosting the site....and as of yet, most of the fees come out of my pocket still. I started the site with some basic rules of my own...the first was to centralize information about Guatemala adoptions that was NOT agency-specific. The information is out there, its just convenient to have it in one place....I think. The second rule was to balance advocacy with information. I admit, time is always an issue with me....I have a 13 month old, a fulltime job and keep biting off more than I can chew!!!

As for being misled by Guatadopt.com....I believe that you confused wishful thinking with the actual post: I will quote Susana (since you indirectly referred to her post of Halloween):

"If the PGN does not attempt any other stalling tactic, we can tell you that all children whose adoptions were rejected for Hague Convention reasons will not be home by Christmas, but in time to dress up for Halloween!"

I believe PGN has very heartily been creating stalling tactics left and right. So, the post is about as accurate as it can be.

I am probably more defensive of Susana who is spending countless hours fighting for your children to come home. While we all feel frustrated, I am sometimes shocked that people will blame her for the shortcomings of the system.

I want to remind EVERYONE, that if we did not have Susana and ADA....you might have had to write off your adoptions from Guatemala by now.

MISLED? Not even close. When/if we can predict EVERY little thing that can happen with Guatemala AND can change it to your liking......we'll start charging a fee!

Kelly (mom to Dani)
guatadopt.com

[janadd]

I do understand the frustrations of parents waiting. I was a pre 03/05 case and was told I would travel in late June or early July. Every time the phone rang I raced to the phone. My agency was wonderful in listening to my frustrations and answering questions the best that they could. I brought home my daughter on 09/13/03. I would visit the forum mulitiple times a day prior to traveling. I was always amazed at the questions asked here that I felt would be best answered by attorneys or agencies. Yes
everyone here has the same interest, bringing home our children. We must remember that posts here, or any other forum, are the inviduals experience or opinion. Forums are great for support, asking about motels, etc. (I loved the banned Target post) but for the critical things, please rely on your professionals.

Janadd

[Bassette]

When I read this post, I was passionate to throw in my .02! However, Kevin and Kelly have covered my thoughts completey,.......and THEN some!!!

I would like to offer that when Susanna, or anyone else, posts info or opinions it is based on conditions at that moment in time. Things change so often in Guatemalan Adoptions.

[jtmom]

I want to clarify that while I do relate to what Jim shared about feeling frustrated with the process, I am behind Susana in her efforts. I do appreciate all she has done on behalf of Guat adoptions and for the children. Guat.adopt is a very informative site and we are fortunate to have access to the information there.

Diane

[becky]

Janadd,

While it would be great for everyone to be able to ask their questions to their agencies and attorneys...the sad fact is not every agency is as responsive as your was. We have many forum members who cannot even get their agency to return a phone call...so for those folks, boards like this provide the only possible way to obtain information...and while none of us this board claims to be a 'professional' we do the best we can to provide information and support to anyone who needs it.