[Tejuana]

Hello,

My husband and I have decided to adopt and as most know it's so confusing getting started. I am trying to choose between two agencies. Reading some other posts really raises questions for me as far as fees of an agency. We live in California. The fees through the two open adoption agencies I'm choosing from are around $13,000 for one and close to $15,000 for the other. Does this sound about right for an "open adoption agency" in California? Also, when I asked one of the agencies if they worked with attorneys that they could refer me to, she said that if everything is done right I probably wouldn't need an attorney. Shouldn't that be a red flag for me? This is a nationwide agency and I actually know somebody who has a beautiful little girl who was matched by this agency.....but that statement seemed strange to me.

Any information would be greatly appreciated. Thank you for reading and have a great day!

[redhedded]

An open adoption does not usually determine the agency fees; some agencies work only with expectant mothers and prospective adoptive couples who are looking for such. Other agencies permit the expectant mother to choose which form of adoption will work for her. Agency fees vary greatly within states, and as you are probably aware, the state of California also has many facilitators that charge fees for matching couples with expectant mothers. The fees that you mentioned are very reasonable and average, I think, for a domestic placement. You did not mention, however, if they are required upfront. Many agencies will ask for a percentage of the estimated fee initially; this is done for good reason to ensure that you are committed to working with them and that the resources they provide to you and expectant mothers will be covered. The problem is that some agencies and facilitators ask that you sign a contract agreeing that you will be matched in a given amount of time, which could be as extensive as two years. If you have not had a successful placement in this time, then you may forfeit any monies paid. An application fee is standard, and many agency fees do not cover the cost of homestudy and post placement visists. These are additional, as is any travel, of course, if needed. Many agencies also do not include finalization of the adoption in their fees; in fact, I would say that most do not. While you can adopt from virtually any US state using an experienced and reputable agency, you generally must finalize in your state of residence. There are some exceptions, such as Arkansas, which permits finalization on the 10th day following termination of parental rights. Texas also permits non-residents to finalize there, as does Utah, I believe.

Nonetheless, EVERY adoption requires legal services. At attorney whether recommended by your agency or working for your agency must file the documents to finalize. You can locate a AAAA in your area but most agencies will recommend one that they have worked with. Such a statement seems VERY STRANGE and questionable; maybe is was a misunderstanding.

I strongly recommend that before committing to any agency or avenue, contact your local Division of Licensing, which is often headed by Medicaid. All licensed agencies are regulated and reviewed annually, just as group homes, nursing facilities and childcare facilities are. The BBB is not an adequate form of researching business practices. I wish you luck in these sometimes scary first steps of this journey.

[spaypets]

I don't know what the rules are in California and perhaps domestic adoptions which include termination of rights are more complex than my international adoption, but we are in the final stages of finalization and there's been nothing that needed an attorney. The forms I completed were quite straight forward and since I would have had to gather the information for the attorney to complete the forms it seems as if it would have been an unnecessary expense and redundant.

We haven't had the hearing so perhaps I will have an unpleasant surprise, but I can understand an agency saying that if everything goes well, one wouldn't need an attorney.

[Tejuana]

Thanks for the quick responses. I've been looking forward to having today off so I can soak up as much info as possible and I'm so glad I found this site.
Of the two agencies I'm torn between, one has a limit of adoptive parents they work with (25-30) and the other can go as high as 300 parents. That's one thing that is confusing me. Also, the first step with one of the agencies is a $500, 2+ hour "counseling" session. If we decide to continue at that point, the initial fee is an additional $3700 for contract. Other fees are not required until a match is made. I know I'm going to have a hard time explaining this $500 counseling session to my husband. He is very concerned about fees and getting scammed. Right away he didn't see how this session was necessary if we've decided we want to adopt.

Thanks again for the quick responses. I'll keep soaking up information and reading and praying.

[spaypets]

Some sort of adoptive parent meeting/classes/counseling is a pretty standard part of the homestudy. In our state it's a requirement.

It's where you learn about the adoption triad, postive adoption language, grief and loss, life books, dealing with others, transracial and cultural issues.

Some of it is bunk, quite honestly, and I have to say my agency's classes were the pits (We called them grief and loss classes -- they've since revised the curriculum). But the classes did convince me that traveling overseas to pick up my daughter was much better than depending on an escort (I'm sooo glad I went). There was also a discussion about lifebooks -- something I plan to do for my daughter and we met another family from our area with whom we have a lot in common. So there is some use. I did, looking back on it, learn alot.

[tobeafamily]

Hi,

I'm not specifically familiar with California, but to me those fees seem on the high side for a domestic parental placement adoption - especially if they don't include legal services. That may be though because the cost of doing business in California (as well as the cost of living) is higher.

I honestly can't imagine not needing an attorneys' services and would be cautious of anyone counseling you otherwise. Adoptions are complicated, emotionally charged events that IMHO require skilled, experienced professionals to ensure things are done 100% correctly.

Spaypets - I think the key difference is that yours' is an international situation. In most international situations, as I understand it, termination of parental rights is done long before prospective aparents are considered, and that may be the key factor. In most cases as I understand it you're 'readopting' a child already adopted following another country's rules (though I could very well be wrong here).

Here in the states, adoption laws surrounding voluntary termination of parental rights can be very complicated. If, say, TPR is taken 1 minute before it's allowed to be, then it can be ruled as invalid because it was taken 'too soon'. Literally.

Tej - ask for itemized listing of fees, they should be able to provide, and see if you can use 'as you need' rather than paying flat fees.

Beware of any agency that 'promises' or 'guarantees' a connection within x months or has 'x' pbmoms waiting. I'd also ask what the staff-to-family ratio is - It's OK to work with 300 families if you've got 20 staffers to handle their issues. You'll want really no more than 1-5 or 6 ratio to be sure you'll get the attention you need at critical times.

Above all, understand that the more networking and personal searching you do, the better your chances will be. I've made up a list of tips on ways to network, please feel free to e-mail or PM and I'll send them on.

Best of luck, please feel free to ask questions.

Regina, AMom to Ryan Joshua Thomas

[spaypets]

In the case of a domestic adoption it's probably better to have an attorney.

One point of clarification -- in many countries the adoption is finalized overseas and the children are US citizens when the hit US soil. But in some countries, India and Korea, we are just granted guardianship and have to finalize the adoption back in the states (my daughter has her green card!). Parental rights are terminated long before we get a referral, so there is not that issue.

[amom4life]

Hi ,
I'm in California and we are working with a facilitator. We have an attorney, were told we must have one and I can't imagine doing a domestic adoption without one no matter how smooth it goes.

Before going with our facilitator we checked out a couple of agencies. The fees you mention are pretty much the norm. Some agencies are even a little higher.
Judy

[MNelson]

Tejuana,

Just thought I'd post a theory on the attorney question. The agencies you spoke with may have their own attorney(s), and they may be saying that you "may or may not need" *your own* attorney. If the adoption can be finalized in a state where their attorney can practice (i.e. the birthmother is in that state), then an additional attorney would not be required (it's still not a bad idea to have an attorney from your state advise you if can swing it.)

The fees you cite are pretty typical ... but there's a whole lot that may or may not be included, and the fees can vary considerably based on the program you are interested in (i.e. CC or AA) or how much in expectant mother expenses you are willing to pay.

To help sort out all the all the confusion that my husband and I had, I made up a spreadsheet that helped me ask the same questions of each contact. I'm going to start a new thread called "Agency/Facilitator Research Info" and attach that spreadsheet in case others find it as helpful as I did.

Best of luck, and just expect that you'll find that the more you learn the more you have to learn