[lillith666]

i am searching for any info on lieselotte lutter she gave my mother up for adoption as well as another daughter in germany in the late 50's my mother was in a orphange and was adopted by americans. we do not know the name of the father but were told he was in a uniform from another country and is possibly italian. lieselotte relocated to the us in the late 60's and passed away in the late 1980's in virginia i do believe any information on her or the birth father would be so greatly appreciated my mothers birth name was erika waltraud lutter. she was in darmstadt west germany in a orphanage. thanks for any info you may have

[6boysrus]

Try doing a Social Security death index advanced seach to find out Lieselotte's last name/married.

Do the advanced search ONLY putting in her first name and last known residence..

Maybe you can find her husband or children..

http://ssdi.genealogy.rootsweb.com/cgi-bin/ssdi.cgi

Yvonne

Here is death information

[Edited]
The posting of personal information, even for the deceased, is not allowed on the forum without consent

According to the phone books
There are 2 wildhagens living in Virginia
www.switchboard.com

Norfolk/Williamsburg area are heavy military Navy/Marines and shipyards as well. Perhpas she married miltary which could explain why she was issued ssn in North Carolina

[lillith666]

thanks alot i have already called those numbers before with no luck. but i greatly appreciate the help. it is a very confusing mess to try to work out. lieselotte was born in east prussia which is now poland. and all the records for the city she was born in were destroyed by the russians a long time ago so i have no hope of finding a sister of sibling of hers. i have been searching for so long it is so frustrating! she did not put the fathers name on the birth cert. but about a year earlier she had a child before my mother and she was also put up for adoption. and i did find this lady and she is my mothers sister, she said she was told her father was a italian soldier stationed in germany at the time so i am assuming they may have had the same father cause as the story goes when my mother was in the orphanage a tall dark haired man in a uniform from another country came and said that she was his child and he wanted to see her and he did then left to never return. so i know he is out there i just want to know who he was and where he was from so i can know what my family is. i havenver even seen a pic of my grandmother. i would love to know what she looked like and who she was like what her life was like. i thankyou for the help it was very nice of you to do that for me.

[6boysrus]

Well, Some more help for you..

If your grandmother was of Polish origin, living or born in the prussia area, chances are she ended up in Germany during the war in a DP camp. (Displaced Persons). Germany has kept VERY good records of this and The German, not american Red Cross helps reunite families seperated, many times years and years after the war. Where the orphanage may not help, you may have some luck with the red cross. Of course do not tell them about adoption. You can tell them that you are doing genealogy and a search for your next of kin.
You may even be able to get a copy of yur grandmothers birthcertificate. You can also write to SS admin to get a copy of her death certificate.
(most eastern poles were sent to germany during the war for labor and some families from that region were sent to Siberia)
Do you happen to know what grandothers husbands name was? Perhaps he moved out of state?

I am polish and my aparents survived the war and were also in DP camps before coming to america. My mother is from the LWOW region of poland which is now the Ukraine. Her entire family was sent to Germany during the war.

Another help might be the Archdiocese of which your grandmother was born. You can also write them for church records- the Catholic Church has kept proficient records on families. If you could narrow down the town or surrounding providences, i could obtain the addresses of where to write the information. I do speak, read and write polish so I could assist you with that as well.

Another thing that might be of help is to search the obituaries for the date that your grandmother died in the local norfolk newspapers. Perhaps that may give you some more clues as well. Your local library should have access to this.

[6boysrus]

One more thing..

Prussia only existed until 1918. East prussia became poland in 1919 thru 1939 and after the war was divvied.

The cities within did lose records as you stated. But the Church kept meticulous records.

Did you contact any genealogical societies or searchers that are able to assist you??

Yvonne

[lillith666]

well her husband was named hans wildhagen i know this much and they were in norfolk virginia. and she was born in november 11 or 12th of 1922 in a place called ostpreusen and i was told that translates to "east prussia" she was a prodestant it said that on the birth cert. she named my mother erika waltraud lutter she gave her up right after birth and the other lady that she gave up for adoption was adopted at birth about a year prior to my mother and i found her looking also on the internet, she is in hawaii now. all she knew is what i know now except she was told her fathewr was a italian soldier. so i am wondering if they had the same father? lieselotte did not put a fathers name in the birth cert for her or my mother. but if the church keeps records then maybe they know something about her, since she was prodestant. but i am not sure if ostpreusen is east prussia or not you would probably know more than i would since u can speak polish.i would appreciate it so much if you could help me find where to write or call to find out about her. i did not know about the camps i thought only the jews went to camps and i know from surname searches that lutter was not a jewish name so i never thought to look into the camp thing. i appreciate your help so much it is so frustrating searching for her and then when i did finally find her she is already dead, but i hope to find a relative or someone that maybe she told her story to that would know who my grandfather was or where he was from so i can fill in the blanks here. another thing the sister tolld me was she was told that lieselotte was a housekeeper for some family possibly the fatheers family and she was a hunchback?? i thought that was sorrta wierd? the adoptionm was done in such a way that lieselottes name was not hidden from the people involved i dont know if this was common practice or not in germany but i know she went through the trouble of naming my mother so i think she may have cared about her and possibly at some point told someone about her and who her father was i am hoping anyway. but like i said her husbands name after my moms birth was hans wildhagen. thanks so much

[lillith666]

by the way...any thoughts on why she wouldve gave both daughters up for adoption? maybe you know something about what was going on over there at the time that wouldve made her do that?? just wondering cause 2 daughters given up in just over 2 years seems odd to me

[6boysrus]

first off.. here are some places in addition to the Red Cross where you can write.

This is the Archive for EPrussia, they carry what is left of the E prussian, civil, church and misc records
Staatsarchiv Geheimes Staatsarchiv
Archivstrasse 12 - 14 Preussischer Kulturbesitz
D-14195 Berlin Archivstrasse 12 - 14
(Ostpreussen) D-14195 Berlin
(Ostpreussen,Danzig,Koenigsberg)
Germany


I dont happen to have the red cross, but they will be of help as well, they do this sort of thing..

I also dont find it odd that a woman can give up tow children within a short amount of time. This is exactly what happened to my sister and I. We are only 15 months apart and grew in two different families.

Ironically there is a hans Wildhagen in Nebraska .. looks like perhaps he is living with perhaps a son named Gary Wildhagen who is 53 years old. have you made contact with them?

Also, LDS has many Microfiche available on german-prussian history perhaps they will be able to assist you as well.

If you dont speak German or have a contact in germany you may want to seek assistance of a german genealogist that can access the records you need for you.

www.genealogy.com also has a list of many lutter families on file. you can do the search on the left hand column by the last name and i came up with 2 pages of records available...


I hope this may help or at least give you a start.

Osteoprussen is east prussia, yes. In order to narrow down your research you must have the name of the village/town where she was born.

2 things I mentioned b4. Write for the social security death certificate, and write for her birth certificate.
I think the ssdi showed her dob as november 12th,1922
when you obtain her BC, it will list her parents names and where they were from. you can begin to trace that family lineage..

Ironically, The italians did not have a base/troops during the Occupation in Germany. Germany was divided into zones between US, Britain, France. Perhaps the father was American with Italian heritage??

[lillith666]

i have made contact with the wildhagen family in Ne. the man hans had died in 1995, he has been married since like 1952? but they said they knew little about him before he was married to the wife he had at the time of his death.i have searched and searched and he is the only hans wildhagen in the entire usa! they are asking family members now if any of them know of him having a relationship with a german woman as he was a us resident from birth and was never a resident that any of them know of at this time. i called the local library in norfolk and they searched and there is no obituary for her even though she died there? this is all very cryptic to me. i have spent so much time searching and all i can find is that she was married to this hans wildhagen man yet he was married to another woman in a totally different state??!! so all i can imagine is perhaps they were married in secret to get her a citizenship? the lady i talked to was his daughter in law and she said they always thought it strange that he wasnt married until he was in his 40s. and that his life before the marriage to the wife in 52 is just a mystery that they have never known what he did or where he was b4 that time. so maybe just maybe this is the man. the only reason i am thinking it is is because he is the only hans wildhagen i can find in all the usa. as wierd as it seems to me perhaps he was secretly married to another woman for some reason i dont know. i am sending for a death cert. for her this week thanks so much for your help i am also going to write the address you gave me and contact all the other orgs you gave me. thanks so much any further feedback is more than welcome!!

[6boysrus]

ok.. well this may unfold some of the mystery then..

Once you get the death certificate, it should say last known residence or list the residence at time of death.

Somehow maybe you could get some cross referenceing on the address to see who lived there. Maybe the guys name wasnt hans! Maybe that was a middle name.

Another thing too would try to find the cemetary record or where she was buried.

Perhaps she really did live alone. If she married a military guy.. which would explain the area she came to NC(where ssn was issued) and then in norfolk, maybe husband died in vietnam and she was left a widow? Maybe there wouldnt be an obituary IF she didnt have any children with him. Just guessing here..lol maybe its too far fetched.


here are the cemetaries in norfolk
Cemeteries of City of Norfolk, Virginia
Cedar Grove Cemetery
Elmwood Cemetery
Forest Lawn Cemetery
Woodlawn Memorial Gardens

Maybe you could call and they surely can provide you the information of whats written on the tombstone - i dont know what else they can release..
But maybe it says something like wife of.. blah blah blah or her husband may be buried next to her.. Thats worth a shot too..

Either way this stuff doesnt add up eh... how frustrating

the hans was married in nebraska in 1952 you say.. If Lieselotte didnt come till 1960's then that surely wouldnt add to the mix.. must be a different hans or you have the wrong name for the husband.

did you try looking at NC genealogy for wildhagen?

Im thinking.. im thinking..

[lillith666]

gosh i know my brain is just smoking here!!! lol. the mans son called me lastnite and said that his dad worked at a packing plant in omaha for 13 years around the time lieselotte came over and there were tons of illegal polish immigrants working there at the time so his theory is that perhaps a polish or german man stole his id to gain citizenship and married her as well? thats all he could come up with. the name hans wildhagen was given to my mothers sister from the us or german consolate one i cant remember for sure, when she was young she wasnted to find her and her adoptive dad helped her contact the consolate and they told her lieselotte came over here sometime in the 60s and was married to a hans wildhagen. i will call all of those cemeteries today and see if i get anywhere with them. but i had not thought of the fact that she didnt have any kids with the guy then there wouldnt be a need for a obit. i dont know about there but here almost everyone has one in the paper so i thought it was strange. the only other thing i can come up with is perhaps the hans she was married to was from germany as well and maybe he went back over there after she died or sdomething and thats why i cant find him in the ssdi? im really hoping this isnt a case where the guy stole the other guys name and identiity to gain legal citezenship cause if thats the case ill never find out who he was! just when i think i am getting somewhere i hit a brick wall.

[lillith666]

i called and called and i finally found it! the funeral home that burried her gave me all the info!!!!!! and i found out the hubbys name was charles h wildhagen so he must have gone by his middle name which was most likey hans!! and i got the names of all 3 living daughters here in the usa! i am in the process of searching for them now. she had 1 son who died in the same year she did but a month earlier. i verified the ss number and birth dates and all its her i cant wait to get in touch with the daughters their names are karin monteith and monika wildhagen in florida and another one named rita gilley in norfolk! oooooooooh i am so excited i cant believe i finally found out something more than a name i also found my gr grandparents names they were august lutter and maria lutter. i did find that hse was divorced from charles h wildhagen. at the time of her death. WOW i cant belive i finally found something.

[6boysrus]

I AM SO GLAD FOR YOU!!!

I knew that the name had to be wrong!! None of it made sense!!!

WOW do keep me posted as to how this is all going and what you find out!! YOu can pm me if you want!

This is terrific..!!!!!!

I pray now that the family will be responsive and that you and mom and aunt can finally have some answers!

God Bless sweetie! Keep me posted!
Yvonne

[lillith666]

well its still wierd! i talked to the daughter and she had no idea her mother had 2 other shildren she gave up but hse was told her mothers husband was her father until she was 18 and then found out he wasnt and there is no father oon her bc either and she was born in the same city as my mother. she is going to send me pics of lieselotte. she was really in shock as was i to finally find someone thats actually related to me. so apparently lieselotte never told anyone about my mother or her sister she gave up so no one knows who the father was this lady doesnt even know who her father was just that he was in the military. lieselotte never told her who he was. so either lieselotte liked military men or they have the same father my mom was born in 56 and she was born in 58 and the other daopted girl was born in like 55 or 54 i cant remember now. i am really happy to have found someone but just by talking with her she didnt have a very good life. and thats sad.

[6boysrus]

Oh my, your're right it doesnt sound very promising.

But at least you have some more information and it looks as if this sister is willing to help put the pieces together.

Looks like your grandmother took things to the grave and perhaps no one will ever know the real truth of the matter.

On the other hand..at least now perhaps the sisters would like to get together.. perhaps someday too a dna test can be taken to determine if they all have the same fathers.

What a story..