[questioning]

OK, so now we have our son (yay!) we are getting a few more bits of information that we will need to eventually share with him, I'm just wondering about people's take or advice on this kind of thing.

Our Little Man's birth mother made a plan for adoption for him, after having two previous children which she is not raising. The older child is being raised by grandparents, we have met them, they are really happy to have met us we think and the older child asked "grandpa, can't we take the baby?" and he said "no sweetie we're too old for a baby" and the whole, why was Little Man placed, and why not with family, is a fairly straightforward story to tell - both at a young age and I think also when he is older.

But the second child was removed by CPS at birth, in both the 2nd child and Little Man there was drug use, we got back some results today which show it was more extensive than birth mom reported to us, and than tests showed during pregnancy, so how do you explain to a child that his birth mom (who, we are hoping, will meet him again, hopefully several times), used drugs that could have been very dangerous to him, while she was pregnant with him?

We also have the birth father issue - he has contacted birth mom a couple of times since Little Man was born to ask how he is, which is something we can tell him at least, but he refused either to make a plan to care for Little Man OR to sign TPR "unless I get money like she got money" (given the circumstances, he needed to make a care plan if he wanted custody or if he wanted a family member to raise Little Man - which he hasn't). And he shouted at birth mom that it wasn't fair that she "got money".

We paid birth mom's rent during the latter part of the pregnancy, so that she would be safe, because she was very much not safe before that.

Obviously we hope that birth father will want to have contact of some kind, we send photos to the agency for birth mom monthly at the moment (we have more contact than that, but that's in our agency contract) and we have sent photos for him too. But what do you say to a child, both a younger child and then when he is older, when they ask what about their birth dad? I don't really want to "leave it till they ask" because it's not the kind of thing you want a child to find out from someone else.

Obviously you do not say "your birth mother used drugs while she was pregnant and then your birth father shouted at your birth mother to say he should get 'paid' too", to a four year old. You can say "your birth mom knew she could not care for you and she also knew that her mom and dad couldn't, so she made a plan to find a forever family for you". And you can say "we did not meet your birth dad but we know he checked you were OK when he called your birth mom".

But equally, other birth family members, and his own hospital records, will tell him this information, when he is an adult, or old enough to read the records himself.

[Fran27]

I read some advice in Adoptive Families that made a lot of sense... they said everything should be told when the kids are 11-12. By then they can process information well, and it will be usually be taken better than if you wait until they are teens.

Probably not helping much, but I figured I'd throw it out there.

[Linny]

I may not be in the majority of opinions about this, but here's my take:

First, why would you want to be involved with bios who were/ (are still?) dealing with drugs, etc. I understand having information for your little one, but will contact with bios be something that's truly 'beneficial' to him...especially at a young age???

Secondly, the info you have is (sadly) not uncommon anymore in terms of prenatal drug use. In fact, sad to say, it's prety common anymore. I know in our own family, there are situations where pre-natal drug use was done and the family is very open/frank about it. Why not,....the biological parents did what they chose to do---we'll not make any excuse about it, nor sugarcoat it in any way. The best thing *they* did, was make that adoption plan and not abort when they could have. I"m not saying you're sugar-coating in any way.....I'm just saying there are some adoptive parents who will try to make biological parents look good, regardless of what their choices were---even those that harmed the child. We won't do that. Our children know/will know the facts. They then can decide what they will about the biological connections in their lives.

We don't have open adoptions...and with some of the biological parents of our children, we'd never agree to it either. If you feel very strongly about having that open-ness, please be sure you've considered that once the open-ness is achieved, it can be very difficult to go backward in terms of more privacy to your child and your family.

Your child will grow up understanding everything you 'know' as long as you present it frankly and honestly at age appropriate times. This also means you'll not side-step issues as they arise (ie, problems with learning due to drug use and *why* that drug use was done). Our motto around here is 'I'll tell you any/everything you want to know that *I* know about. When you are older and if you want to search...we will be there to help you completely.'

Sincerely,

Linny

[questioning]

The contact with birth mom will be including the sensible, non-drug-using, birth GPs. And I actually think it's worth at least trying to have contact with even a birth parent that has a messy life (even if they are not using drugs, it would be possible for a relative to be completely unreliable about contact, anyway). We will be doing approximately annual visits to the state he was born in, and we won't be building up visits with birth mom, if they happen, they happen. She has also asked to have phone calls, and as his birthday is right around Christmas, we have said that we will have phone calls in the summer (and we'll do photos for Christmas/birthday), to avoid disappointment if he's expecting her to call for his birthday, and she doesn't. If she never shows or calls, he'll at least get to see where he was born, and it will be part of his life, and it seems fairly likely he will meet birth GPs occasionally anyway.

I think this is better than him coming back in later life and asking why we kept his birth family from him. Birth mom says she is keen to have contact, birth grandparents are clearly keen and also likely will stick to it - they are quite apologetic about her!

Since I feel very strongly about having an open adoption, and what I've read shows it's best for kids (even if the birth family has a messy life), I'd rather hear advice from those who are positive towards this - hope that does not offend.

Fran, I read that article too, I kind of wish I'd read it in a couple of years time as I don't want to have to think about it now, and it's far too early for our Little Man, but it set me thinking.

[Mama2Gia]

I think the generic "they couldn't take care of you" response is the right one until they are of an age that can process the info. I think that is route we are going to take too.
We also will maintain contact with a birth father whose life is still "messy" and we do it for the future. He will not have contact with our daughter until he is either clean and healthy or until she is an age where she wants to and we feel it is appropriate. We will send him letters and pictures and asked that he keep us in the loop if he moves.

We have contact with her mom too. Her mom is currently doing amazing but even if she fell off the wagon we would most likely not cut off contact because- like you- we have contact with grandparents. Even when mom was using she could pull herself together for visits. Its kinda the way I feel about a relative or two at holidays that go a little hard on the wine- I would not want my child being raised by that person but I do not think that contact with them is damaging under my watchful eye (followed by age appropriate explanations.)

I dread telling her about what her mother did to her in the womb. But we HAVE to. They are so much more predisposed to having addiction issues. My partner said it to her when she was 10 days old and I brought her home from the hospital- "you have already done your share of drugs and you are in recovery from now until the end" It wasn't funny (well it shouldn't have been anyway) but at her first birthday my brother wondered if it was also her "one year clean and sober" day. Anyway I hope when my daughter learns of her mom's struggle with addiction she can look at her hopefully still sober birth mom and respect what she has done since. That she can be proud of her and the relationship she is able to have with her because even though it was too late to prevent my daughter's drug exposure, she did find help.

[parenting-over-40]

The Queen came to me at 4 weeks of age heavily exposed to drugs. That being said, she has always known that birth Mom could not keep her safe & so I was asked to keep her safe. As she is getting older she has asked what birth Mom did. I told her she took some bad medicine when the Queen was in her tummy. The Queen is now 4.

[portlowski]

The reality of adoption is that every adoptive parent faces some version of this dilemma. Because there is always a reason that a parent did not raise a child and instead that child was adopted. In my child's case, his birth mom was very young, had some mental health issues (which she is open about so no breach of confidentiality there) and felt she was not healthy enough and ready enough to raise him. I owe my child one thing--the truth. But I also owe him a childhood free of undue worry. So I will give him the truth as I know it in increments that he can understand, increments that are age appropriate. I cannot promise him a life free of pain. I cannot promise that his aoption will not cause him worry or sadness or grief or suffering. I can promise to let him know as much of his story as I know, and a soft place to land as he discovers how to integrate the truth into who he is becoming. Because we are in an open adoption as he grows up he will be able to talk to his birth mom directly about his birth story and adoption story.

[OakShannon]

Originally Posted by portlowski

The reality of adoption is that every adoptive parent faces some version of this dilemma. Because there is always a reason that a parent did not raise a child and instead that child was adopted. In my child's case, his birth mom was very young, had some mental health issues (which she is open about so no breach of confidentiality there) and felt she was not healthy enough and ready enough to raise him. I owe my child one thing--the truth. But I also owe him a childhood free of undue worry. So I will give him the truth as I know it in increments that he can understand, increments that are age appropriate. I cannot promise him a life free of pain. I cannot promise that his aoption will not cause him worry or sadness or grief or suffering. I can promise to let him know as much of his story as I know, and a soft place to land as he discovers how to integrate the truth into who he is becoming. Because we are in an open adoption as he grows up he will be able to talk to his birth mom directly about his birth story and adoption story.

I think this is really, really well said.

What we have told our son so far is that his birthmom was too sick to take care of a baby. (Our son just turned 4.) He's asked me if she is still sick and we told him that yes, she is. We have not yet talked in detail about the issue of drug addiction, but we will. Like Mama2Gia, our concern regarding his genetic predisposition to addiction will ensure that we have some frank talks about this as he gets older.

But we also have contact with our son's birth grandma. (He calls her Nana.) We talk frequently on the phone and text almost daily. We visited her for the first time last month and they are coming to visit us in March. As in your case, his grandma is a very stable and caring person who really wants to be part of his life. We didn't open his adoption until last summer so we're behind you in that respect. But we fully intend for his Nana have a full grandparent role in D's life. She is also raising our son's older brother and we want D to grow up having a strong relationship with his him as well. One thing I am very grateful for is that D's Nana has a much clearer picture of his birthmom's history and she can fill in details and answer questions that I simply couldn't without her. It seems like she's done a very good job of helping D's brother process that information and I know she'll be a good resource for D.

[Dickons]

What mom and dad did was to add information to the story at age appropriate times.

Your mother could not take care of you

Your mother wasn't married to your father so could not take care of you

Your mother wasn't married to your father and society frowned on unwed mothers so she could not take care of you

Re the second child. from your mother could not care - to - your mother was going through a rough patch - to your mother did some things she most likely regrets when she was going through the rough patch...

Did that make sense? By the time we were around 10 we knew all the reasons and details of the stories the SW gave to mom and dad...

*obviously there are more details I was just showing the progression in filling in the details as I grew older. I didn't think they were omitting details at any stage it was just more explanation.

Kind regards,
Dickons

[crick]

I think generic only takes one so far and then you do have to get down to certain details - even if they cause some pain.

Kids are smart and if there is more to their placement than the basic "bmom wasn't ready to parent and made an adoption plan", then we get into shaky ground.
My ds was around 10-11 when he wanted us to stop telling him the "they loved you but couldn't care for you" b.s. Because bottom line is to a kid, a parent just doesn't do that to their child if they really love them. For my son, it really angered him and asked us to stop telling him those lines. We did, and despite going through some things, it was a better way for him.

So really, the best advice I have on this is listen to your kid and take their cues as to how the information is given to them. What works for one, might not be as well received by the other. Just take it as it comes and know that we won't necessarily do it perfectly or the "plan" might change 10 times over, but that's ok!

[questioning]

Thanks everyone so much for your replies. Very very wise as usual! Interesting that crick's DS was also around 10-11 when he started wanting more detailed information.

[KarenInCa]

Personally, I think I WOULD wait till he asks. Until then he is not old enough to process that harsh of information. Unless you tell other people who would be so uncaring as to tell him, who would "tell him" otherwise? It's no one else's business. Are you concerned his b-family will tell him about his bparent's past/present use and attitudes? If you are, I would disassociate with b-family as well. I would never put my child in a position of being around someone I cannot trust with her personal information.
You tell him he is adopted, and you tell him things as he can handle it.
My DD knows she was adopted (always has), she knows that she was raised for 17 months by a nanny in an orphanage. She knows there are still children in the orphanage who she started with, and that some will never find a family. She's now 7 years old, and she only knew she was with her nanny for the first part of her life until she was 5. When she was 5 she learned more....that she was in an orphanage, because she was ready for that. At 6 she learned that her birth parents could not give her the care they wanted for her, so they let the orphanage take care of her till we could come get her. And at 7, now, she knows that her b-mother had to leave her somewhere abandoned, in order for her to go to the orphanage, and that she might have been one of the children left without a family.
She knows about the one child policy, which she is very mad about, in China. She thinks it's very unfair that China decided that her birth parents could only have one child. BUT she still doesn't know that it's possible she was abandoned because she is a girl, and NOT because she was the second child born to her birth parents. That's a biggie, and it's possible someone might tell her before we do, that this is a possible scenario, and the most likely one...But she's not mentally or emotionally ready for that part of the story yet. That kind of rejection or feeling of being unwanted just for being born a girl, is not something she needs to know yet. When she is old enough for her peers to be educated about it, then so will she, and then we will discuss it. Perhaps a little before her peers catch on. But right now, at 7, it would do nothing but shatter her. Timing is everything.

[questioning]

Some types of information children are likely to ask about - e.g. what about my birth father - at the point when they realise that most children have a biological father and mother. Some types of information they would only know about if a) we told them b) someone else told them or c) they read it in their own medical records.

However I know from adult adoptees that older children can feel very pressurised not to ask about their birth family, or not to ask more about their birth family - for fear of appearing disloyal, because they think their aparents know best and would tell them if they need to know. Children can ask awkward random questions but they can also pick up on what people don't want to talk about, and feel shy of asking.

I would much rather he hears from us what is in his medical records than reads them when he is 18 and wonders why we were hiding this. Or, and hopefully it won't come to this, but if it does, asks us why he has problems learning things that other children learn easily, if we denied that it could even possibly have to do with drugs, and he finds out later it could - how would that make him feel?

So though I totally agree that timing is everything, if there is information out there, we are the ones who should give it to him, he shouldn't find it out from random other people.

[AlabamaMommy]

We are in the same boat - Our son was #3 but the bparents kept the other 2. Mom OD'd and died 9 mo ago. BDad is heavily involved in drugs/jail and want's no contact. (whew)

BUT he deserves to know. We have written everything down for him for when he asks. I don't want to forget anything. But I am very careful what I write for him. I didn't write "your bmom was a druggie who od'd on drugs." Instead, I put, "Your bmom was a sweet, beautiful young lady that made some unfortunate choices. Drugs are the devil and can make people do things that are outside of their nature. Your Bdad loved you enough to make an adoption plan, but when he made a choice to experiment with drugs, they took over all of his life. He is missing a great joy in not knowing you. We hope one day he will be healthy enough to have a relaionship with you."

We also have the burden of explaining that they tried to abort him twice. Yes, it is a hard topic, but we know this is a huge part of his testimony and his story. So we word it as "your bparents were in a very difficult place. They had no money, they were addicted to drugs, and they had no family support. They were desperate. They didn't know you, but they knew they couldn't care for another baby. Abortion was a desperate choice that God protected you from. Once they met you, they knew that God had a purpose for you and they were sorry for what they considered."

I believe he DESERVES to know his story. But it is equally important that he sees his story from the positive side of the coin. I loved his birthmom and I feel so cheated that he will never know her. I never want to be the one who creates drama where there should be none. What happened in their lives created the loving, sweet, amazing, intellegent baby I call my son.

[KarenInCa]

Originally Posted by questioning

Some types of information children are likely to ask about - e.g. what about my birth father - at the point when they realise that most children have a biological father and mother. Some types of information they would only know about if a) we told them b) someone else told them or c) they read it in their own medical records.

However I know from adult adoptees that older children can feel very pressurised not to ask about their birth family, or not to ask more about their birth family - for fear of appearing disloyal, because they think their aparents know best and would tell them if they need to know. Children can ask awkward random questions but they can also pick up on what people don't want to talk about, and feel shy of asking.

I would much rather he hears from us what is in his medical records than reads them when he is 18 and wonders why we were hiding this. Or, and hopefully it won't come to this, but if it does, asks us why he has problems learning things that other children learn easily, if we denied that it could even possibly have to do with drugs, and he finds out later it could - how would that make him feel?

So though I totally agree that timing is everything, if there is information out there, we are the ones who should give it to him, he shouldn't find it out from random other people.

ABSOLUTELY! APs should always keep the communication lines open. They should let the child know that it's safe to ask questions, and to talk about their bparents, and to have feelings for their bparents. DD asks about her birth parents often, and tries to put into words that she wishes she did not have to be adopted...I've made sure she knows those are OK feelings to have, and that I understand her feelings, and I am not offended, jealous, nor shut down to those feelings.

But what I am saying is not "don't tell" I'm saying, there is no way he will know this stuff until you tell him, unless he is around others who know his personal information. It's possible he won't be slower than other children when it comes to learning. It's also possible that if he is slower than other children, that it might have NOTHING to do with the drugs his bmother was using while pregnant, unless there's an obvious genetic link, such as FAS and her drinking in-vitro. He can have a number of learning disabilities completely unassociated with her drug use, and then again, they could be. But the fact is, unless it's obvious, you will never know, so I would personally treat any learning disabilities as just that...a learning disability, unless I knew 100% that it was associated with drug ingestion.

My son has dyslexia. I also have dyslexia. I did him a disservice by telling him I have dyslexia when he was growing up. I say that because knowing so allowed him to stop trying so hard to do better. When I was a child, no one really knew what dyslexia was, so I tried really hard to get Bs and Cs, and I usually got low Bs. When my son found out that he has dyslexia, and that it was inherited, many times he did work harder to get his grades up, but IMO, this knowledge also allowed him to not try so hard, because he could be lazy with his homework, and blame it on the dyslexia. He was able to use it as a crutch. I would have still dealt with the dyslexia, but I'm not so sure I would have gone about it the same way, if I could do it again.

Aside from being 18 and finding out the information from records, you will know when to tell him these things. Telling him that his birth father decided not to parent, and his birth father wanted money to sign TPR are two different things. IMO, I would not tell him about his bfather's attitude about TPR. I'm still not sure that telling him that his birth father wanted money to TPR is going to be a necessary piece of the story...ever, unless he asks, when he's an adult. It's not something he would find out in the medical records, is it? IMO that kind of info would not be relevant to any part of his adoption story, except to say that he meant nothing at all to his birth father. And it certainly would not help him feel complete.

My bio-son is now 28 years old, and found his bio-dad on FB. His bio-dad told him that I kept him from seeing him all those years, so it was then, that I had to tell him the "real" story behind his father not visiting him since he was 5 years old. Until then, I gave him only positive information about his birth father. There was no need to tell him otherwise. And when it came time for him to hear what his birth father had to say, he was able to tell his birth father that I never said anything negative about him..therefore he was able to hear it from me, and process what I was telling him at 28 yo, much easier than if I had told him the negative things when he was growing up. KWIM? (obviously this is a different situation than being adopted, and what your son will struggle with, but it's a similar example of choosing what to and what not to tell my son until he was much older)

Perhaps I read the original post wrong, and you are not intending to ever talk to your son about bio-dad's attitude toward TPR. Some facts are important, and some facts -the facts having to do with the bparents negative attitudes especially, serve little to no purpose ever...unless the child (or adult child) finds a need to know...My son is not adopted, however, his bio father stopped visitation when he was 5 years old. For my son, he had to be in his 20s before he could really process the negative attitude of his biofather. And I think it was better for him NOT to know the really bad and the ugly sides of his biofather until then. It served no purpose in his life, to make him a better person, before then. And he did not regret not knowing the really bad side of his bio father before then, IMO.

I'm kind of thinking out loud, so I might be completely wrong about the info of your child's bio parents. Parenting is a skill that sometimes is trial and error....and not everyone fits into the same box. Just my own perspective on it, from my own personal experiences. But I am not adopted, nor have I dealt with knowing my DDs birth mother used harsh drugs while pregnant, so unless I am in your shoes, I can't really say what is right or wrong. I'm just going off of my gut feelings.