[MunchkinMom]

We are prospective adoptive parents, currently working with a referral service. The referral service has a situation where the birth mother is in Georgia, but the adoption (which will take place in Georgia) will be governed by Utah law, via Mother Goose Adoptions.

We live in Wisconsin, the adoption would take place in Georgia, and the adoption would be governed by Utah law. A tri-state adoption. My understanding is that this results in more paperwork. Is it riskier? Is it advisable?

Also, does anyone have any experience with Mother Goose Adoptions?

Thanks for your help!
Elizabeth

[Magic_Hat]

Our last adoption was similar. We are in MD, baby was born in PA. The agency is in PA but they are also licensed in NJ. They used NJ law since it is considered more beneficial to the birth parents and the adoptive parents. It meant that we had to do 3 part ICPC paperwork which took a few days longer. Luckily all three states were fairly quick with ICPC-we were in PA only 2 full weeks but were told it could be 3. The attorney at the agency said there was a slight legal risk and if the birth parents wanted to, they could get an attorney and try to fight it (I can't explain exactly why though, sorry). They weren't in any position to parent though because CPS was involved so the risk was very slight but we had to sign a waiver saying we understood there was a risk. We are a little more than halfway to finalization and have had visits with the birth family and so far no problems. I think the risk probably depends on the situation. And it was a little easier because MD/PA and NJ are geographically pretty close to each other.

Good luck!

[Dickons]

MunchinMom,

Welcome to the forum. There are many adoptive parents who will be willing to share their knowledge on the best way to ensure the adoption is done properly and ethically but it's Halloween so the forum is very quiet. If you have not had several responses by Monday just reply to this message to bring it up to the top of the list.

If you don't mind my asking, why would you go through an agency in Utah when neither you or the expectant mother live in that state? Does the expectant father live in Utah?

Kind regards,
Dickons

[MunchkinMom]

Thank you, both of you, for the info. I must say, the situation makes me nervous. Our profile has not yet been presented (we are weighing right now whether we want it presented in this situation), and I'm having second thoughts.

Dickons, regarding your last question... After waiting with an agency in Georgia for a Georgia baby for some time, we decided to branch out a bit and use a referral service. This referral service has connections with agencies all over the country. This situation was recently presented to us, and I don't think any of the parties are in Utah. However, the agency has a branch office in Utah, and apparently for that reason, they are applying Utah law? I'm trying to figure all this out myself though, as this sort of a situation is very new to me. (For ten months now, we've thought we'd adopt a Georgia baby through an agency in Georgia--very clear-cut. Having branched out with the referral agency brings up a lot of questions that we didn't have previously.)

[Magic_Hat]

There's some info on the web about agencies using Utah law. Apparently it is very adoptive parent friendly but to the extreme and there is some controversy around it. Agencies will fly an emom out there just to give birth so they can use those laws.

Munchkin Mom, if it makes you uncomfortable in any way, maybe it's a good idea to pass on it.

[isitnaptime]

Are expectant moms only supposed to use an agency in their state? Just wondering, as long as they have recieved the proper counseling, what would be the harm (besides a long ICPC, which isn't of her concern when she is choosing an agency). It seems like many use some of the large national agencies that may not even have an office in their state, or even if they do, maybe not in their city.

For the same reasons we as PAPs choose agencies out of our state, she might not have found what she wanted close to her. Maybe she tried them and they were pressuring her, or didn't get her help. Who knows, maybe a friend used them and recommended them.

People ALWAYS tell PAPs not to just choose an agency in their state, so why would an expectant mom have to?

Also, back to the OPs question, is tri-state adoption legal? advisable? what are the risks? would you do it? Does it depend on the birthfather issue, if he will sign, etc?

[Dickons]

From what I have read there are some fundamental flaws in the adoption laws in Utah and I do not think that any prospective adoptive parents would be able to live their life knowing that things were not quite right or ethical in the adoption of the child they love.

As an adoptee I would hope prospective parents would say - not for me, all parties must be on board. I believe in adoption if it is done ethically and it may still be able to be done right in Utah but it would be up to you to ensure it was right. Perhaps the agency you are with already takes the right measures.

My understanding of the concerns with adoptions in Utah and please make sure my understandings are correct.

The expectant mother is not required to name the father even if there is no concern that the child was born of rape etc.

My concern:
As an adoptee this is appalling, hurtful and wrong and is also dangerous to the health of the adoptee that can impact the adoptee for life, not just childhood. From an ethical standpoint it just seems wrong.

The expectant father must register with the Utah putative fathers registry in a timely manner - regardless of what state he lives in, and the law presumes he knows the laws in Utah whether he lives there or not. There is also a concern with the notice placed in the paper but you would need to research that as well.

My concern:
The expectant mother can be flown to Utah, labor can be induced and baby born, sign the papers, fly home and the father is without recourse even when he can prove that he supported the mother (and even cohabitated with the mother) through her pregnancy, was willing and able to parent and support the child and was against the adoption.

The expectant mother can sign relinquishment papers 24 hours after birth and the agency can be the person she signs the papers in front of providing two other witnesses are there that are not birth family.

My Concern:
No one who just delivered a baby with her hormones in such a flux and without an unbiased third party presiding should be allowed to sign such a life altering document.

There is no revocation period. See comment above relating to how quickly and without an unbiased party present.

Kind regards,
Dickons

[MunchkinMom]

Thanks, everyone.

I am aware of the potential concerns and pitfalls with Utah laws. Thanks for the reminders. We'll take those into consideration as we make our decisions.

Having said that, I'm still wondering specifically about the tri-state adoption situation. Can anyone elaborate on Magic Hat's response regarding possibly greater legal risk?

Also, does anyone know anything -- good or bad -- about Mother Goose Adoptions?

Thanks!

Thanks!

[meghann]

I echo the concerns about Utah. It would be one thing if one or the other of you resided in the state, but since neither of you do the only reason I can see that an agency would want to use Utah's laws (I'm assuming they'd be flying e-mom to UT to give birth, since you can't just arbitrarily decide "We're going to be operating under the laws of X state") is that they are extremely (and controversially) restrictive to the birth parents' rights (regarding time frames/revocation/etc.). There are agencies that fly expectant mothers to Utah to give birth simply because those laws make it more likely that the adoption will go through (increasing their placement numbers/"satisfied customers") because once the papers are signed there is no recourse for the birth parents.

Frankly, I would steer clear of any agency that wanted me to operate under Utah law if neither I nor the expectant mother lived in Utah.

[Magic_Hat]

I just went and dug out some paperwork. I'll pm you.