[Fran27]

OK first off I'm not the most patient mom, I'm not planning on letting my kids walk all over me, I've done CIO at night and I don't pick up my kids every time they whine.

With that out of the way, I have absolutely no idea what to do about discipline. A good friend is telling me that her kids (one month older than mine, so 20 months) don't get away with anything, and that she yells at them, so they learn fast not to do something. Her theory is that she'd rather do it now so they learn manners quickly but won't remember it. Well, I also think that her kids are EASY.

But I don't want to yell at my kids. The only times I've got really mad (maybe twice since we got them, which I'm actually pretty proud of all things considered) and yelled at them, it did absolutely nothing anyway. DS understands 'no' but when he's really after something, he will keep doing it. DD totally ignores me.

Now, they're both in speech therapy and don't understand single commands (or they're pretending very well not to), so it's pretty pointless to tell them when they do wrong and why (I still do it, but yeah, pointless so far). People tell me to do time outs but we don't really have a spot for it, and I won't physically restrain them on my lap or in a corner because I don't think they would understand why and I think it would be cruel (again, in my circumstances, as they don't understand much).

So so far I've been pretty much doing what I do with my dog... I put them away from the situation, or put the item away, telling them why I'm doing it... which doesn't prevent them from doing it again (like when DS stands on the chair and I tell him to sit, he does it, but will stand again two seconds later, so I put him down, and two minutes later he's back standing on the chair...).

Thankfully my house is baby proofed (we move stuff out of their range every day still), and I don't leave them alone more than a minute if I can help it (from the time they climbed on my chair, the desk, and the window sill), but seriously, at this rate they are going to walk all over me and I just don't have any idea what I can do about it.

Any suggestion?

[aclee]

I'm in the same boat. I was a Nanny for 5 years, I have the "look", the "tone", the lingo...everything. Ty just about laughs in my face. I have never had a kid that started "from the ground up"...you know?

One of my biggest pet peeves is when I hear a parent tell a kid they are bad. I feel like "bad" is about the child, not the action. I will say "naughty" to Ty when he's doing something...ON PURPOSE...that he knows he's not supposed to do. Mike said bad to Ty once, and I explained how I felt, and he doesn't say it any more. So...ready for this? I have a toddler that can push my buttons to the Nth degree. He can read me like nothing I've ever seen or experienced before. He new "thing"...when he's knows he's doing something he's not supposed to do. He says, "Bad, bad" and points his chubby, adorable little finger to his chest. It makes me want to cry, and I'm sure I look horrified and he knows it gets to me. I've NEVER said bad to him, so we had no idea where he got it from, till genius Auntie Storm figured it out. The dogs! We point at them and say, "BAD!" sometimes when they steal a toy or whatever.

So...add that guilt right on top of everything else. Not only do I have to figure out how to disciple Ty, but I have to realize that how I discipline my dogs impacts him too.

I'm going to go take a time out.

[Stormster]

If I were you I'd learn to get very very tough. You don't need to raise your voice. You can use a combination of intimidation tactics LOL

To heck with unconditional parenting. It doesn't work with my kid.

Last night I had our entire playdate stay for the most beautiful dinner (fool that i am) and he literally tantrumed for a half hour and then spit his food.....giant mouthfuls of tortellini and cheese and sauce in little mountains on the floor (if he wasn't busy smashing his toys into the walls)....i had to eventually put him in his crib and the walls were shaking he tantrummed so hard. FOR A HALF HOUR.

When the company left (early i might add) I flipped out. I literally shouted(ish) "you little monster.....clean up this mess!" (the toys, books, food, magic marker on floors...) and i meant BUSINESS. After a few 'i'm going to count to threes" and yes a mean stare he literally cleaned the house. (yep he sponges and wipes the floors, puts away his toys and books at 26 months!) He's like a Border Collie (don'tflame) but he's so smart and such a natural worker he really needs "tasks" or he goes crazy!

I'm not kidding.

And then I got cuddles for an hour. Yep you parent the kid you've got. My kid needs a drill sargeant.

see what they respond to and do WHATEVER IT TAKES or they will destroy you and everything you own!!!!!

[aclee]

There is a parenting philosophy that says that kids need a job. As much as possible I try to do that for Ty...but once he realizes that I want him to put all the wet stuff in the dryer, he throws it on the floor and jumps on it...

I'm totally serious...positive reinforcement is the anti-behavior tool at my house. If he's walking and holding my hand, and I say, "Good hand holding!" He either sits down, screams, or demands to be carried. If I don't carry him, he goes gumbi. So if he's holding my hand and walking along...I don't say a word.

[jalapeno]

Everytime I start to feel like I've got a handle on discipline, some new challenge presents itself. Lately my DD has been such a handful. Today I found her in the bathroom dumping liquid soap into the toilet paper roll dispenser and then smearing the stuff that oozed out all over. It's not the first time. So even though she's been potty trained for a year, I feel like now I can't let her go potty on her own. I am not the most patient person either. I've definitely made mistakes with my DD in the discipline department because I get so frustrated with her. She's the oldest so some of her behaviors just take me off guard when they first show up. But she's teaching me to be more patient! LOL

I didn't start time outs with my boys until they were about 22 months old respectively. And didn't do them all that consistently until they were each about 2. I started timeouts earlier with my DD because I could - I only had one of her to chase after when she repeatedly left time out. It took a lot of work the first few times with each of my kids. I used to count how many times I would have to put a child back before they'd stay for the whole minute. I think the record was somewhere in the 80's. My time out spot is just one of the kitchen chairs turned around to face away from the table. It's not isolated but it keeps them from playing. It works just fine.

Other discipline techniques we started early were saying "sorry" when they hurt somebody, picking up something that they've thrown, losing a toy that they're mishandling, and of course being removed from the area. Options are pretty limited that young.

I also pick certain things to really focus on. I have zero tollerance for hitting etc for example. I'm a lot more lenient when it comes to messes, giving plenty of warnings and extra chances. Because those just aren't a discipline priority for me now.

You'll get a handle on it. It sometimes just takes a little bit to adjust as a parent.

[Nevada Jen]

If you have not read 123 Magic, I think its a great book. We used it religiously for DD and the habits of the correct way to do time outs and control behavior were kind of ingrained with DS. Pretty sure yelling at kids is not an acceptable method of behaior alteration but what do I know.

DS was very physically advanced and I swear it was somewhat of a curse. Now I know why babies with no brain power should not have the power to walk and climb. You can't discipline them until their nitelligence catches up to their physical abilities. Until then, all you can do is control the physical abilities. As in, remove them from the situation. DS was a holy terror from 9 months to about 18 months. No amount of proper discipline could stop him because he really could not understand. (My best example is that he really liked to climb the inside of the fire place--no matter how many times I told him no and pulled him away, he would do it again until I finally got smart enough to put a screen in front of it).

They are still very young. You will see a huge leap in brain power in the next 6 months and discipline will work much better. For now, try picking your top two intolerable behaviors and figure out how to control those effectively. Let the rest go.

Hang in there. There is a reason they call them the terrible two's!

[CaddoRose]

Two books for you: "123 Magic" and "Love and Logic". Our DD is now 26 months old and we got her when she was 18 months. I have been completely consistent since day one. I don't yell or argue. Any spot can be a naughty spot for time out. It doesn't matter where it is. I have one spot in our home, but if necessary I can use any where at any time if we are out of the house. Naughty spot never goes away.

My philosophy is that when I say "no" I mean it and my children will do as I say for their safety. If I say no and the child continues they are removed from what they were trying to do and placed in time out. I have literally taken my child into time out over 20 times until they finally sat there.

Now 7 months later when I say stop, she stops. I only have to count to 1 now and the behavior stops. Before, it was all the way to 3 and then into time out or bed. Huge strides have been made and at 26 months she can walk with me in a store and not try to pull things off the shelves or run around like a wild child. Giving her a "look" for some things can stop her too.

[aclee]

I would strongly suggest that if you use 1,2, 3 Magic that you don't use 1, 2, 3 for anything else. I have always used 1, 2, 3 with children I was a Nanny for. Unfortunately, DH grabs Ty by the hands and says, 1, 2, WEEEEE! and throws Ty up in the air. Now I will look at Ty sternly and say, 1...2...and he jumps in the air and yells WEEEEE! It sort of ruins the effect of any discipline...

[Amber76]

I tried the 1-2-3 thing with DS this week. As soon as I said 1, he grinned great big and said, "2, 3! Yea, Mama!" I don't think that method is going to work for us since I can't keep a straight face when he does that. Who knew my 17 month old can count? What does work is removing him from the situation, making him sit for a minute, taking the toy or object if he's hitting with it, or distracting him with something else. Of course, so far most of his behavior issues have been immediately before nap or bedtime, so I try to keep those times highly structured since I know he's prone to a melt down then. I think what works is so varied depending on the kids that it's hard to say what will work for any one child, let alone both twins!

[Stormster]

Originally Posted by Amber76

I tried the 1-2-3 thing with DS this week. As soon as I said 1, he grinned great big and said, "2, 3! Yea, Mama!" I don't think that method is going to work for us since I can't keep a straight face when he does that. Who knew my 17 month old can count? What does work is removing him from the situation, making him sit for a minute, taking the toy or object if he's hitting with it, or distracting him with something else. Of course, so far most of his behavior issues have been immediately before nap or bedtime, so I try to keep those times highly structured since I know he's prone to a melt down then. I think what works is so varied depending on the kids that it's hard to say what will work for any one child, let alone both twins!

Amber he's too young! We had the SAME thing and my very strong little boy reacted the same way at that age and now at 26 months i can't think of one instance it DOESN'T work. (as long as we are alone and there arent' too many distractions)

I prefer doing it before Time Outs. I hate the drama of Time Outs with him and there is an awful lot of physical craziness with him that just feels really icky for me. I'd rather he be given the opportunity to get control over his own body before wrestling him into a time out.

If your son is like mine ....from Jr. Toddler to age 2.5 he did really well with consistency, repetition and little slogans (we sit in the chair, we stand on the FLOOR!) getting down low and looking into his eyes.

Now it's trickier, and he's stronger If my kid wasn't so darn CUTE and CHARMING I'd be a goner!

[Fran27]

The problem for us is still finding a place for time outs. My kids don't stay in place, and as I said, I don't want to have to force them to stay in place (plus what am I supposed to do if they are both doing something wrong???). Maybe when they're older and actually understand what we are saying.

[Stormster]

Fran no kid that i know will sit still right away for a Time Out. You have to keep putting them back, over and over and over.

Which is why i hate them. My 29 lbs of muscle boy is a nightmare to put in time out. Eventually he does it but I am a wreck by then!

[OakShannon]

It's such a roller coaster with toddlers, isn't it?! I feel like someone just handed David a manual on the terrible two's and he said, "Oh wow! I've been way too easy on these people! Okay, here I go!" Lately, our issue is the flying toys. Sometimes I don't even know what he's frustrated about. He'll just be sitting and playing and then suddenly he'll fling! And the toys go flying. Yesterday, in the span of about 15 minutes, I'd taken away his blocks, his trains, his Fisher Price people and some tupperware he'd been playing with. Sometimes, it's a test. He'll look at me out of the corner of his eye, and start by dropping the toys. Then he'll drop them a little more forcefully, but not quite throwing yet. Until he's finally reached actual throwing. Then he wails like I'm killing him when I take the toy away. Repeat. Repeat. Repeat. I was so ready for bedtime last night.

Fran, David went through the obsession stage, too. His thing was the stereo. COULD NOT leave it alone. I would remove him from it 100x a day - no kidding. We still have it covered so he can't get to it, but he's lost interest now. Climbing on the kitchen chairs and coffee table was another fixation we went through. I just couldn't leave him for a second during that period because he felt a driving need to climb the furniture. He doesn't fixate like that anymore. So maybe it's a phase? Wish I could tell you that I found the magic solution - we tried several things - but I think he just outgrew it.

I've never noticed that time outs do a thing to help with David. Taking toys away that he misuses seems to work better because I know he gets the connection between throwing the toys and losing the toys. Or blowing bubbles in his water and losing his water. Or hitting and having to leave the play area. The very fact that he's testing tells me that he gets it and he's waiting for the reaction. The thing with David is that I have to be very consistent. EVERY time, he gets the same reaction. I use a serious face and a firm voice, but I don't yell. To me, yelling signals a loss of control in the adult. I want David to know that mommy is in charge and he can't get a big reaction like that. I also feel strongly that we should model the behavior that we want our kids to use. I don't yell because I don't want him to think that yelling at people is acceptable.

On the suggestion of an early childhood teacher, I used to do time-outs with David on my lap. She thought this worked best with young toddlers. I would hold him gently but firmly facing away from me for a count of about 30. He knew the difference between a cuddle and time out. Then, before getting down, I would repeat what I wanted him to do. No stereo. Or feet on the floor. Like I said, I never noticed that it stopped the behavior. But other parents said it helped with their kids, so I guess it's worth a try.

Aclee - Oy. What a little character! But you know, if he can direct that determination, there's going to be no end to what he can accomplish!

[aclee]

I had a real epiphany moment yesterday about just how much kids this age really understand, when they want to. Ty has always been a complete bear when he wakes from his last nap of the day. I don't know why, and I've tried a million things to help him, but nothing works but sitting and holding him. It's not blood sugar...I just don't know what it is. He just sits and cries if I don't hold him. He's lately decided that getting his diaper changed after that nap (which almost always ends with a poop) is horrific and he cries, screams and fights me the whole time. Yesterday, as I was holding him next to the changing table, he started to cry and I was giving him a big snuggle, trying to talk him down and I said, "Tyler, Mommy's going to change your bum, fast as can be so you are all comfy and then we can go lay on the couch and snuggle and watch TV...is that what you want? We'll lay on the couch and watch TV, just you and Mommy (Matty was sleeping)?" I'll be darned if he didn't look me right in the eye and say, "Yeah" and then when I laid him down he was good as gold while I changed his bum. Then when I put him down he ran right over and climbed up on the couch...

Later in the day, I said, "I want you to look at me" (as he was being naughty) and he stopped and looked right at me, I gave him the correction, and he knew exactly what I was saying and had his tantrum.

So I KNOW the comprehension is there...clearly he understands a lot more than I give him credit for...

Oak...sometimes we make jokes about Tyler referencing Star Wars. We aren't big fans or anything, but he often seems to struggle with going to the "dark side" with his powers

[ChromaKelly]

I did Time Outs in the crib at that age. I know some people freak and say they will then associate the crib with negativity, well they didn't. One minute for age, so 90 seconds at the age yours are. That was usually enough for them to get the idea that they did something unacceptable and for me to cool down for a minute.

I really had the toughest time with my twins from 12 mos until they really got some vocabulary and could understand me. Until then, it was remove and redirect. No was often met with laughter. It will get better, I promise!

I did use 123 Magic, but it really doesn't work well until age 2. And you have to be super consistent with it (I'm guilty of trying to avoid the time out because at least at this age, it's met with tons of drama!).