[mandiedandie]

So for anyone familiar with our match from my previous posting "can cps refuse birthmother the right to adoption?", that issue has been resolved and CPS said they will not interfere and they aren't even allowed to discuss the adoption with emom. Okay, great, resolved. New issue, and I'll try not to get too much into details:

The past few weeks, our contact and communication with emom has changed. At first, it was just her not communicating at all with us on Myspace (which she used to always write back on). Then the sonogram appt was soon approaching and she has twice brought it up on her own and invited us and asked if we still wanted to go, and we said, "of course we do, but that's only if you're comfortable with it." and she said she still was and it would be in the next couple of weeks and would let us know. So then about 3 weeks ago now, we called her to talk and also asked about when the appt would be. She was still pretty upbeat and "normal" with us, and said she didn't know when it was, but she'd call one of her caseworkers the next day to find out. She also said that she was on her way to visit her on-again boyfriend (the father of this baby).

That made us a little nervous, because he wanted her to give the baby to his parents in the beginning or have her try to raise the baby. When he was out of the picture for reasons I'd rather not say, she was all for this and saying things to us like, "I'm taking care of your baby, I'm eating healthy..." "This is your baby..." "(boyfriend) and I have already decided that you and R will be the parents of this baby and we don't understand why (cps) is trying to do this. It pisses me off that they're messing with your guy's life like this. Don't worry, no matter what, this is your baby.." And to this, we've really not said much, because we don't want to assume that this will, in fact, be our baby, or make her think that we already think this baby is "ours". So, we've rarely brought up the subject of the baby and let her lead the way on this when she was comfortable. We've really put the focus on her, the things she is dealing with, and trying to be supportive of her. We call maybe twice a week (or text once and call once) and she's always sounded so happy to talk with us, so we never assumed she needed space or that we needed to back off. We've also let her know before that if she needed space, just let us know, we understand, and she responded with "oh no, nothing like that!"

Okay, sorry, a little off track...so, the next day came and she didn't call us, but she never does (unless there's an issue that she feels we can resolve), we always call her. So I called the cell phone that we've provided for her and she hit ignore (you know when that happens). So I texted her (assuming she was with someone she didn't want to talk to us around) and asked her if she was able to find out the appt date and time. She texted back saying "crud, I forgot" and said she would call her mom and to hang on. We never got a reply. I texted her about 4 days later to just say hi and see how her long weekend was going. Nothing. So I wrote our agency and outlined our concerns and said we aren't sure how to proceed and that we're nervous because she's never ignored us before, and the coordinator's response, as usual, was "calm down" and "don't take it in the context that she is ignoring you...she's 15 and in foster care and doesn't always have access to the phone and internet...stop feeling like she isn't comfortable or doesnt' like you anymore, that just isn't the case. If you want to check in with her, check in. And let me know when she has appts otherwise you'll drive yourself crazy trying to rely on her." Okay, so maybe we over-reacted. So a couple days go by, and I call the cell phone, her mom has it (odd because she's not in her care) and says things about how we have to be so excited to have seen the baby on the sonogram and that it's a boy, and how exciting, to which we responded, um, wow, no, we didn't know. Her mom then thought maybe she misunderstood and maybe it's a surprise. (Keep in mind we've been unsure whether this is totally emom's decision or if it's her mom's influence and emom's just trying to appease her) So we call emom and when she gets on the phone, she says she's about to leave to see boyfriend, and was totally distant and disinterested. She also told us "icwa" is coming to get her and she's leaving the state and going back to her tribe. She also said that if we all still want to go to the appt, we can make it for monday (it was a thursday night) but that she probably won't be here anymore anyway (she did not mention already having the appt or anything that her mom said...and we're not entirely certain if she did, in fact, have the appt since she is barely 20 weeks this week). We did small talk a little throughout the 5 minute convo, but most of it was painstaking and cringeworthy with her tone and attitude. She then said she had to go and was leaving and hung up.

So we called then wrote our agency about what happened including basically the transcript of both conversations. The next day we get a call from the head of teh agency saying, "we have serious concerns that you guys are jeopardizing this adoption by contacting her too much and checking up on her. You need to back off....maybe you need to see a counselor to help you deal with the emotions of this..." and more and more stuff, to which we defended our stance and that we've never gotten the impression we've contacted her too much, or been told to back off, but to the contrary, we were told to "check in" if we wanted to. After speaking with the head (who obviously is going based off the coordinator's opinion of us and the situation even though she hasn't spoken with emom in like a month) she seems to have a least slightly changed her view on this. So we were told that they would look into it but that a baby was being born this weekend and that it might not be mid-to-late this week until we have answers to what is going on, and that they will speak to her caseworker and try to get ahold of emom.

So, we're on the fence and very upset and frustrated and confused as to what is going on. How emom can go from one extreme to the other in such a short period of time ( we totally understand it is her right to change her mind, but we just don't understand her behavior or the time frame in which this happened.) We don't think or feel that we did anything wrong, and we're so confused as to why we're being accused of it, which just adds to the confusion and frustration. We feel that boyfriend coming back into her life has caused this change. We aren't sure that she was being honest about leaving the state. Has anyone experienced anything like this before, from an e-mom or their agency? We can't switch agencies, we've already put $7,250 towards their fees which are non-refundable. We're hoping we can resolve this with the agency. As for this match, well, I guess it depends on what they find out. We don't know if she's just freaking out or confused or what. We don't know what to think or feel about any of it. Any insight or experience would be greatly appreciated.

[Waiting_for_my_baby]

I don't think you've done anything wrong, sounds like you did everything right. I know those feeling of not knowing what's going on so I just wanted to send a hug your way. Please let us know when you hear an update.

[Saya]

Hi Mandie,

I know it's tough, but it really does sound like you need to back off and let her make her own way for a while. I mean, she's 15, pregnant, and in foster care. I can hardly think of a more confusing, difficult, emotionally complicated situation. (I mean for me just being 15 on its own was incredibly difficult, and i didn't have to deal with the extra hormones of a pregnancy.) It may be that you and your husband have been incredibly polite, respectful of boundaries, not putting any pressure on her, etc. But at 15, with potentially competing pressures in her life about whether to parent or not, it may FEEL like pressure. Plus it may be hard to have another person in her life that is checking up and feels "in loco parentis." It sounds like she needs space - it could be space to deal with her emotions, or to deal with her boyfriend. She may be dealing with feelings of anger about potentially losing her baby. And yes, she might be thinking about changing her mind about the adoption. What ever it is, it is what it is. I would advise just giving her the space, and then letting her know you are there for her if she needs it. I KNOW that's hard, but she's still early in her pregnancy and she's got a lot to think through.

Hugs and Good luck!

[mandiedandie]

We totally understand and are willing to give her space, however, if she is keeping her options open, we feel it is only fair to us to keep ours open as well. If it comes back that she does need her space and doesn't know if this is what she wants, is it fair for us to ask if we be shown to other e-moms? We've been matched with her for the past 10 weeks, so we really don't want to sit back and feel like this for another 20 weeks and possibly get passed on for another match. However, in the same light, we have built a relationship with her, we care for her, we thought everything was going great. We don't want to just pass because she's having a rough time. We're really confused. We want to look our for our best interest and our emotions and feelings, as well as, hers.

In regards to her feeling like we are acting in "loco parentis", our coordinator said to us when she was pulled into foster care that we would probably have to act like parents to her during this time. We didn't exactly take it literally, but you can understand our confusion on what our agency is saying because we got little or now, conflicting advice and suggestions. But, maybe you're right, maybe we did come off this way, and uggghhhh, we just feel like we can't win.

[Magic_Hat]

This is a tough one. I agree that maybe you should back off for a while. That's so much for a teenager to have on her plate!

I would give it some time, 10 days or so, and then call or text that you just wanted to check in and then maybe assess it from there. But you have to make the really hard choice of sticking with her or bailing now and I don't think anyone can really advise you on that. She could change her mind at the very end and you have to decide if you and your DH can handle that emotionally (during the rest of the pregnancy and then afterwards, if it happened).

I would be careful about defying what your social worker or agency worker is telling you though cause they have your money!

[Yash]

Originally Posted by Saya

Hi Mandie,

I know it's tough, but it really does sound like you need to back off and let her make her own way for a while. I mean, she's 15, pregnant, and in foster care. I can hardly think of a more confusing, difficult, emotionally complicated situation. (I mean for me just being 15 on its own was incredibly difficult, and i didn't have to deal with the extra hormones of a pregnancy.) It may be that you and your husband have been incredibly polite, respectful of boundaries, not putting any pressure on her, etc. But at 15, with potentially competing pressures in her life about whether to parent or not, it may FEEL like pressure. Plus it may be hard to have another person in her life that is checking up and feels "in loco parentis." It sounds like she needs space - it could be space to deal with her emotions, or to deal with her boyfriend. She may be dealing with feelings of anger about potentially losing her baby. And yes, she might be thinking about changing her mind about the adoption. What ever it is, it is what it is. I would advise just giving her the space, and then letting her know you are there for her if she needs it. I KNOW that's hard, but she's still early in her pregnancy and she's got a lot to think through.

Hugs and Good luck!

I agree completely.

[thanksgivingmom]

Mandie - I was going to totally go along the lines of what Saya was saying. Fifteen sucks! (Or did for me!) And like Saya said, that's without the added stress/confusion of pregnancy and being in foster care (which I realize isn't necessarily stressful/confusing by nature, but having followed your story, I'm guessing that contributes).

15 year olds DO change their minds/emotions from one extreme to the other faster than I can comprehend not much more than ten years after being one myself! So don't be too hard on yourselves...give her the space they think she needs and see what happens! (Yes, MUCH easier said than done I realize).

As for you guys? I think it's absolutely appropriate that you be shown to other situations. This one is still SO early on, SO up in the air, and I think as long as you're honest with all parties it's definitely your right to make that decision.

[Fran27]

I would probably stop trying to contact her altogether. Let the agency know that you're still interested if she wants to but for now just let it go... let their social workers do their job, or the agency might refuse to work with you and you'll be out that money anyway.

I'm guessing the agency won't be too happy with the idea of showing you to other situations while this is going on though, so maybe look at other agencies with no upfront fees (and a smaller placement fee) in the meantime?

[mandiedandie]

We're not planning on defying our agency. Trust me, we are too scared to even think of contacting her at this point, with the way she acted last contact, and the way our agency treated us, we're just sitting back and waiting for the agency to call us and tell us their findings. We're just so confused at how the agency attacked us (we feel that way anyway, but our emotions are already raw, so you know, it probably wasn't attackive) and frustrated with their lack of guidance.

As for being shown to other pbmom's, we're going to base that on the agency's findings. Our feelings is that if she's unsure, then it's only fair to us to be out there until she is more sure. We totally intend on giving her space, but, I guess our issue is more what we should be inferring from this an how we should proceed...and I know it's a personal decision for us, but I just wanted insight and uggghh, I guess to feel like we're not alone, and that we aren't unintentionally "jeopardizing" this adoption.

[Gwen72]

I think it's hard enough to be 15 much less being pregnant and in foster care. We had a situation once where the emom was telling us and the agency that she was "definately going to place the baby with us" and she was telling the nurses and social workers at the Dr's office that she was "definately keeping her options open." We had the agency put us back into circulation and told emom that if we were still available when she had the baby that we would consider adoptiong him or her. My advice is to get yourself back on the list.

[mandiedandie]

I'm not sure that our agency can just dismiss us out of hand that way, but maybe I'm assuming incorrectly. It isn't like we've ever been warned before, or told before that our actions or level of contact was bad in any way. I've sought guidance a couple of times from them, and have gotten no feedback whatsoever. Until this and now. And okay, we'll heed their warning and their advice and back off, that isn't the issue. I am not asking if we should back off of her...we completely will. I just don't understand how this came about, and I did factor her age into it considerably, but after everyone's insight, I feel a lot more sure that this is normal for a person of her age. I'm not sure what our agency will say or think about showing us to other pbmom's...that's hard for us too...waiting and wondering for answers on all of this. But since the call on Friday, we have been sitting back waiting for them to contact us, we're taking the backseat like they asked us to. It's just the way it happened, we feel it could have been handled much differently. But like I said previously, our emotions were raw, so maybe we were over-senesitive to how our agency reacted...I don't know.

[sarah33]

Mandie-
I don't have any real experience or advice. I just wanted to say I've "followed" your story here and I am sorry that you are going through all this. I hope everything works out for the best.
Peace,
Sarah

[nurseab24]

You know that really annoys me that your agency is treating you that way. You guys have obviously not done anything wrong, and I think everyone would be concerned about the situation. I hope you can work things out with this agency because of the money you have already invested, but at this point it doesn't seem like they have your interest in mind at all.

[Linny]

I'd have to agree with nurseab24. I think your agency is treating you like children (which some agencies often do) and basically 'keeping you in the dark'. Can they read the mind of this teenaged emom? No; but they COULD be more supportive to you, given you've paid them a lot of $$ already, AND, I suspect this is your first possible adoption, KWIM?

FWIW, I'd get back on the list. I agree this pgncy is early on---which is why a lot of agencies/attorneys will NOT match until much later in the pregnancy and emom has had time to have more counseling, more thought, etc.....
Given this is a 15yr old girl.........like others have said, there's SO much more going on here other than being pregnant....and honestly, with this, the situation of whether to parent or release for adoption is bound to be full of roller-coaster emotions for everyone---especially her.
Keep in mind too, adoption IS a business and most agencies are in this FOR profit---even if they state that they aren't. To be blunt, the behavior from your agency might be such because THEY want to back off to see what emom might do---one way or the other. Sooo, rather than setting idly by, I believe I'd be searching for additional situations/agencies to deal with. If the agency agrees to show you to other situations, I'd go for it---NOT to jump ship on this emom; but to allow her to think more fully if she really wants to place or not.

And others from these forums will tell you *I'm* the loudest voice in suggesting this, but IF you should choose (agency will allow you) to be considered for other situations, consider going with 'already born babies'. This avenue eliminates the confusion of whether an emom really wants to place. The baby is born, the birthmom has signed papers and sometimes, depending on your state, the revocation time has elapsed as well. Takes a lot of pressure off of everyone.
Best of luck...and let me say again, *you* didn't do anything wrong.

Sincerely,

Linny

[sbaglio]

If you are to be shown in other situations, I think that it's only fair that you back out of the match, rather than continue with this 15 year old and another emom simultaneously. Maybe that has been mentioned and I missed it, or is assumed. When you match so early, I think the drawn-out uncertainty can be part of the deal, so you accept that with your decision.

I hope things work out for you, whatever you decide to do.