[Quesita]

I'm interested in people's thoughts about this article.

Even Babies Discriminate: A NurtureShock Excerpt. | Newsweek Life | Newsweek.com

[oceanica]

I thought it was very interesting and will be curious to see what others say. I read it a few days ago and thought about posting it here.

[CAToso]

I read this the other day too and thought it was very interesting. (Meanwhile a lot of the comments on the article by other readers were just - disgusting and sad.)

It's kind of a shame that even the best-intentioned of caucasian adults are uncomfortable discussing race with their kids. I can see the reasoning that by bringing it up, you're making an "issue" of it, but the reality is that it is an issue, and you have to educate and empower your kids to be able to deal with it when it comes up. Just immersing them in a "multicultural" environment and hoping for the best is not enough.

Since we have kids of several races in our family, I don't think it's something we'll have a problem with, but it definitely tells me that I need to open up the communication about differences in skin color, and not just assume that having aa, br, and hispanic cousins makes it a non-issue.

I thought the red-shirt/blue-shirt study was particularly interesting, and I had to laugh at the anecdote about the woman's child asking what "equal" meant after months of reinforcing that everyone is equal.

~Courtney

[robandjulie]

Interesting and for the most part reassuring. I see things in here that I recognize as happening with DD already (identifying me vs. them in non-PC but apparently natural ways) and I see that we're on the "right" path in some of our conversations.

A few weeks ago DD pointed out that she liked "our skin" more than her brother's because ours matched. It was a nice time to talk about some of our physical differences and similarities within our family, neighbors, and circle of friends and some of our personality similarities/diffs and interests, etc. It really opened up a great conversation about people who look like you but like different things, people who look different but like the same things, etc. Knowing kids look for ways to connect or disconnect (group) things I hope this helped her see that color, hair, etc is ONE group of features of so so many. The issue of preferring her own skin color was touchy, though, as I don't want to discourage her from loving her own skin/body/image but as they say in the article encouraging white pride has a certain unsavory feeling.

I couldn't see reader comments on the article; probably just as well.

[DianeS]

I read this a few days ago, too. The part I found most intriguing is that ths was an article about how children make "us vs them" decisions about race on their own. That a child with a poor view of a different race could well have developed that attitude on his own, without his parents saying or implying anything at all - and may even develop that poor attitude if his parents are thinking and saying all the "right" things but are keeping the discussion on the surface instead of deeper. Bad racial attitudes are not always picked up from one's parents.

The red shirt vs blue shirt experiment was especially interesting. I'd love someone to repeat that experiment with a few shades of purple shirts thrown in, since our society now has varying skin shades in it besides strictly "black" and "white".

[devildogwife]

Thanks for posting the link. It gave me a lot to think about.

[Nevada Jen]

I thought it was an interesting article. We don't actually talk much about race other than that all colors of people are beautiful. DS's curls are gorgeous etc. . . Our life is extremely multicultural and it never occured to me we should also talk specifically about racial issues with our kids at such a young age.

[jules17]

Very interesting. I also find it fascinating that my 3 little ones have zero interest in race difference, BUT are very into what color everyone's eyes are.

[OakShannon]

Very interesting. I thought it was telling that so many of the parents said that they just didn't know what to say. They were worried about using the wrong words or giving the wrong message unintentionally. We (I'm talking specifically about white people) have such a hard time talking about race and we seem to perpetuate that in our kids. I also thought it was pretty discouraging to read that the more diverse a school is, the more likely the kids are to self-segregate.

I've had this conversation about what David notices about skin color (not so much race at this age) with my mom and Elizabeth lately. I knew he would notice race early, but expected it to become obvious when he was closer to preschool age - the age when kids start to categorize "like" and "different". But he noticed much earlier than that. He's normally reserved with adult strangers. But there have been several instances when he has approached someone on his own. Once walking up to another mom at a playground and touching her hand. Another time rushing to the gate at the park and waving "bye-bye" to a mom I had talked to briefly. Another time coming up to a man who spoke to him and giving him a "high-five." All of these adults were African American with dark skin like his. David is fascinated with his own reflection in the mirror, and by 18 months was already able to recognize with pleasure adults that he noticed looked like him. Since they notice at such a young age, it doesn't surprise me that they draw conclusions both about physical differences and about the fact that parents inadvertently make it a taboo subject to talk about openly.

[aclee]

I'm going to go back and read it in more detail, but I truly believe that children notice skin color long before we give them credit for. Tyler was a little under a year when I think it "clicked" for him. We are around AA people pretty frequently, and I feel like he has almost always noticed them, and been more free or shown preference for them. Right around a year we were in the grocery store and I went to my favorite check out person (she never fights me about my coupons!). Ty was sitting in the front seat of the basket, staring at her...then he looked at me, studied me, and then back at her...it was really un nerving for both of us, and I chat with her every time I see her...it was SO clear what was going on. He even looked down and touched my hand, and then leaned over to watch her hands ring through the groceries. She finally looked at me and shrugged her shoulders and leaned over to him touched his hand, and said..."That's right sweetie, I'm black like you!"

We talk about race a lot with my nieces. Their mother is a teacher, and she talks about race pretty frequently in the class room...more than just the passing MLK lesson anyway. I think that for many parents, IT is hard. I know when I started talking about it to my nieces, my sister thought they were too young. I think it's like the sex and drugs talk...sometimes when you wait till you think they are old enough, you've missed the opportunity.

[Quesita]

I'm still processing what I read in this article.

My first, knee-jerk reaction to the piece was that the author seemed to be focusing on a world in which people were black and white, and maybe a little Asian. The article did not even acknowlege the existance of latinos, who are mostly mixtures of white and black and indigenous blood. And the first study was done in Austin, which I think is a largely latino city.

My second reaction was guilt. Oh no. I talk about ethnicity all the time. But I don't talk about race. And I'm just like the parents who think that they just need to expose their kids to lots of people of different races and ethnicities, and the kids will turn out fine.

Then I thought about my own approach, and realized that it is one that was not mentioned in the article at all. I talk about ethnicity. A lot. I talk about languages that people speak. A lot. And 80% of the kids in the public schools in my district speak a language other than English at home, so in my neighborhood, it is a valid thing to talk about. I tell Liana that she is from Guatemala, and that Layla's mommy is from the Dominican Republic, and that Beatirz is from Colombia, and that Olga is from Puerto Rico, and that people from all of those places speak Spanish, just like Liana speaks Spanish. I tell her that Wasi's mom and dad are from Bangladesh, so he doesn't speak Spanish, he speaks Bengali and he speaks English too. Did you hear what Rachid was saying? Listen! He is speaking Arabic to his brother? Do you speak Arabic? No, I don't speak Arabic either. Isn't Arabic a beautiful language? Let's listen.

I've tell Liana that she is an indigenous person. Susana's husband is an indgenous person too, just like you! Let's listen to this man playing the flute! He is an indigenous person, just like Liana is an indigenous person. He is an indigenous person from Peru, and you are an indigenous person from Guatemala. She nods. I figure I'm just introducing the concept, and that there will be a lot more to discuss in years to come.

The first time that Liana seemed to notice color was when a new little girl joined her preschool. She was very light skinned white, and had bright yellowish blond hair, and Liana called her "the little yellow girl." Most of the kids Liana knows have brown skin and black hair, so this little girl stood out. In spite of the fact that mommy has yellow hair.

Race? Skin color? No. I haven't talked about it. The yellow hair was the closest we've come.

But I don't live in a world in which most people are black or white. Most people in our world are shades of brown, and the way they view themselves is probably different from the way they would be viewed outside of NYC. Someone who would be considered black almost anywhere else, in our community proudly claims to be Dominican. Look at the city councilwoman from the next district over. I work with her office a lot. New York City Council - Council Member - District: 21
And here is my State Assemblyman. New York State Assembly - Members I really think anywhere outside of NY, these two walking down the street would be considered black. But I call them Dominican. And that is what they call themselves. It is ethnicity, not race.

I guess at Thanksgiving we will talk about the fact that Colombus got lost and arrived in the Americas and met indigenous people and thought he was in India, because indigenous people of the Americas, like you, have the same color skin as people from India and Pakistan and Bangladesh. See, your skin is the same color as Wasi's, even though you are from different parts of the world.

Am I missing the boat here?

I'm really interested in hearing how other families talk about race and or ethnicity with toddlers and preschoolers.

[jp4ga]

When my son was about 6 months old we moved from a lilly white town in TN to the Atlanta area. I remember the first day we went out he got very clingly and cried. It took me a minute to figure it out but it was the first time he had been exposed to a person of color. For several weeks everytime he saw a non white person he would cry and cling to me for dear life. I had to introduce him to race at a very young age. He really opened my eyes to how we should teach our children about race and not just culture.

[spitzlvr]

I thought it was an interesting article, and an interesting thread. But I wonder about the way they put it - they notice RACE differences. The study was for race. I wonder what they would have found targeting other differences. What I have found with my kids is not that they notice race differences per se, it is that they notice DIFFERENCES.
Now, my kids are exposed to people with all kinds of differences from them - be it skin color or physical abilities. My son always points out someone in a wheelchair - they are like our family friend L. Young white girls are like La. etc...

Here's a funny - we had stopped to get some lunch one day, and my son (about 5 at the time) was attracted to a man waiting in line. He kept telling us we were all the same. My DH and I are both white, between 5 7 and 6 feet tall, and average weight. This gentleman was black, at least 6 5, and built - looked like all muscle. For the life of me I couldn't figure it out. Till my son enlightened me - all 3 of us were wearing the same sneakers!! (New Balance).

He was right.

I don't know how I did it, but my son (and hopefully my daughter too...) loves to find the similarities, and discounts the differences.

I wish we were all like that.

[crick]

Interesting and it did dawn on me that the more diverse schools will have more segregation.

Hadn't really thought about it, but the article made me think of my kids friends and I realized that my dd's best friend is Columbian and her other 2 best friends are twins adopted from Africa. My middle son's best friend is Indian & Hispanic. Sad to think if they were in a more diverse school they might not be friends with each other.

We don't have that many discussions at our own direction with our kids. Meaning, we typically have discussions on race & culture in response to something or a situation that has happened. Last year's election sparked many a discussion.

Like the article mentioned, I think sometimes I don't really know what to say. My issue is more that while I don't want to raise color blind children, I also don't want to make it a FOCUS. I want them to notice and appreciate but not seek out differences, if that makes sense?

I also found the article interesting in that it says 85% of non whites have more race discussions with their kids but it didn't really touch on what those discussions are about. Are those discussions positive in nature as the ones white parents should be having with their kids? Are those discussions touching on all races or just their own? (If they did mention this let me know because I didn't see it)

One of my running thoughts through out the whole article though was 'Of course kids notice skin color and of course they identify more with their own". I didn't see that as a shocking revelation at all.

[loveajax]

What a fascinating article. Need to have more discussions about race with dd....I wish they said what those five or six families discussed. I definitely think I have kept things too general...arrrgh!

I love, love the black santa story.