[Stormster]

The meltdowns have begun. They are soooooooo dramatic I think he should be an actor!

Scenario. We are in the car and he pulls my nose spray bottle out of my bag as i'm lifting him out of the car seat (I know I know but it's always something he finds that is inappropriate to hold and play with). I take it back and he FREAKS. I am carrying him to the store and he's kicking or does the whole forearm to Mommy's throat thing. I try to put him in the shopping cart, no can do. He's strong and wiggling and just no way. It's embarrassingly loud, he's really hysterical now. I decide to carry him and take the items up to the counter one at a time (fun, he feels like he weight a thousand pounds at this point, A WIGGLING THOUSAND POUND MONSTER! But hey, all in a days work.

I put him down for a second mid tantrum just to pick up something I dropped and he throws himself on the floor like a cartoon character having a tantrum and is literally kicking and screaming!

Now the whole time I know the solution is a cookie but he's going to turn into a spoiled obese brat if i keep shoving cookies in his mouth....still, we are in public so i grab a box of cookies, tear it open and pop one in his mouth and he's fine. Like someone turned the off switch.

The thing is he's doing this 2 or 3 times a day. I can't keep putting cookies in his mouth! I also don't want to totally ignore him.

I read somewhere to say to him something like "Hey E I know you've got to do this thing and it's ok so if you need to cry go ahead and cry" and then leave the room for a minute or so. It said if you come back usually the storm has lost a little steam.

But what about when that doesn't work? What about in public? THe cookie thing is just so NOT the kind of thing I believe in. Works great though!

I keep thinking if i keep with the cookies he's going to turn into the fat kid in Willy Wonka, or worse, the spoiled kid!

[jules17]

Originally Posted by Stormster

I read somewhere to say to him something like "Hey E I know you've got to do this thing and it's ok so if you need to cry go ahead and cry" and then leave the room for a minute or so. It said if you come back usually the storm has lost a little steam.

But what about when that doesn't work? What about in public?

Aaah, welcome to my world. What I left in quotes is what we do - no cookies or rewards of any sort. Mean mommy? Maybe.

In public, we give them a chance to cool off, or we head to the restroom or leave, depending on the severity. We have had to physically leave maybe twice. We also do the distraction technique, with varied success depending on the "love of the tantrum item."

If at home, sometimes we say, "Oh, I'm sorry you're upset. You need to go to your room to have your tantrum." And that usually stops it cold.

Tantrums have decreased significantly!!

[Stormster]

So Jules did you ever put them in their rooms? Doesn't the bedroom then become a kind of scary place?

[jules17]

Originally Posted by Stormster

So Jules did you ever put them in their rooms? Doesn't the bedroom then become a kind of scary place?

We don't put them in their rooms. If they choose to go there to "finish" in their space, then I feel it makes it more empowering to them/not scary. They don't like that option, though, because no one's watching.

If they don't go to their room, we leave the room.

Either way - no audience. I think that's the key, not so much where. They need to know and do know exactly what to expect...which is especially important with 2 who may be having a tantrum at the same time!

[blessedbybug]

Here's what I do...

In public, I just let him have his fit and go about my business. Usually that means that everyone stares at me in the grocery store as he hollers his head off but I know he's doing it because he doesn't get his way. It's the same in the mall... if he can't get control, I carry him out or he has to get into the umbrella stroller I take along all the time. He rarely rides anymore but it is handy not only to carry coats etc but if he needs to be disciplined he knows he gets in there.

As for at home, the first thing I do is get on his level and look in his face and ask him to calm himself, use words (this works better now that he has words!!!) to tell me what he is upset about. if he can't get control, he gets to go to his room to chill out. Both kids do this... they need separation in order to get themselves together. With a tantrum, DS knows when he is calm he is welcome to join the family again. DD usually by this point at nearly five will put herself in her chill out chair before she gets really upset so I believe it works. I just say to DS "I know you're upset but you don't get what you want when you act this way and Momma needs you to act this way somewhere else". Then I put him in his room. I never give in and he doesn't get anything he wants until he can calm down and use words to ask in the right way.

It's definitely a process because it gets really challenging when you're in a restaurant and your food just arrived and he is upset and well, one parent has to go sit in the car so that the other child doesn't get punished (and the rest of the restaurant doesn't have to endure it either).

The most important thing I have learned is to remain calm to not let him know I'm upset. I can't tell you how hard that is when it is the 25th tantrum a day. By 5:00 I'm usually done and praying Hubby would get home ASAP to take over. But it always goes better when I stay calm and don't let them sense my tension. For me, that's a huge part of it.

Whatever you do, be consistent. And know you're not alone!

[blessedbybug]

Originally Posted by jules17

Either way - no audience. I think that's the key, not so much where. They need to know and do know exactly what to expect...which is especially important with 2 who may be having a tantrum at the same time!

This is definitely key. For us, thier rooms are not scary but calming. And separation from us (me especially) is key. I want them to know that the behavior doesn't work.

[jules17]

Originally Posted by blessedbybug

The most important thing I have learned is to remain calm to not let him know I'm upset.

Most definitely!! Now we can talk about their conflict, but we make sure it doesn't become "our" conflict by getting upset along with them.

I would guess E's tantrums will probably be the hardest for the next 6-12 mos?? Then they can talk more, and for us, are less likely to tantrum.

Just remember if you think he is big and hard to manage now, they only get bigger and stronger, so it's best to find a way that works now.

[jules17]

Originally Posted by Stormster

The thing is he's doing this 2 or 3 times a day. I can't keep putting cookies in his mouth! I also don't want to totally ignore him.

My "issue" with the cookie thing is that it is a reward. We wanted to work on extinguishing (behavior mod speak) the behavior, not encouraging more of it. Which I know you do too!!

Also, we felt by giving them what they want or "giving in," we weren't helping them deal with their issues, frustrations, etc. As in, they need to work through it in their way. And believe me, they do.

I hope I don't sound preachy - I sure don't mean to. Just trying to share what we do and why.

And ignore, ignore, ignore others in public who may give you the stink eye.

[tomandcate]

My youngest is almost 2 and he's been having tantrums for the last few months. If he gets hold of something he's not supposed to have, I "trade" him for something appropriate and that usually works. Redirection has worked well for him. Thankfully he has not had too many fits in public but if he does and I cannot distract/redirect, we leave. My oldest (4) has only had to leave a store one time and it was Target, his favorite place to go. I gave him several warnings that we would leave if he couldn't behave - he didn't and so we left - and he learned quickly that I meant business.

At restaurants I believe it is usually too much to expect this age to sit quietly for an hour or more, so if they get too antsy my husband and I take turns walking them around outside while we wait for service.

I would absolutely stop the cookie thing (or any other reward) immediately - babies and toddlers and children are masters at the art of manipulation and it only takes once or twice for them to learn what it takes to get what they want. Believe me I know it is so easy to give in because it makes your immediate problem go away, but you are setting him and yourself up for bigger problems in the future.

When my youngest has a melt down at home I try several things to help him calm down - walking around with him, cuddling him, etc. If nothing I do works, I put him on the floor and tell him "Okay, I understand you are upset, so go ahead and cry." Then I go in the next room. That usually works, if not immediately then after a few minutes. He isn't much of a thrasher (he kicks but not with enough force to hurt himself) so I keep an eye on him but I put him in the middle of the open floor on a rug so he can't do any damage. With my oldest I send him to the guest bedroom or another part of the house - usually not his bedroom unless someone else is staying in the guest room - and I tell him to let me know when he's calmed down. That has worked well too. Youngest is too young to put anywhere other than his crib and I don't want to use the crib as the "cooling off place."

Also just FYI my kids' "witching hour" - especially if they don't take a nap - is anywhere from 5pm to 7pm. I almost never take them anywhere during these hours because I know it is harder for them to control themselves. When I take them to a store or restaurant I try to make sure it's at a time when they are as well-rested and/or well-fed and happy as possible!

Good luck, I know how frustrating/embarrassing/tear-inducing these tantrums can be!

Cate

[misidawnrn]

My friend has 2 boys that have tantrums like you describe and she went to a counselor about it. She was told to read and follow the book 1-2-3-magic. I am not sure who wrote it but I borrowed it after her and it is awesome. I thank God my DD isn't a tantrum thrower but has her moments where the 1-2-3 thing works great. I hope this helps.
Melissa

[crick]

I used to have "store toys" in my diaper bag or purse. I had a small selection of things they only got when we went to the store or general public. So that might help if you have to trade an item with him that he wants.

I think in your situation today, I'd have given him a chance to cool off in the car. Stand outside the car if you have to! (I know not everyone can turn off their ears like me!)
Or you could just turn on the music in the car. Usually a calmer start will ensure a better shopping trip.

I've sat in the middle of a grocery aisle with one or more of my kids in my lap waiting out the tantrum. I've also left the store. And you bet I've also given them a cracker or anything I could grab to calm them down. Not to reward them, but ME. Obviously as you said, you don't make a habit of this one, but sometimes you have to do what you have to do.

Try smiling and singing silly songs to him too. Something different that might make him go "huh?" Blow bubbles at him (must have for diaper bag, imo!!!) for distraction too.

And then there is the simply ignore it times and deal with the stares. Most times I think you'll get the sympathetic looks from moms who go /have gone through the exact same thing. It happens to everyone.

[aclee]

I have two ways to deal with tantrums in kids. It really depends on WHY they are tantruming (when they are at E's age) if they are having a tantrum because they can't convey something to you, or are confused or upset about something that they can't express, I do soothe them. If they are tantruming from a "no" or an "you can't have that" they they get ignored. I would have gotten him in that carriage. E is smart, and you know that. If you gently took his face between your thumb and forefinger and tell him sit sternly in that "I'm the Mommy" voice, "Sit" Do you think he would do it? I would have tried that. Even most tantuming kids know the Mommy voice and will listen to a one word command. I would have gotten him in that carriage come you know what or high water, cause in addition to carrying him and giving him all that extra attention of being lugged, he can feel your upset and frustration, and he's right there to take it out on you physically. All those things are huge pluses in the tantrum world. I had a tantrumer when I was a Nanny and I would strap her in good, and pull the carriage so my back was to her back as she was sitting, and when she stopped I would go back and push the carriage. I've told total strangers to "please ignore her" in the grocery store before when they would try and help and ask her what was wrong.

No more cookies Storm my friend. You know that. You know what to do here, because you are a very smart Mommy. You want to hear reassurance that we've all been there, and it's ok to be the "mean" mommy sometimes? Be the mean Mommy!!!

If I see a Mom in the grocery store with a tantruming kid and she's ignoring him/her, I always catch her eye and smile to try and support her. It's NOT easy when everyone is watching you! It's really not, but you do a million things everyday for E that aren't easy, so you can do this too!

[Texan99]

Does anyone know the full title of the 1-2-3 Magic book. I just looked it up on Amazon and there are a lot of different ones. Is it Effective Discipline for Children 2-12? I am having the same issues as Storm and am hoping this book and everyone's advice will help me.

My son, B, is 2 1/2, and has thrown 2 public tantrums this week, which has involved me picking him up and carrying him kicking and screaming to the car. (you should see my bruises) Trying to get him in the car is an issue when this happens. He has tantrums at home too, but they are a little easier to deal with b/c I can walk away if he won't calm down.

Thank you,
Beth

[Cjmeck]

I am SO not looking forward to tantrums again... My son was the absolute tantrum king. In the situation you were in, I would do just about anything possible to get him IN the cart. Or stroller or whatever. Get him contained. Water fountains were a good distraction for us for a long time. Give the child a sip of water and it snapped him back to reality. So, find a distraction (no more cookies...lol, I know desperate times, right?) and use that to get him in the cart. Then go about your business and ignore him. If it is something fun (like McD's or going for ice cream or playing at the park) then go sit in the car. If he tantrums again, you go home. I swear I left more public places with a screaming kid in 2 years than most people can even imagine.
At home, I completely agree with what everyone else said. No audience. The larger the crowd, the better the performance so just walk away. Some kids, will calm themselves down. Others (like my son) will tantrum with such intensity that they need help calming down. So after I ignored him for a bit, I did have to hold him on my lap and rock him. He'd just cry until he threw up. Just be consistent, and never, never, never give in once you've said no. Once he's able to communicate better, you'll probably see less tantrums. Oh, and since you took away the nasal spray; could you replace it with a "yes" item instead? Or will he just throw the yes item because he wants the nasal spray? Just a thought, its been awhile. I know I'll be asking you for advice in the not so distant future! lol

[jules17]

Originally Posted by aclee

I have two ways to deal with tantrums in kids. It really depends on WHY they are tantruming (when they are at E's age) if they are having a tantrum because they can't convey something to you, or are confused or upset about something that they can't express, I do soothe them. If they are tantruming from a "no" or an "you can't have that" they they get ignored.

ITA...I answered from the scenario of E wanting something he shouldn't have, since that is what Storm started it out with.

If our sons are having a tantrum because their toy isn't working quite right, or they need to tell me something that is huge in their world, we talk and work it out.

But if it's just an "I want...wahhhhh!" then my above responses cover that.