[mommieof2cuties]

Just my two cents, I have Breast feed my adopted Children, but that was because I was already Breast Feeding. I also breastfeed one preemie foster son who was in our care for a year. He needed the skin contact Years ago they had wet nurses to help with breastfeeding, we have become a country full of issue and for some reason breastfeeding will always be an issue. My point in all this is that once TPR is signed you as the amom can do what you want when you want. As a Birthmom myself, I think if I birthmom can nurse while in the hospital after the birth that would be great for the baby, than when the baby is released to you, you could start nursing. Breastfeeding is natural and if you can do it, great, if you cannot that is fine also! But nothing replaces the skin to skin bonding that happens. I have a friend that adopted and she could breastfeed, so I told her to but the baby on her skin at each feeding and bottle feed him that way so that he still gets the contact! In the end it is about the baby and that is what so many people forget...the baby! What is best for the baby! No matter what the pbmom or amom wants in the end it should always be about the baby

[Stormster]

Originally Posted by mommieof2cuties

Just my two cents, I have Breast feed my adopted Children, but that was because I was already Breast Feeding. I also breastfeed one preemie foster son who was in our care for a year. He needed the skin contact Years ago they had wet nurses to help with breastfeeding, we have become a country full of issue and for some reason breastfeeding will always be an issue. My point in all this is that once TPR is signed you as the amom can do what you want when you want. As a Birthmom myself, I think if I birthmom can nurse while in the hospital after the birth that would be great for the baby, than when the baby is released to you, you could start nursing. Breastfeeding is natural and if you can do it, great, if you cannot that is fine also! But nothing replaces the skin to skin bonding that happens. I have a friend that adopted and she could breastfeed, so I told her to but the baby on her skin at each feeding and bottle feed him that way so that he still gets the contact! In the end it is about the baby and that is what so many people forget...the baby! What is best for the baby! No matter what the pbmom or amom wants in the end it should always be about the baby

I wish i had done that. i was so overwhelmed. I wish i had a do-over (talking about skin t skin bottle feedings

[binkybear]

Originally Posted by JustPeachy

I am not trying to be antagonisitc (I hope my question doesn't come off this way), but I would like to ask the amoms if they were unable to breastfeed for whatever reason, if they would feel comfortable letting the birthmother breastfeed their child. What about another woman altogether? A wetnurse or friend or other relative? Or another amom who had induced lactation?

I think we're about to mix apples and oranges, but I'll answer this one from my own perspective. I've already (jokingly and in light hearthead conversation) thrown out to my sis that if her 2nd is born around the same time we place that she could pump for us. (nice of me, huh...hey wanna share sis ) Does that idea bother me..no not at all. Does the idea of using medically screened banked breast milk bother me...no, not at all...espeically given the current issues coming forth with formula and all. Should any mother be denied breasteeding her child or making the deisions she feels benefits her child, no IMO. If I'm my child's mother do I have the right to do that if I feel the need to? My child will indeed feel the warmth of my skin, smell my skin and feel my heartbeat as I feed him or her....so I guess my thought is when does one become a mother able to add one last element to that above and simply breastfeed if she so chooses? Why should any mother be stopped from making her choices that benefit her child. I guess this is where those lines start to blur in this world of 2 mothers and trying to keep things balanced. Do we place with those unable to give the gift of blood, if God forbid there's a crisis those fluids would run through a child's body just the same. I still have compassion to that feeling of It's mine to share alone but I don't totally agree with it and could get flamed for my intial unshared snap thoughts on it, but I'm allowed those personal feelings just the same and I can grow from them. My gut says it all goes back to being honest upfront and being at peace with your choices for the big picture (before and after placement).

[thanksgivingmom]

Lots of thoughts......

First is, if you think to ask us I'd ask the emom you match with....if it's important enough to come to us to talk about, then in MY OPINION it's important enough to talk to the woman you hope to enter an open adoption with. Just my two cents there

I think the problem for me with you NOT asking is the implication that the reaction may ruin a match...if it DOES then maybe it wasn't the match for you.

Okay, now for ME PERSONALLY, I wouldn't have wanted Cupcake to be breastfed by her Mom.

Melissa said "nursing is about food primarily" - and while I understand the nutritional aspect, it's about SO MUCH MORE as well. I admit (and I know this is selfish) that I have an "ick" factor to it as well. NOT because of any cultural reasons or anything, but because it's something that my body was supposed to provide. I know it's selfish, and maybe silly, but I feel like breastfeeding is that step to being erased completely. If her Mom can do EVERYTHING I can, then what good am I? (Now I KNOW this is irrational, and like I said, possibly silly, I'm just tossing out some hard honesty). Do I just get erased into the abyss? Am I forgotten? Obsolete? Was I just an incubator? (I told you this would be ugly and selfish, but it's honest, so please, no flaming). I'm not saying ANYONE here feels this way about first moms, but if it makes ME feel that way about myself, than it's not healthy for me, and it's not where I'd want my daughter.

And, for the record, I placed two years ago and I didn't know until participating here that ABF was practiced - so no, I wouldn't have thought to ask.

If the bmom has a genetic disease that could be passed to her child, that you've never heard of and didn't ask specifically about because you didn't know it existed, wouldn't you still want to know??? I realize it's different, but I think you would have every right to be angry that she didn't disclose. If her answer was, "Well, you didn't ask! If it was so important to you that the child not have X then you should have asked...."

Honesty = best policy.

(PS all caps were emphasis, not yelling It takes less time to caps lock than click bold or italics and I'm lazy )

[melissa_bear003]

Originally Posted by JustPeachy

I am not trying to be antagonisitc (I hope my question doesn't come off this way), but I would like to ask the amoms if they were unable to breastfeed for whatever reason, if they would feel comfortable letting the birthmother breastfeed their child. What about another woman altogether? A wetnurse or friend or other relative? Or another amom who had induced lactation?

I'm not an amom (yet) but I have nursed 4 kids for varying degrees of time, the shortest being 8 mths.

I'm trying to imagine this. Part of me, with the concerns about formula going around thinks that breastmilk would just simply be the optimal thing, period...but I'm also thinking that if *I* couldn't nurse, I would want the breastmilk in a bottle, not 'from the tap' so to speak.

I guess its because I have nursed. There's nothing that so strongly signifies the bond of mother and child than the sight of a baby nursing. Having experienced that first hand, I'm honestly not able to say that I would be comfortable with another nursing my child.

But, as I say, its not a situation I've had to actually deal with, so I'm going on supposition.

[melissa_bear003]

Originally Posted by thanksgivingmom

Melissa said "nursing is about food primarily"

Just a quick correction...I said, "for some parents nursing is about food primarily."

I know there's a lot more to it than that, but a number of parents make the decision to breastfeed with other factors than bonding as the main reasons.

For me, the initial reasons were finances, health, and laziness.

The cost of formula just about had me pass out at the grocery store. Breastfeeding is better for baby. And the idea of making, heating bottles at 3 am vs tucking baby in with me for a feed and drifting off to sleep...well, those were my primary reasons for nursing with my first child. Bonding wasn't something that dawned on me at all, until after I was already nursing.

[thanksgivingmom]

Originally Posted by melissa_bear003

[I'm honestly not able to say that I would be comfortable with another nursing my child.[/b]

I think this is exactly why I have a problem with it.....I know that my child is now D's child - I really do - and I've come to terms with that on SOOOO many levels. Cupcake running to her when she's hurt, calling out Mama and going to D - I GET it, I really do.

But in the beginning, when my body was producing milk that was a constant (and painful - physically and emotionally) reminder that I had just brought a child into this world that I WASN'T bfeeding, I don't think I could handle the thought of someone else doing it.

Again, I apologize if I offend, I'm just trying to offer my absolute most honest opinion.

[thanksgivingmom]

Originally Posted by melissa_bear003

Just a quick correction...I said, "for some parents nursing is about food primarily."

My apologies Melissa

(I'm multi-tasking and scribbling notes down and I didn't write the whole quote!)

[dawnrenee58]

Originally Posted by melissa_bear003

For me, the initial reasons were finances, health, and laziness.

Yup. Same here. I have recently stopped nursing my 18 month old bio son, and am so sad. He was ready, but I certainly was not. I loved BF and would have done so for years. Now I have to make up sippy cups of milk and heat them up. I was spoiled by BF! It is easier and at least I know what is going in to his body. With the horomones in EVERYTHING and the astronomical cost of organic milk, I am hurting here.

I will attempt to BF any other kids we will have. If we adopt again, I will induce lactation. I believe it is best for the baby. For now, it is normal for me, and I expect to do it again.

[aclee]

Originally Posted by thanksgivingmom

Lots of thoughts......

First is, if you think to ask us I'd ask the emom you match with....if it's important enough to come to us to talk about, then in MY OPINION it's important enough to talk to the woman you hope to enter an open adoption with. Just my two cents there

I think the problem for me with you NOT asking is the implication that the reaction may ruin a match...if it DOES then maybe it wasn't the match for you.

Okay, now for ME PERSONALLY, I wouldn't have wanted Cupcake to be breastfed by her Mom.

Melissa said "nursing is about food primarily" - and while I understand the nutritional aspect, it's about SO MUCH MORE as well. I admit (and I know this is selfish) that I have an "ick" factor to it as well. NOT because of any cultural reasons or anything, but because it's something that my body was supposed to provide. I know it's selfish, and maybe silly, but I feel like breastfeeding is that step to being erased completely. If her Mom can do EVERYTHING I can, then what good am I? (Now I KNOW this is irrational, and like I said, possibly silly, I'm just tossing out some hard honesty). Do I just get erased into the abyss? Am I forgotten? Obsolete? Was I just an incubator? (I told you this would be ugly and selfish, but it's honest, so please, no flaming). I'm not saying ANYONE here feels this way about first moms, but if it makes ME feel that way about myself, than it's not healthy for me, and it's not where I'd want my daughter.

And, for the record, I placed two years ago and I didn't know until participating here that ABF was practiced - so no, I wouldn't have thought to ask.

If the bmom has a genetic disease that could be passed to her child, that you've never heard of and didn't ask specifically about because you didn't know it existed, wouldn't you still want to know??? I realize it's different, but I think you would have every right to be angry that she didn't disclose. If her answer was, "Well, you didn't ask! If it was so important to you that the child not have X then you should have asked...."

Honesty = best policy.

(PS all caps were emphasis, not yelling It takes less time to caps lock than click bold or italics and I'm lazy )

I just want to say that I empathize with what you are saying, but another way you could look at it TGM is that amom was just making another sacrifice for Cupcake, (adoptive BF is not easy, and involves some sacrifices for the amom) and you were smart and thoughtful enought to want the very best for your child. You don't strike me as the kind of lady that would want Cupcake to do without if you couldn't be the one who did it, you know? I think bmom's that place with an amom that BF can pat themselves on the back! I wish I could have done it, and I would have wanted a bmom that was ok with it. But I also REALLY wanted a baby, so I'm not sure I would have shared till after TPR. (yes I get that is wrong, but I was less experienced then!) It IS personal, and can be a deal breaker for some of the same reasons that TGM mentioned...I didn't ask M is she BF in the hospital, because that was her time with Ty. If she did, and didn't want to share that with me, or the doctors or whatever, that's her choice. I think that can go both ways. I think if you are BF before TPR is signed, then she has to know though...

Us Amom's have such hurdles to jump when we become Mom to a child...*if* we can BF, that helps knock some of them down, and allows a jump start on a healthy relationship...wanting a healthy relationship for your placed child is a great thing...

Like we ALL always say...it's about the kid, not about amom vs bmom.

(also, amom can't do EVERYTHING you can do TGM. She couldn't carry, give birth, or see Cupcake in those first minutes of her beautiful life...you would always have that...nothing amom can do that even comes close, or gets her those memories)

[thanksgivingmom]

Thanks Aclee....and like I said, I realize that my thoughts are selfish and perhaps silly. Intellectually I *know* that breastmilk is best for a baby, and of course I want whats best for Cupcake....but it does put us in a predicament.

(And I"m not saying you're saying this next part.....)

It suggests that if we're NOT supportive of ABF then we really DON'T want what's best for our kids, or that we DON'T want a healthy relationship between our kids and their parents. Of COURSE I wanted that. I was turned away at the hospital when I went to visit Cupcake because I was told she was with D and that I couldn't see her. I was told she was spending time with her Mom and that I had to wait until she left if I wanted to see her in the NICU.

That hurt like hell. And I probably could have thrown some fit or done something to see her - but I thought what was best was for her to bond with her Mom. I sacrificed plenty for what's best for her, and to encourage a healthy relationship between her and D from the start. I just wasn't ready to sacrifice everything.

[Stormster]

I understand the emotional aspect but why the "ick factor?"

I admit i had a major case of the icks when i first heard about it. Now I just don't think I could emotionally handle it for several different reasons.

[aclee]

Originally Posted by thanksgivingmom

Thanks Aclee....and like I said, I realize that my thoughts are selfish and perhaps silly. Intellectually I *know* that breastmilk is best for a baby, and of course I want whats best for Cupcake....but it does put us in a predicament.

(And I"m not saying you're saying this next part.....)

It suggests that if we're NOT supportive of ABF then we really DON'T want what's best for our kids, or that we DON'T want a healthy relationship between our kids and their parents. Of COURSE I wanted that. I was turned away at the hospital when I went to visit Cupcake because I was told she was with D and that I couldn't see her. I was told she was spending time with her Mom and that I had to wait until she left if I wanted to see her in the NICU.

That hurt like hell. And I probably could have thrown some fit or done something to see her - but I thought what was best was for her to bond with her Mom. I sacrificed plenty for what's best for her, and to encourage a healthy relationship between her and D from the start. I just wasn't ready to sacrifice everything.

TGM, you made the ultimate sacrifice for Cupcake, so you can draw the line where ever, and how ever you want. You know that's your right without me telling you Just wanted to give you another way to think about it. Not that there is much chance of her starting to BF a 2 year old

[binkybear]

I'm following this conversation and finding so many eyeopeners in the honesty and obvious raw emotions this brings with it. I have to say I am saddened to a degree that this of all things would be a controling factor that defines motherhood. I know that's a rather raw statment but I read some things here and outside of this particular thread and I see a slant on what defines motherhood in general. I personally relaly disike the sentences(not in this thread) that sum up motherhood as boo boos, puke fests, potty training, and feedings. I do all of that day in and day out with my niece and I am not nor will I ever be in her eyes her mommy. I've fed her bottles as she layed on my chest, I've rocked her to sleep, gave her her first dose of medicine in life when my sister was at work BUT my sister is 100% her mommy becuase of the bond they have not just from birth but from all the other seconds and milliseconds of every single day. I can't imagine breast feeding alone adding to or taking from them. If defining that aspect brings peace to a woman placing a child then she's found the correct family for her baby. But as a PAP I now almost want to know about this regardless if I was planning to BF or not, now that I see this issue out here I think I want to know now for my own peace of mind, is that silly or just emotion from the thread (don't know right off). I almost want to know that emom wants for her child to bond on deep levels with me whether via breastfeeding or not. imo that's a healthy desire for any foundation of mother child and family. Those are just my personal thoughts on it and not intended to offend anyone or written to anyone in particular who's spoken to this thread. Wow, this is deep!!!

[thanksgivingmom]

Originally Posted by aclee

TGM, you made the ultimate sacrifice for Cupcake, so you can draw the line where ever, and how ever you want. You know that's your right without me telling you Just wanted to give you another way to think about it. Not that there is much chance of her starting to BF a 2 year old

Thanks again Aclee

I always appreciate the opportunity to hear other sides and think about things differently....in all honestly, my opinion today is one that's developped over the past two years....I don't know how much I would say the same two years ago.

Back then I was especially agreeable and naive and probably would have gone along with whatever I was told was best. It's more one of those "if I had to do it all over again...." kind of thoughts.