[devildogwife]

Originally Posted by JenC

Ok, so who wants to answer my totally ignorant question about uncirc'd adults....cause the only intact one I know of is my 1 yr old! Since we'll have to teach him everything, I need to know someday...

good gravy, I can't believe I'm even blushing a little just to type this!

Jen, feel free to pm me if you'd feel more comfortable. I may be able to answer your questions. My DH is uncirced.

[gracemetcalf]

Originally Posted by Saya

OK, is anyone else going back over their past, red faced, to try and figure this out?

I was rather more interested whether there exists quantitative data on the rate of circumscision among various racial or cultural groups.

ETA: To answer my own questions, here's what I found: According to one study (Circumcision in the United States: Prevalence, Prophylactic Effects, and Sexual Practice) the circumcision rate among whites is 81%, blacks 65%, Hispanics 54%

[sbaglio]

Okay, I have to join this incredibly embarrassing conversation here...

I went to all-boys, British-style elementary and secondary schools. Believe me - comparing p3nises was THE LAST THING any teenage boy was doing in the locker room. BELIEVE ME. We all tried to get in and out of the shower and under a towel as quickly as is humanly possible. I used to thank my lucky stars that without my glasses on, I was as blind as a bat.

[aclee]

Originally Posted by sbaglio

British-style

I don't think you had to say more than that We could have inferred the rest. Just teasing you!

I don't think it's something that happens as much as we parents think it happens in the locker rooms...but there IS bullying and teasing that happens...for the American-style...

My sister teaches 1st grade, after 2 years a while ago of teaching 5th. You wouldn't believe the discussions the kids had about each others privates, who had what, and who got made fun of for having or not having...

5th grade!

I think as you get older, it can happen more with sports teams that with a general locker room of boys...

I know Storm and I have discussed this at length prior to this thread because she is Jewish, and I'm not and DH isn't, and assumptions she made about him...let's say we discussed things our DH's might not have been completely comfortable with.

I'm comfortable with what Ty's got. I honestly felt like it's not my place to decide if it's fair or not fair, cause I don't have one. I can't say that sensation is less, or better or not better or one way isn't good. DH knows what he knows, so I rely on him to make those choices, given he has WAY more education on the topic than I do, or could even hope to read. I can read 1 million pages on line and to me, that's less than someone that's been there. ...all I can do is butt in with the female point of view, and facts I can dig up on line. Now if we had a girl and were talking about female parts...that would be different.

I'm not saying my opinion doesn't mean anything..I just feel like my opinion is different than someone who has the goods that we're talking about "cutting"...If a guy is cut, and thinks it's the way to go, who am *I* to tell him the being cut is wrong...he's GOT it...

I know 3 uncut little boys...all of them are under the age of I guess 5 now (I can't believe that they are so big) 2 of them had to be circ'd later, and one had a procedure to remove the foreskin after it had adhered. I know how much pain those little ones were in AFTER the surgery, regardless of how much medication they used during. Tyler was in no pain after. I was always so gentle when I changed his diaper cared for it...and he never cared one bit. Put him in a poopy diaper and he cared a whole lot, but never cared when I was cleaning his circ site. It was only 48 hours of special care on it, but I was a nervous nelly and put the ointment stuff on for like a week...lol. I had already been with the little boy who had the adhered skin, and when they told me the ointment kept it from adhering...you better believe I was putting that stuff all over it...I think we went through three tubes of A & D that one week alone. DH finally had to tell me enough was enough...it was fine.

Anyway, I don't have a p3nis...so I just did the best I could with the little boy that was meant to be mine He happens to be circ'd. I can't say if I would have made that same choice or not...maybe we'll end up with another little boy and I'll have to decide then.

In the meantime, like every controversial issue, there is plenty of arguement for both sides. Clearly if it was a cut and dried issue it wouldn't be allowed anymore. There is nothing insurance companies like more than to not pay for things. Tyler was covered by Medicaid and even they paid for it.

[melissa_bear003]

Well, I know of 2 littles that had to be done due to complications. One, his foreskin was growing in a way that was twisting his p3nis, and the 2nd was like Aclee mentioned, had adhered.

Both boys needed to be knocked out for it, with all the associated dangers with that, and it was far more traumatic for them than if they'd been done as infants.

Both my sons are done. My eldest, his bdad was done, as were all the men in my family. My youngest, I left it up to my dh. Figured it didn't matter to me one way or the other, and since dh has a p3nis, he'd be the best one to make the call. He wanted our son circ'd, so he was.

And to add...my eldest was done via the Plastibell method. No cut, no sore, nada. Just dried and fell off like the umbilical cord. Why they quit doing that is beyond me.

As parents, we decide what is non negotiable and what we can bend on. Circ is just one of those issues.

[nurse_reedle]

Unfortunately, in the US, even doctors are so (honestly) uneducated on what constitutes a need for circumcision. You can't tell in a little boy if it is "adhered" because it is supposed to be. Even sometimes until they are adults. And there are methods that are so much less invasive than circing. There is only reasons that circing is ever truly a medical necessity are:

Like every part of the body, the foreskin has the potential to develop malignancies. Malignancy of the foreskin is extremely rare (approximately 1 in 100,000) and occurs mostly in older men. It is appropriate to treat this cancer by removing the cancerous region of the tissue. The only other medical reasons to amputate foreskin tissue are frostbite and gangrene of the foreskin, also extremely rare.

Many doctors will say that circing is necessary, when it really isn't. It is just seen as the easy fix in the US. It makes me feel sad for the parents. As parents, we all want to be able to trust our doctors to tell us every option. On circing, most doctors give that as the only option.

[nurse_reedle]

Originally Posted by melissa_bear003

Both boys needed to be knocked out for it, with all the associated dangers with that, and it was far more traumatic for them than if they'd been done as infants.

This is an assumption. There is*no way* for you to judge that it was more or less traumatic....there are plenty of newborn babies that have traumatic circs. If they had been done as babies, their's may very well have been just as traumatic. We also can't accurately judge the trauma someone else feels....especially if they can't talk to us. There are lots of people that can be in excrucitating pain and you won't know unless you know what and how to ask. You might have this opinion about their circs, but you just can't state it as fact.

[manni28]

Circing has NOTHING to do with cleanliness. It is actually harder to clean a cut p3nis when they are little. I draw the line at cleanliness...no matter the state of cut or un-cut. If you won't go there in your dating life...that is your loss! So...it is ok to refuse to date someone that is not cut, but it isn't ok to want to be in an adoption situation where the expectant mother and I are on the same page??? Where is there logic in that?

I’m not arguing with you ( I could care less what you decide) I was just asking a non-judgmental question. Sometimes being “cut” does have a lot to do with cleanliness-as I stated before, some men don’t clean themselves properly.

-Manni

[aclee]

Ty was given local something or other for his. I figured they were all done that way now. I don't think it's painless, but there are a lot of things in life that we "do" to our children that aren't painless that we, as their parent, determine to be in their best interest. Others can agree or disagree...don't really matter...

Maybe Melissa Bear can't say for fact, but I'm telling you 1 million percent. All three boys that *I* know were in a LOT LOT LOT more pain after their surgeries than Ty was after his. A LOT more. Hours of crying. Every time they peed they were hysterical. One got a bladder infection because he was holding his pee for so long. I have experienced one infant that had it done who had no pain by the time I saw him, which was about 3 hours after the surgery, and I have experienced 3 toddlers/children, who I saw days after who were in a lot of pain. I was crying for one of them because he was in so much pain and nothing was touching it...

[Fran27]

I wonder how many children who were circumsized had to have the surgery redone later because the skin was growing back though? I know it happens. It's probably as traumatic for the child too. Just shows that either way there is no guarantee there won't be a surgery later on (although I also think that circumcising just because the skin 'reattached' is probably extreme).

It's funny that you mentioned your dh. Mine is circumsized and is strongly against it. He's always wondering 'what if I wasn't'. I guess the theories that circumcising was done to diminish sexual pleasure and thus prevent men from having sex just for pleasure don't help.

I'm surprised nobody mentioned those New Zealand studies about how uncircumsized men give more pleasure to women though

[sbaglio]

Doesn't this thread have an 'R' rating yet?!

[DPline]

Originally Posted by sbaglio

Doesn't this thread have an 'R' rating yet?!

I am thinking maybe NC-17.

[NicoleP80]

My son cried when the epi was given to numb him but fell asleep about 30 seconds later with his binky and he slept through the rest of the procedure of the actual removal of the foreskin. He only woke up for a breif moment when I put his jammies back on. We on our way and all was well.

I too am a nurse and I have assisted in MANY circ's. Not sure I will circ another boy, only b/c I felt it kinda pointless. My husband is not circ'd but he wanted our two current son's circ'd.

[lovemy2boys]

Originally Posted by sbaglio

Doesn't this thread have an 'R' rating yet?!

I'm still giggling like a 13 year old thinking of you running half blind through the locker room...

[melissa_bear003]

Originally Posted by nurse_reedle

This is an assumption. There is*no way* for you to judge that it was more or less traumatic....there are plenty of newborn babies that have traumatic circs. If they had been done as babies, their's may very well have been just as traumatic. We also can't accurately judge the trauma someone else feels....especially if they can't talk to us. There are lots of people that can be in excrucitating pain and you won't know unless you know what and how to ask. You might have this opinion about their circs, but you just can't state it as fact.

No way for me to judge? Are you serious? How about the fact that I saw both these older boys and the incredible pain they were in, and had 2 infants done myself and there is a HUGE difference. HUGE.

And sorry, but when the p3nis is twisting because of the foreskin, and a urologist at Sick Kids Hospital tells the parents that it needs to be done, I think that he'd know what he's talking about. Same with the urologist that saw the other child.