[kakuehl]

Originally Posted by nurse_reedle

I *absolutely* do not ever forget that. I am getting a sense that we as prospective adoptive parents shouldn't think about these things or should just be so grateful for a chance to parent that we should just over look the things that are important to us. I already care *so much* about any future children we have, that I can't back burner important issues to me. I am certain there will be an expectant mother that appreciates the fact that our decisions, and in turn her decisions, are very, very important to us. Important enough to not shy away from talking about.

I was not referring to you, and I appreciate that this is an important issue for you. I agree it is important to discuss this with prospective matches. My concern was that some posters (by no means all, or even most) give me the impression that they think the emom should have very few rights. There may be some birthmoms who have relinquished easily and without pain... I personally haven't met any. Again, the process of adoption has changed so much in the 36 years since I experienced it. Scamming, for example, at least by women who were pregnant or pretending to be, was to the best of my knowledge, non existant. You all face many challenges in your quest to adopt and I wish you well.

[SupaModel]

I DO NOT want to start a debate but just curious. For those who are so dead set against being circ'ed can someone tell me why? I just never thought it was an issues and I am very interested in hearing your thoughts.

You can totally PM me if you perfer.

[Leigh131313]

I think you have your answer - if it's important, discuss it with the emom.

I wouldn't worry too much about it. In MY experience, emom's considering adoption WANT the aparents to make these important decisions - they are chosing you because they trust and have confidence in your abilities.
If you DO happen to meet someone who feels strongly against your beliefs, it's not a good match - or you may want to consider compromising your beliefs - that's up to you!!

You are also going to have to really sort out your thoughts as far as a "child born" situation. How will you feel if the child is already circ'd. Will this be a deciding factor for you.

It's totally OK to know what you are and are not ok with. Go with your heart - make the decision tht is best for YOUR family.

[belleinblue1978]

Originally Posted by SupaModel

I DO NOT want to start a debate but just curious. For those who are so dead set against being circ'ed can someone tell me why? I just never thought it was an issues and I am very interested in hearing your thoughts.

You can totally PM me if you perfer.

My son was in enough pain, I didn't think that it was necessary to circ him and add to it.

Also, and this is just me, but unless you have religious reasons, circumcision is a cosmetic surgery.

[mumofone]

In our area, emoms/dads can only sign documents after 17 days have passed. With our oldest, his parents waited 2 1/2 months. They had every right to name him, etc. Until the documents are signed, they are the parents.

[devildogwife]

Originally Posted by belleinblue1978

My son was in enough pain, I didn't think that it was necessary to circ him and add to it.

Also, and this is just me, but unless you have religious reasons, circumcision is a cosmetic surgery.

I totally agree! There was no reason to inflict additional pain on my son for something that was totally unecessary. If I had a daughter, I wouldn't circ her (yes this is done in parts of Africa and the Middle East), so I wouldn't do that to a son.

[aclee]

Originally Posted by SupaModel

I DO NOT want to start a debate but just curious. For those who are so dead set against being circ'ed can someone tell me why? I just never thought it was an issues and I am very interested in hearing your thoughts.

You can totally PM me if you perfer.

NE StatePaper.com - Circumcision Is Barbaric And Unnecessary

There are a lot reasons on both sides. Some are stated in the link above. Some are that if God wanted a baby to have no foreskin, he would make a baby with no foreskin. Many believe it is unnecessary and cruel. Benifits do not outweigh the risks etc. AAP has not recommended it as routine since the 70's.

Circumcision Policy Statement -- Task Force on Circumcision 103 (3): 686 -- AAP Policy

There are some benefits to circumsion and the AAP recommends that parents be aware of all aspects and make their choice accordingly.

[SupaModel]

Originally Posted by aclee

NE StatePaper.com - Circumcision Is Barbaric And Unnecessary

There are a lot reasons on both sides. Some are stated in the link above. Some are that if God wanted a baby to have no foreskin, he would make a baby with no foreskin. Many believe it is unnecessary and cruel. Benifits do not outweigh the risks etc. AAP has not recommended it as routine since the 70's.

Circumcision Policy Statement -- Task Force on Circumcision 103 (3): 686 -- AAP Policy

There are some benefits to circumsion and the AAP recommends that parents be aware of all aspects and make their choice accordingly.

Thanks girlie!!

[gigigeorge]

Originally Posted by SupaModel

I DO NOT want to start a debate but just curious. For those who are so dead set against being circ'ed can someone tell me why? I just never thought it was an issues and I am very interested in hearing your thoughts.

You can totally PM me if you perfer.

Unless, like OP said it was for religious reasons, Why Would you?? Generally when you get an infection that is due to the foreskin its because someone (be it the parents or even a Dr.) pull back the foreskin introducing bacteria. In a uncut child the foreskin isnt meant to be pulled back, even for cleaning and is attched until about age 3... it requires no special cleaning, no special anything. And its the way they were made who are we to interfere? lol

gina.

[dawnrenee58]

I have to admit, until my son came home at 14 months uncirced, I would have done it on a newborn without even thinking twice. When T came home, it was a 10 second discussion between my husband and I. Should we get him circumcized? No. Ok! That was the extent of it. Why put him through a surgery he doesn't need? To look like my husband? Ummm...my husband is a lot older, and hairier than Timo. So already there are two things that look different. And he has a big belly, while T is skinny. Is it really going to matter that their man parts match? I don't think so!
When we got pregnant and found out it was going to be a boy, it was another 10 second discussion. Actually, at the elevator after the ultrasound. Are we going to circ this one? No. OK!
I am so glad we found our way into this situation. I am now a believer that only in a religious situation should boys be circ'ed. But, that is my opinion, and as long as you KNOW why you believe the way you do, I am fine with yours. Just don't be ignorant of the reasons for/against like I was!

[loveajax]

this is sort of ot...but I rep'd a woman in a pro bono political asylum case...her claim was based on her fear of having to undergo female genital mutilation from her tribe in africa....horrific. I don't have a son so I don't have to face that choice.(we won btw....yeah!)I think it's good,op, that you know this is an important issue that you will discuss upfront...gl!

[elledarcy]

I had thought about this too so thanks for bringing it up. Can you tell your agency your wishes so they can make sure to match you with an e-mom who is like-minded (in this case, you wouldn't even want a call about a born baby who had already been circ'ed)?

If something is a big deal to you, then you don't have to just let it go. Yes, you may have to wait longer to find an e-mom who is willing to agree, but you shouldn't compromise your beliefs if it's very important to you.

[aclee]

Originally Posted by gigigeorge

Unless, like OP said it was for religious reasons, Why Would you?? Generally when you get an infection that is due to the foreskin its because someone (be it the parents or even a Dr.) pull back the foreskin introducing bacteria. In a uncut child the foreskin isnt meant to be pulled back, even for cleaning and is attched until about age 3... it requires no special cleaning, no special anything. And its the way they were made who are we to interfere? lol

gina.

I just have to say that I LOVE the fact the religous circ'ing gets the totally free pass, but the "this is what I wanted to do with my kid, not what I was religously mandated to do" gets judged...

That's awesome. So if someone else tells you that you have to, it's fine, but if it's your acutal choice to do it...it's not? How does that make sense????

[nurse_reedle]

Well, I personally don't go for the "religious" reasoning either. ;-) However, I do *not* judge the *person* for doing what they feel is right, even though I have extremely strong feelings on the subject. I wish everyone would get informed about circing, I wish everyone would make the same decision we do, yet I also acknowledge and respect people's right to choose as they see fit....because I want to retain the right to do what I think is best as well. My feelings run so deeply that even would like to see circing outlawed (unless truly medically necessary) same as female circing is...but with the religious factors, I don't know that we will ever see that day. I know that will probably steam some people up...and that is not my intention. I personally feel they are equally as wrong (male and female circ).


For those that are curious about our reasons that we are so adamanatly against it....

1.) It removes an organ with a dual purpose. The first part of that purpose is to lubricate the glans of the p3nis, making int3rcourse more enjoyable for both people and keeping the glans from getting calloused. The second part is to protect the glans. It does this by protecting the glans from injury and when the bacterial balance is not right to protect from infection, it tightens somewhat on the glans to keep germs from getting in. It is a pretty amazing little organ. It was neat to see this at work in our son after being on long term antibiotics the bacterial ablance was out of whack...after some internal and topical acidophilus (3 days) that balance was back and the glans was again loose and easy to move. Very fascinating stuff.

2.) I have religious reasons against circing. The Bible states in Hebrews 8:8-12; I Cor. 7:18-19; Gal. 5:6; Romans 2:28-29; Deut. 10:16 and 30:6; Jer. 4:4; and Col. 2:11 all (I believe) point to physical circumcision being completely unnecessary from a Biblical standpoint, because it is only the circumcision of our hearts that God cares about, not that of our bodies.

3.) There is no other organ in or on our bodies that we remove for the *potential* for a problem. We do not remove appendixes, gallbladders, toenails, tonsils, breasts...or any other organ because something may go wrong with it later. It is taken care of as it happens. There is also no other organ that is removed for the typical infection...the infection is treated and we go on our merry way. Why on earth would we surgically remove a part of the body that can be treated completely non-invasively??

4.) The studies that show that circumcision decrease the chance to spread HIV I believe are skewed (they brought some men in Africa in, circed them, taught them safe sex practices and then compared their rates of HIV to those that were not circed or educated. You can't compare that. The education was probably more effective than the circ, IMO.) also, I believe that those studies give boys/men false security if they are circed. Besides...I am going to circ my son incase he is promiscuous later in life? I am going to assume he will be? If he is, he can weight the data and make the choice for circing if he wants to. I am not doing it for him.

5.) Penile cancer. The risk is so low anyway....I don't know how they can get accurate results to prove it is that much lower if lower at all. Men in Europe don't have a high incidence of penile cancer and they don't circ.

6.) To prevent cervical cancer. Yeah that is usually caused by HPV and that can be transmitted either way. Besides, cervical cancer is also quite easily treated in most (yes, please note I said most) cases. It is more likely, by far, to appear in a promiscous girl, regardless of the cut of the p3nises she is with.

Anyway, those are the main reasons.

[nurse_reedle]

Oh, I wanted to add 4 more reasons I forgot to put.

7.) I have SEEN circing done (I am a nurse) and :-O NO WAY! It is not a nice procedure. The foreskin is adhered to the glans similar to your fingernail to the bed and the literally rip it free and cu it off, oftne by crushing it until the blood flow is sufficiently cut off. This is still often done with no pain or very little pain management in infants. How would your feel if someone came up and just ripped of your entire nail? I know how bad it hurts when I even accidently cut too far.

8.) I don't understand how some people can act as though it should be less painful or traumatic to an infant. Because they can't remember? At least adult men get proper pain management! And put to sleep for the procedure itself.

9.) There are studies that show that the trauma of a routine infant circumcision is enough to alter the way the brain processes pain forever. National Organization of Circumcision Information (NOCIRC) on circumcision, foreskin: The Pain of Circumcision Impacts Babies (and the Adults They Become)

10.) Circing has shown to make breastfeeing harder to intiate and to interrupt sleep patterns in babies. (see link above on that too.)

For more information you can visit: National Organization of Circumcision Information Resource Centers

NotJustSkin.org -- Main Page

Mothers Against Circumcision


All have links to more information.