[binkybear]

Originally Posted by Fran27

Lots of non religious people celebrate it too (I've honestly never met people who don't), so it's really more about the tree, the decorations, and the spirit, than Santa and Jesus, I think.

Fran, no disrespect to you here. I'm not writing "to you", just quoting the statement here as I knew this one would come up eventually...but anyone...anyone at all..who celebrates "Christmas" without Jesus being part of it (let alone lumping Him in with Santa Claus) is simply a bona fide cotton headed ninny muggins*.
*("Elf" reference)

This one just bugs the stuffing outta me. I mean come on already with the laziness of simply absorbing whatever's around you with little or no conviction to what you believe in...or what others believe in. Start a new holiday...call it something else...maybe look into Festivus.

But don't celebrate Christmas if you don't believe in Christ.

[nurse_reedle]

Originally Posted by melissa_bear003

I don't see anyone saying that at all. People are talking about why its important to THEM. Just the same as some people denounce Santa as lying to children, which can offend some who choose to continue this tradition with their kids, so I guess others that choose not to can get offended by people talking about cherished memories and magic they felt when they believed in Santa.
*shrugs*
All in perspective. I haven't read anyone here that attempted to try and tell another parent why they should/shouldn't do Santa with their kids, so I was taking it as being a respectful discussion.

Actually, if you look back through the posts...there was at least one reference specifically to the point that to not believe or have children believe in Santa is to "deprive" them. Those were the things I was referring to. Talking about each persons indiviual experience of Christmas....that is just beautiful and I love reading everyone's stories!!

[aclee]

Originally Posted by SupaModel

BTW - I grew up in apts and I used to wonder how would Santa get in our apt because we didnt have a chimney

I grew up with fireplaces in both my childhood homes...but my Dad got REALLY tired of cleaning them out when we were younger (I'm told)...Apparently he was really close to spiling the beans one Christmas eve when he spent an hour cleaning out the fireplace to our specifications. We made special cookies for Santa and he ate one once (cookies on the counter, how's a Dad to know?) and I guess my sister and I were sitting on the floor BAWLING...

We leave carrots of the reindeer too. One year they were half eaten and my sister and I wondered why Santa brought the half eaten carrot BACK in the house...so my Dad told us he must have brought them in to warm up. We were SO thrilled that we could tell our friends that the REINDEER were in our house too!!!

[feelingreyt]

Originally Posted by aclee

We leave carrots of the reindeer too. One year they were half eaten and my sister and I wondered why Santa brought the half eaten carrot BACK in the house...so my Dad told us he must have brought them in to warm up. We were SO thrilled that we could tell our friends that the REINDEER were in our house too!!!

LOL, we leave carrots for the reindeer as well. And we always leave just a little with nibble marks. I wonder if the kids ever wondered about that!

As children, my sisters and I only left milk and cookies for Santa. Those poor reindeer were out of luck at our house, LOL. To be honest, we never thought about it. My DD actually told me we needed to provide a snack for Rudolf and his friends!

[melissa_bear003]

Originally Posted by binkybear

Fran, no disrespect to you here. I'm not writing "to you", just quoting the statement here as I knew this one would come up eventually...but anyone...anyone at all..who celebrates "Christmas" without Jesus being part of it (let alone lumping Him in with Santa Claus) is simply a bona fide cotton headed ninny muggins*.
*("Elf" reference)

This one just bugs the stuffing outta me. I mean come on already with the laziness of simply absorbing whatever's around you with little or no conviction to what you believe in...or what others believe in. Start a new holiday...call it something else...maybe look into Festivus.

But don't celebrate Christmas if you don't believe in Christ.

I honestly find it offensive that you'd try and tell someone what they had to believe in order to celebrate a holiday, that for some, is about family, good will to fellow men, etc...but isn't Christian.

I wouldn't dream of telling ANYONE what they could and couldn't celebrate in their own home...and btw, 'Christmas' started out as a Pagan holiday. Christ was born in the spring, but His birth is celebrated in Dec because it was believed easier for those of Pagan beliefs to switch over.

Freedom of religion. That pretty much sums it up.

[binkybear]

Originally Posted by melissa_bear003

I honestly find it offensive that you'd try and tell someone what they had to believe in order to celebrate a holiday, that for some, is about family, good will to fellow men, etc...but isn't Christian.

I wouldn't dream of telling ANYONE what they could and couldn't celebrate in their own home...and btw, 'Christmas' started out as a Pagan holiday. Christ was born in the spring, but His birth is celebrated in Dec because it was believed easier for those of Pagan beliefs to switch over.

Freedom of religion. That pretty much sums it up.

LOL, don't get offended. Sorry but I'm not telling you or anyone else anything to get offended about. It's Christmas!! It's Christmas, people might want to believe in Christ to celebrate "Christmas". Freedom of religion doesn't sum it up for the Celebration of Christ's birth..it's not a PC free for all on that one. Sure it's possible to celebrate kindness and peace and love and good will, but don't do it under the guise of something one might not believe in. That was the point.

Timing: If parents can hold a birthday party weeks after a kids birthday for whatever reason they see fit (weather, date of the week it falls on, family scheduels, etc) then so could those who set the date of Christmas way back when. Holidays and timing can get chaged around for all kinds of reasons...shoot we just had Thanksgiving yesterday over here becuase my dad got food poisoning from Bad chinese take out on Wednesday. We knew what the day was about regardless of it's "date or time".

We can play around with everything else, but let's respect what is in fact a specific relgious holiday. It's not offensive, it's reality; Christmas is the celebration of Christ's birth..not a feel good day just because. I respect other religions and their traditions and I'd request mine be respected just the same.

[NicoleP80]

Originally Posted by melissa_bear003

I'm a bad mom. I lie like a cheap rug to my kids. My 10 yo, 3.5 yo, and 2 yo all know and believe in Santa, the Toothfairy, and the Easter Bunny.

and ya know...I love that for them.

I grew up believing too, and it was the best part of my childhood. Once I knew the truth, some of the anticipation, magic, excitment was just gone.

For me, I view it as a tradition, and a chance to use imagination, to really believe in things unknown and unseen, the way only children can. I can't imagine depriving my kids of that. We're a bunch of fantasy freaks

Lets face it. As parents, we lie by omission a lot. We don't tell them about the cruelty of the big world as much as we can possibly avoid it.

Santa is joy, and love, and excitement...and we can all use a little more of that.

I just *LOVE* you. Seriously!!! You are a GREAT parent. I have read your other posts in reguards to things and ya know you are a "real" parent!!!

We have told all our kids that Santa exsists and he comes in a sleigh with reindeer pulling him and he even comes down the chimney and eats the cookies we bake and Ruldolph eats the carrot too...My kids are 13yrs, 11yrs and 8 weeks. My older two kids NEVER ONCE asked me "why I lied to them". Neither child lies to others or to us, we don't worry about that. It is part of their childhood innocence.

[binkybear]

Originally Posted by binkybear

LOL, don't get offended. Sorry but I'm not telling you or anyone else anything to get offended about. It's Christmas!! It's Christmas, people might want to believe in Christ to celebrate "Christmas". Freedom of religion doesn't sum it up for the Celebration of Christ's birth..it's not a PC free for all on that one. Sure it's possible to celebrate kindness and peace and love and good will, but don't do it under the guise of something one might not believe in. That was the point.

Timing: If parents can hold a birthday party weeks after a kids birthday for whatever reason they see fit (weather, date of the week it falls on, family scheduels, etc) then so could those who set the date of Christmas way back when. Holidays and timing can get chaged around for all kinds of reasons...shoot we just had Thanksgiving yesterday over here becuase my dad got food poisoning from Bad chinese take out on Wednesday. We knew what the day was about regardless of it's "date or time".

We can play around with everything else, but let's respect what is in fact a specific relgious holiday. It's not offensive, it's reality; Christmas is the celebration of Christ's birth..not a feel good day just because. I respect other religions and their traditions and I'd request mine be respected just the same.

(wanted to edit, but went over the time alloted...night owl over here!)

Edited to add Just one last thought to try to explain how myself and a great deal of others think:

Imagine your son's birthday is approaching. Your family gets a card celebrating this. It's an invitation celebrating your son's birthday, it's joyous and full of cheer. Those planning the party are incredibly excited about this party. They shop, they plan, they decorate to the hilt. On the day of the celebration friends, neighbors, family and strangers gather in this festive home. Those attending are happy. Your son arrives for his birthday celebration. He's there in the room, his name is scattered about on decorations but no one acknowledges him. The crowd of party goers exchanges gifts they bought for each other, they eat and drink, they don't mention his name or look his way, they don't know or even care that he's there. Your son and your family sit alone, wondering why people would have done this. Why would anyone do this to a son, a friend, a brother? Hold such a gloriously planned celebration and then intentionally ignore the person the day was for. Would your heart break for your son, your friend, your brother? Would you stand up and say, "hey this is a birthday celebration in my brothers name how about acknowledging his existence over here?" Or would you just join the crowd and hope that your son-brother-friend would understand and not be hurt, disappointed, heartbroken. Would you care if you offended those who were using your family member while blatantly choosing to ignore him? Christmas is the celebration of Christ's birthday. He's my brother, my friend and I'm very much ok with standing up to say it's his day! No one "has" to celebrate this day, but if you choose to celebrate in his name then have the courtesy and conviction to do so OR by all means celebrate in another way or name. Don't use a person or a people's belief to feel good. That's my take on it, hope that helps a bit more.

[Wisdom]

Growing up for me Christmas was more a celebration of Christ's birth. Santa was always a fairy tale to us but it didn't take away our fun at Christmas. We'll teach our DS the same. Santa can still be fun even though a fairy tale.

[Daisy1339]

Originally Posted by melissa_bear003

I honestly find it offensive that you'd try and tell someone what they had to believe in order to celebrate a holiday, that for some, is about family, good will to fellow men, etc...but isn't Christian.

I wouldn't dream of telling ANYONE what they could and couldn't celebrate in their own home...and btw, 'Christmas' started out as a Pagan holiday. Christ was born in the spring, but His birth is celebrated in Dec because it was believed easier for those of Pagan beliefs to switch over.

Freedom of religion. That pretty much sums it up.

Amen!

Binkybear, I get what you are saying (albeit passive aggressive), but Christmas has different meanings for everyone. You can insert all of the "LOL!"'s and "elf lingo" you want, but it's clear, to me anyways, that you really aren't being as lighthearted as you're trying very hard to be. It bothers you.

I don't like where this thread is going. It started out really sweet, with stories like aclee's that really brought back wonderful memories. Why does everyone have to grandstand and grab an opportunity to be completely left of center? Not just binkybear, either. Why can't it stay sweet? I get that the OP was asking what you tell your kids about Santa, so please don't reiterate it.

Okay, so you feel it's lying to your kid or you feel there isn't enough Christ in Christmas. Both are valid topics. C'mon, We're talking about Santa, for crying out loud, people.

Everything in life is so severe and raw, anymore. I guess Santa isn't immune.

[qs mom]

Not entirely on the mark. Solstice Day is a pagan holiday. Christmas is a Christian holiday. Hannaka is a Jewish holiday, and I apologize to my Jewish friends I spelled that way wrong. Ramadan is a Muslim holiday. Kwanza is an African American holiday.

They are celebrated around the same time of the year. The US was founded on religious freedom. I think in this country we try to celebrate everything so as not to offend anyone or so that no one's beliefs are missed. This is not a bad thing.

The bad thing is mixing them up and making them interchangable holidays. My Christian Christmas is not the same as my Muslim neighbor's Ramadan. Both are a celebration for the God in which we beleive, but they are not the same.

Christmas is only this commercial in the US, not in any other country. Maybe Canada. In other countries it is a religous Christian celebration and respected as such.

For many years, 100's in fact, the US has been dominated by Christianity as a religion. So Christmas has become the dominent celebration for ALL.

So, unfortunately for Christ, in the US for many, Christ isn't in CHRISTmas. Christmas is the day for everyone to celebrate his or her own beliefs because we don't celebrate the other religious holidays with the same resolve. That is sad.

[joskids]

These threads always seem to get confused by those who think that what THEY believe is the way it SHOUULD be. Everyone has a right to raise their children the way they see fit, from their own experiences with life and how they believe it's best to raise a child up in the world.

We let our children believe in Santa when they are small. BUT, we still give a healthy dose of the religious standpoint of Jesus birth and of how Jesus would want us to help others at this time of year. We never overdo Christmas in terms of gifts, it's just not our way. And I beg to differ on the thought that if someone doesn't believe in Christ they shouldn't celebrate Christmas. What???? We each have a right to believe, to celebrate, to give childhood to our own children the way we see fit and NOT to judge others. It's just not "Christ-like" or good for your Karma.

[SupaModel]

Originally Posted by Daisy1339

Amen!

Binkybear, I get what you are saying (albeit passive aggressive), but Christmas has different meanings for everyone. You can insert all of the "LOL!"'s and "elf lingo" you want, but it's clear, to me anyways, that you really aren't being as lighthearted as you're trying very hard to be. It bothers you.

I don't like where this thread is going. It started out really sweet, with stories like aclee's that really brought back wonderful memories. Why does everyone have to grandstand and grab an opportunity to be completely left of center? Not just binkybear, either. Why can't it stay sweet? I get that the OP was asking what you tell your kids about Santa, so please don't reiterate it.

Okay, so you feel it's lying to your kid or you feel there isn't enough Christ in Christmas. Both are valid topics. C'mon, We're talking about Santa, for crying out loud, people.

Everything in life is so severe and raw, anymore. I guess Santa isn't immune.

Geez... I totally agree. It seems every thread on these boards turn into some kind of drama or what not. I don't know if it's an cyber thing or ppl unhappy IRL but it's getting old and tired. Sometimes I just feel like it's more about conflict than support.

I personally would love more support please!!

[Stormster]

Originally Posted by qs mom

Not entirely on the mark. Solstice Day is a pagan holiday. Christmas is a Christian holiday. Hannaka is a Jewish holiday, and I apologize to my Jewish friends I spelled that way wrong. Ramadan is a Muslim holiday. Kwanza is an African American holiday.

They are celebrated around the same time of the year. The US was founded on religious freedom. I think in this country we try to celebrate everything so as not to offend anyone or so that no one's beliefs are missed. This is not a bad thing.

The bad thing is mixing them up and making them interchangable holidays. My Christian Christmas is not the same as my Muslim neighbor's Ramadan. Both are a celebration for the God in which we beleive, but they are not the same.

Christmas is only this commercial in the US, not in any other country. Maybe Canada. In other countries it is a religous Christian celebration and respected as such.

For many years, 100's in fact, the US has been dominated by Christianity as a religion. So Christmas has become the dominent celebration for ALL.

So, unfortunately for Christ, in the US for many, Christ isn't in CHRISTmas. Christmas is the day for everyone to celebrate his or her own beliefs because we don't celebrate the other religious holidays with the same resolve. That is sad.

I could ask 100 of my British friends and relatives if they consider Christmas a religious holiday or a cultural holiday and all of them would say cultural. Almost every country in Europe is less religious than the USA. Happy to provide you with evidence of this.

I am signing off this thread it is not what i intended it to be. A bunch of negativity, judgements and claims of superiority and in light of the fact that i went out of my way to mention this was indeed a cultural issue for me in the OP TOTALLY inappropriate! Start your own thread!

Later!

[aclee]

I just want to say I was not raised where Christmas was only about Christ. As I said, my family had a VERY rough time religiously and it wasn't something that was really a part of our celebration. I'd appreciate people not looking down on that. I knew what Christmas was based on, and I knew all the traditional parts of it. It wasn't our focus.

When I was 4, almost 5, we stopped going to church. It was the church my father went to his whole life. We found out just after thanksgiving that year that the assistant pastor was molesting 5 of the girls in the sunday school class only an age level above my sister and I. He was taking them into a closet and telling them they would see God. My family moved away from religon at that point and I think no matter how strong your faith, something like that can shake it. I don't blame my father one bit that he focused our family celebrations on family, and not on religon. We still had plenty to celebrate :

To say you shouldn't celebrate holidays unless you are celebrating the religous aspect goes against everything this country was founded on. Valentine's Day is also based on a Saint, and I don't see anyone crying foul when that holiday isn't spent in church.

This thread is about Santa. If you want to start a thread about not telling kids about Santa, or how the Christ in Christmas has gotten lost, go start that thread. I want a thread about Santa...