[KarynB]

Originally Posted by BlessedbySnuggs

In response to an earlier post (sorry, can't remember who first started talking about it) , but M's daycare does require proof of vaccinations before they will allow anyone into the daycare. My daughter's daycare provider is very firm on protecting ALL of the children; just one of the many reasons that we love and trust her!

There is a school/daycare that M will be enrolled in next year and they require the same thing. I think it is starting to be very popular to require vaccinations. There are too many risks (children getting sick/lawsuits, that kind of stuff) too not require it. I love that this is happening; vaccinations protect our children from a lot, but if there is a child that is not vaccinated and catches a life threatening disease, obviously they are affected, but so are other children, vaccinated and not. Vaccinations are great, but not 100%. Quite honestly, it scares me, when I hear more and more people are not vaccinationg their children. It truly scares me.

Sure, but I guess my point is what about kids who can't have vaccines - like HIV+ kids for example with comprimised immune systems. Wouldn't that be discrimination? Or kids whose parents won't vaccinate for religious reasons - they just sign a form saying they don't vaccinate and that is it. What about when your kids go to school - you can't make everyone vaccinate then...

Technically, our school also requires "proof" of vaccinations, but if you say you don't vaccinate for whatever reason, they just get you to sign a form stating those reasons. So it isn't really "proof" after all.

[BlessedbySnuggs]

Hi Karyn,

Well, I don't know how public school works...thank goodness we have time for that. All I know are the rules for this at home daycare and this private school/daycare that she will go to next year. ETA: this is a pretty small private school she will be going to.

I completely understand what you are saying, and I have thought of that, just haven't had to worry yet.

I do believe there are probably exceptions, but it is going to start getting tricky with mandating these rules.

[Sohmakun]

Originally Posted by Stormster

I hope you will be careful and not allow your child to play around children with compromised immune systems. I know there are many parent of medically fragile children who are very vulnerable. Same with infants not yet immunized.

You and DDW are right about this, and I wouldn't deny my child their shots if he/she had medical problems or needed them to go to school.

However, some shots like the chicken pox and flu vaccines are unneccesary to me. I, my parents, my grandparents and my greatgrandparents all had chicken pox and it was NEVER life threatening. The chances of dying from chicken pox are less than 2%. IMHO its "neccesary" shots like these that make my question how much we really need them.

[Sohmakun]

Originally Posted by KarynB

Technically, our school also requires "proof" of vaccinations, but if you say you don't vaccinate for whatever reason, they just get you to sign a form stating those reasons. So it isn't really "proof" after all.

This is how the public schools and daycares in CA work too. After all if someone's religion forbids shots then denying them a spot at your local daycare is considered discrimination.

[sbaglio]

Originally Posted by Sohmakun

However, some shots like the chicken pox and flu vaccines are unneccesary to me. I, my parents, my grandparents and my greatgrandparents all had chicken pox and it was NEVER life threatening. The chances of dying from chicken pox are less than 2%. IMHO its "neccesary" shots like these that make my question how much we really need them.

Sohmakun,
Respectfully, I have seen several children here in the US die of varicella (chicken pox), in the hospital, in front of me. All were children who were on chemotherapy, and were exposed to the virus in the community. I have also seen normal children who didn't get the second VZ vaccine, come in with the chicken pox. When we all got chicken pox (I did too), the virus was active in the community. It is not anymore, because of vaccination - well, that was before people stopped vaccinating their kids. I would venture a guess that all your relatives got chicken pox as small children. The disease in adolescents (non-immunocompromised), however, can be life-threatening. Preventing death is not the only goal of vaccination; reducing morbidity is the goal as well. It is because we don't see it anymore (fortunately) that people have become so laid back about varicella and other diseases.

[loveajax]

my husband got horrible shingles as an adult...omg, i have never seen anyone in such pain. fadzi, can you only get shingles if you have already had chicken pox?

ps: i am sorry that you saw children die. omg, i don't know how you did it. my cousin works in a ped onc ward and i know how unbelievably hard that job is.

[mumofone]

Everyone in our family has received the vaccines.

My DH works in health care, and he must get other shots as well. (Hep, Flu, etc.)

Yes, you can only get shingles if you have had the chicken pox. I had shingles a few years back, and I was extremely lucky as they were not painful at all...just itchy. I know of others who have suffered miserably with them. I was given the anti-virals. I was terrified that I would pass the chicken pox onto my children.

My BIL caught chicken pox as an adult, and he is so very lucky he wasn't hospitalized because he had them so bad.

[Sohmakun]

Originally Posted by sbaglio

Sohmakun,
Respectfully, I have seen several children here in the US die of varicella (chicken pox), in the hospital, in front of me. All were children who were on chemotherapy, and were exposed to the virus in the community.

With all respect, last time I checked majority of infants are not born with dangerous levels of cancer in the body so this doesn't situation doesn't apply to me. I also mentioned earlier that if my child had a medical problem then I would consider it but as of right now I don't see the point.

Originally Posted by sbaglio

The disease in adolescents (non-immunocompromised), however, can be life-threatening. Preventing death is not the only goal of vaccination; reducing morbidity is the goal as well.

On average about 100-150 American die from chicken pox each year and 10,000 require hospitalization. That's a relatively small number compared to 300 million people who live here. Not to mention the chicken pox shot is only 95% effective. Therefore, if my logic is right, my child has a 5% chance of getting chicken pox even if I take the vaccine verses a less than 1% chance of dying from it if I don't take it.

If you ask me this statistic alone tells me I don't need it.

[sbaglio]

Originally Posted by loveajax

my husband got horrible shingles as an adult...omg, i have never seen anyone in such pain. fadzi, can you only get shingles if you have already had chicken pox?

You never, ever, get used to seeing a child die. Never. I have too many heartbreaking stories, so I'll just stop there...

Yes, shingles represents reactivation disease. The full name of the virus is varicella-zoster (VZ). Primary infection causes varicella/chicken pox. An immunocompetent person's defenses control the infection after a time, and the virus remains latent in the nerve ganglia (or nerve roots, as it were). When the body's defenses decrease again, such as in older individuals, the virus can reactivate, causing zoster/shingles. My mum had shingles last year, so I know what you mean about the pain.

In immunocompromised people (e.g. those getting chemotherapy, on immunosuppressive drugs, the very malnourished, those with AIDS etc), zoster can become disseminated (spread) throughout the body, rather than remaining in certain areas of the skin.

It's a very scary disease, especially when teens and adults get it for the first time, or when immunocompromised people develop the disease.

[KarynB]

Originally Posted by sbaglio

You never, ever, get used to seeing a child die. Never. I have too many heartbreaking stories, so I'll just stop there...

Yes, shingles represents reactivation disease. The full name of the virus is varicella-zoster (VZ). Primary infection causes varicella/chicken pox. An immunocompetent person's defenses control the infection after a time, and the virus remains latent in the nerve ganglia (or nerve roots, as it were). When the body's defenses decrease again, such as in older individuals, the virus can reactivate, causing zoster/shingles. My mum had shingles last year, so I know what you mean about the pain.

In immunocompromised people (e.g. those getting chemotherapy, on immunosuppressive drugs, the very malnourished, those with AIDS etc), zoster can become disseminated (spread) throughout the body, rather than remaining in certain areas of the skin.

.

Hi Fadzi,

So does this mean that HIV+ kids SHOULD get vaccinated, or should not? Sorry, I am just a little confused! It seems that if they do get chicken pox or zoster, it would be much worse for them, and they could even die from it as you mentioned above. But I know some parents of + kiddos who will not vaccinate due to the stress it puts on the body. Thoughts?

[aclee]

Originally Posted by sbaglio

You never, ever, get used to seeing a child die. Never. I have too many heartbreaking stories, so I'll just stop there...

Yes, shingles represents reactivation disease. The full name of the virus is varicella-zoster (VZ). Primary infection causes varicella/chicken pox. An immunocompetent person's defenses control the infection after a time, and the virus remains latent in the nerve ganglia (or nerve roots, as it were). When the body's defenses decrease again, such as in older individuals, the virus can reactivate, causing zoster/shingles. My mum had shingles last year, so I know what you mean about the pain.

In immunocompromised people (e.g. those getting chemotherapy, on immunosuppressive drugs, the very malnourished, those with AIDS etc), zoster can become disseminated (spread) throughout the body, rather than remaining in certain areas of the skin.

It's a very scary disease, especially when teens and adults get it for the first time, or when immunocompromised people develop the disease.

SUPER I love being immune suppressed!

What causes the reactivation or whatever? Is it re-exposure or stress or do they just not know....like everything else in my medical file

[sbaglio]

Karen, because measles can be so devastating, the current recommendation is that HIV positive kids should be vaccinated. Note, kids with AIDS (i.e. severely immunocompromised kids) should not get this live, attenuated vaccine, but those who are infected but deemed to have mild disease (adequate CD4 count, low viral load etc) should be vaccinated with MMR.

The recommendations on VZ vaccine are less clear, but most pediatric HIV practitioners I know follow the same recommendations and criteria as for MMR.

aclee, there are so many factors that can cause reactivation, but you're right - stress is a major one. I can't say to what extent. It's also "stress" in the sense of "stress to the body", as in an infection such as the flu or mono, for example, when one's defenses would be down. Not saying that when one is older, has had chicken pox, and gets the flu, one would automatically reactivate and develop zoster, but that is one type of scenario. There are other factors as well, but we don't know all of them.

Reexposure in an immunocompetent individual should not result in chicken pox again (remember how it was always okay to play with a sibling who had chicken pox if you'd had it already?). Reexposure in an immunocompetent individual can.

[Stormster]

I had the worst worst worst case of Chicken Pox in fourth grade. They were in my ears, mouth, privates EVERYWHERE. I went back to school with the scabs and I can remember how each scab came off. I also have the scars on my face to prove it! 7 of them, still visible.

E is sooooo getting that shot.

The ONLY thing that really resonates with me is the clustering of the shots. How can a doctor know if each and every child's body can and will handle so much at once?

[Wisdom]

Originally Posted by Stormster

The ONLY thing that really resonates with me is the clustering of the shots. How can a doctor know if each and every child's body can and will handle so much at once?

Someone asked earlier the reason for spreading out the vaccines and, Stormster, your response provides part of the answer. There are so many vaccines kids need to have these days that the body probably handles them better being spread out. And since no one knows the cause of autism, some thinking it could be the enormous number of vaccines kids have to have, spreading them out may help in providing a lesser amount at a time.

[moonbeam23]

Originally Posted by startedover

My pediatrican is a close friend and she absolutely does not believe that the vaccines are part of the equation. I don't even remember why she feels so strong because I trust her. I believe one thing was something like, Population increased x percent in the last decade and autism increased x percent. Also what about adhd? Children that went to school with me, I have no doubt, had this , but were not diagnosed because they didn't have an answer then. Modern medicine is growing, population is growing, and so on. I vac all my kids because I do not want them in danger of a preventable illness, but also They have elderly family and friends that have compromised immunities and I would not want to put them in danger. I however do not do the flu vac, because we went years without getting the flu but I am considering doing it now.

What is Makin Bakin?

I believe there is an increase in autism, but not to the extent that it seems. I agree there is a tendency to overdiagnose, as in the 90's with adhd, and now, every child that's a little different is considered as somewhere on the autism spectrum. There is a variance in social skills with children that is normal. Now they're saying all these geniuses such as Mozart and Einstein and Bill Gates are on the autistic spectrum or have Asperbers (which is on the autistic spectrum) When I went to school, we called them geeks, or kids with more advanced vocabularies, different interests, and poorer social skills than most kids. I say this because my son is highly gifted, different and quirky, and teachers have suggested he may have Aspergers. I think that if they label all these kids that are the kids of techies (like in the SIlicon Valley) as Autistic just because they are different - it may account for a big part of the explosion in autism diagnoses. People are throwing around the word like crazy in the educational field.