[jules17]

Totally respect Gavin as well! He's my "go to" resource about safety.

[jules17]

I don't know if I got off course or not...I know I went on a tangent, but it makes me angry to have men discounted. That is good, honest, loving, caring fathers. That are okay with crying and every other gender bending stereotype.

That said, I asked my husband who he would want our kids to go to if ever lost. And he said, "Well, ultimately, someone safe. But if I had to choose between a man and a woman, I would choose a woman. Because I know they are less likely to be a sexual offender and my primary concern, over my gender identity, is keeping my kids safe."

He said he is no way diminishing men - just his gut reaction.

[jalapeno]

Here's a link to Gavin DeBecker's answer to this issue:

https://www.gavindebecker.com/familyQA/36.cfm
___

And since this thread seems to be touching on two distint topics . . . I'm really surprised at the lack of respect I've personally seen given to fathers. One example - my youngest was in the hospital for a few days and I stayed there with him. One of the "nurses" and I got to talking briefly about my other kids and she asked who was taking care of them. I told her DH. She then asked me who was helping him. Huh? I kind of shook my head in confusion and said nobody. She seriously looked at me like I was from another planet. She asked if I thought he was ok on his own with them. Huh???? I think I just stared back at her with my confused look. I mean she really was an actual nurse. She had to have had some sort of formal education. Surely she's met competent men in her life??? It was so bizarre. And I was so unprepared for it (stressed and tired and all that).

[melissa_bear003]

The idea that all women are safe, and all men are potential predators is exactly why teams like Paul Bernardo and Karla Homolka worked so well to abduct, torture and kill teen girls.

Experts can say what they like...and I'm not saying they're wrong exactly, I understand the reasoning...but that it breaks my heart that my husband would be viewed as less safe, simply for having a penis. Not only that, but statistics will ALSO show that sexual predators tend to spend time with their future victims, grooming them, etc. We all jump at the spectre in the shadow, when the reality of it is, stranger abduction/abuse is the low risk. Its people known to the child that present the biggest harm/risk factor.

It is a form of discrimination, just as saying a woman couldn't be a mechanic, police officer, soldier, what have you. We, as a society, have firmly debunked that myth...now its time for the idea that Dads are a lesser parent than Moms to go the way of the dodo too.

And the idea that ANY man would simply direct a child to a manager blows my mind. Not any man I've ever, EVER known. Makes me wonder. I have three brothers, cousins, BIL, husband, Dad, Uncles, friends...and not a single one of them would direct a lost child to a manager or walk away. Makes me wonder who conducted these studies, under what circumstances.

[KatiesEd-dad]

Originally Posted by jalapeno

And since this thread seems to be touching on two distint topics . . . I'm really surprised at the lack of respect I've personally seen given to fathers. One example - my youngest was in the hospital for a few days and I stayed there with him. One of the "nurses" and I got to talking briefly about my other kids and she asked who was taking care of them. I told her DH. She then asked me who was helping him. Huh? I kind of shook my head in confusion and said nobody. She seriously looked at me like I was from another planet. She asked if I thought he was ok on his own with them. Huh???? I think I just stared back at her with my confused look. I mean she really was an actual nurse. She had to have had some sort of formal education. Surely she's met competent men in her life??? It was so bizarre. And I was so unprepared for it (stressed and tired and all that).

I could go on for hours about all the snarky, stupid comments that have been directed toward me while being Katie's Ed-dad. I've kind of learned to take it in stride but it does kind of tick me off at times. Just recently, when I took Katie on our first Ed-dad/Katie trip to Chicago, my DW was inundated with comments like "how could you let your husband take your daughter on a trip?" and "do you really trust your husband to take your daughter on a trip for 3 days?" and "I would never let my husband go anywhere with my kids". How sad really. While I do believe the penis crowd is a minority in child raising, there are quite a few of us out there that are very comfortable raising our children, taking them on trips and being a parent. Not to diminish "Momma's" role but we are very capable of being nurturing. I also think that Dad's that don't take an active role in raising their kids are really missing out on something special.

As I'm fond of saying...It takes a village to raise a child but just remember that there's always a village idiot!

[Stormster]

Well to each his own. I just know that I don't want to worry about being PC if GOD FORBID Ethan goes missing. I'm doing what Gavin De Becker suggests. I actually wrote to him once after 9/11 when I had severe PTSD and he personally helped me. This guy is brilliant.

I can't even think about it!!!!!!!

[lovemy2boys]

Originally Posted by KatiesEd-dad

I could go on for hours about all the snarky, stupid comments that have been directed toward me while being Katie's Ed-dad. I've kind of learned to take it in stride but it does kind of tick me off at times. Just recently, when I took Katie on our first Ed-dad/Katie trip to Chicago, my DW was inundated with comments like "how could you let your husband take your daughter on a trip?" and "do you really trust your husband to take your daughter on a trip for 3 days?" and "I would never let my husband go anywhere with my kids". How sad really. While I do believe the penis crowd is a minority in child raising, there are quite a few of us out there that are very comfortable raising our children, taking them on trips and being a parent. Not to diminish "Momma's" role but we are very capable of being nurturing. I also think that Dad's that don't take an active role in raising their kids are really missing out on something special.

As I'm fond of saying...It takes a village to raise a child but just remember that there's always a village idiot!

My DH is the same, Ed...He works nights, so is home with the us during the day, and is pretty much an equal parent (well, except for homework duty...somehow I fully inherited this...).

Anyway, I remember when JD was 6 months old...in the midst of the most awful colic/reflux/miserable time...and I was at my breaking point. I was up day and night for 6 months and said "I've got to get out of here".

He said "Go". So I packed up my 2 1/2 year old, and spent the weekend at a hotel.

Friends thought I was CRAZY to leave a 6 month old crying baby with DH for a weekend...they never even let their hubbys drive their kids in a car!!!! (True story)

I just said "Hey - if I can't "trust" him to take care of JD, then why in the world would I have had kids with him?

[binkybear]

Originally Posted by Stormster

Well to each his own. I just know that I don't want to worry about being PC if GOD FORBID Ethan goes missing. I'm doing what Gavin De Becker suggests. I actually wrote to him once after 9/11 when I had severe PTSD and he personally helped me. This guy is brilliant.

I can't even think about it!!!!!!!

I'm with you Storm. I know my BILs, my hub, my dad and uncles would be awesome, but I've seen the faces of the predators in my area on that M.L. List and I've seen them in my local food store...yup.

Wanna know what prompted us to look at this list every couple of months? True story here. We had to have work done in our house. The adjuster recommends a contractor they use all the time (the contractor we would normally use was busy with another client). We take the reference and this man is in my house with me alone for days. This is the same time the Megan Law List starts circulating in emails, goes live. Well...the contractor that was in my house, with me alone is on the list!!
My husband FREAKED OUT. (Now could the guy have gotten a bum deal...sure, but would you care if you were in your home with this stranger??! OR if your child went to him for help?!)
Hub would even tell a child to find a "mommy or daddy with kids" FIRST and then a woman. It's not about the PC warm n fuzzies here...it's about what's easy for a child to remember and follow through with, in line with plain old facts.
Again, can women do harm, sure...but statistically, historically and factually (no mater how great "our" individual male role models are) men are more likely to either not assist to the fullest or to harm. The idea of this being discrimination...well, not to be snarky here but make a sign and hold a protest I guess. I mean is it REALLY that big of a deal to tell your kids to find a "mommy or daddy" and if there are none a "woman first" ???? Really, it's just supposed to be simple for the kid's sake, not a Political statement
It use to be "a policeman"...you think the postal workers, firemen and uniformed milkmen of the day were put off by this? I mean, come on...it's just a simple and easy way to help a kid out.

[lovemy2boys]

Binky,

We have a sex offender down the street from our house. He's served 13 years in prison. He walked past our home every day on his way to the store. He USED to stop and watch the neighborhood kids playing in front of our house until my DH had a conversation with him.

So yeah...My DH is a good guy...Ed is a good guy...There are a million good guys. But there are also a percentage of not so good guys in our area who LOOK like good guys (such as the man hanging out with kids in front of the local skating arena who was trying to lure kids to his car).

And for that reason we tell our kids if they get lost, go up to a mom or a Grandma with kids.

PC? Maybe not...but this is one thing I can't take a chance with.

[melissa_bear003]

Originally Posted by KatiesEd-dad

I could go on for hours about all the snarky, stupid comments that have been directed toward me while being Katie's Ed-dad. I've kind of learned to take it in stride but it does kind of tick me off at times. Just recently, when I took Katie on our first Ed-dad/Katie trip to Chicago, my DW was inundated with comments like "how could you let your husband take your daughter on a trip?" and "do you really trust your husband to take your daughter on a trip for 3 days?" and "I would never let my husband go anywhere with my kids". How sad really. While I do believe the penis crowd is a minority in child raising, there are quite a few of us out there that are very comfortable raising our children, taking them on trips and being a parent. Not to diminish "Momma's" role but we are very capable of being nurturing. I also think that Dad's that don't take an active role in raising their kids are really missing out on something special.

As I'm fond of saying...It takes a village to raise a child but just remember that there's always a village idiot!

I never understand how a Dad being a Dad could diminish Momma's role...but I've seen that attitude play out before.

As I said previously, I can understand where the expert's opinion comes from. I can. I'd still like to know more about the study conducted that says men are less likely to assist a child though.

I just think that its a sad comment on our society that men are viewed as a potential threat to a lost child. Seriously, if they did a study and discovered that the majority of sex offenders were Asian, CC, AA...would you tell your child not to approach ppl of that race? No, because that would be racist. But its ok to assume that all men are potential predators.

I tell my kids to find another parent. Its not that I don't give them safety training...its just that finding a parent makes sense, and I'm not going to teach my son, or my dds that men are dangerous, or women 'safe'. Its Stranger Danger teaching I do with them...because women have kidnapped children too.

I just get extremely frustrated when we experience Diva being turned down for playdates because I'm not home, but dh is. Or seeing my dh being viewed with suspicion because he's playing with the kids. "Why does he spend so much time with them?" Yeah, I'm not kidding.

[Stormster]

Melissa it's such a tough thing!

Once when my sister in law's family came from England we all took a trip to the Jersey Shore. It was a remote, safe and beautiful beach community. You didn't put shoes on the entire vacation sort of thing.

My then 17 year old Nephew, a senior in highschool and literally the most decent young man you can imagine, invited my then 12 year old nephew along on a walk. The 12 year old is my sister in law's son.

The 12 year old really looked up to the 17 year old. They even have the same name. As the sun began to set their father was pacing the house looking out the window. He was so nervous and upset it was palpable. I still get angry when I wonder what he might have been thinking. I got the distinct impression he was worried my 17 year old nephew might have been up to no good with his son!

The sad thing was, this was a once in a lifetime vacation for them It was so safe, my nephew such a good kid. But it turned into the most unsavory disgusting stressed out situation.

So men do it too. I really doubt if it was a neice taking the 12 year old for the walk it would have been the same.

I agree it's sickening. And I would never teach my young son not to trust men since HE is going to be one! I'd just kind of make it a matter of fact thing....find a mommy sort of thing.

[melissa_bear003]

Oh, I agree! Men are just as, if not MORE likely to suspect other men of being a threat. Absolutely.

That's what I'm saying...that as a society, we've taught and been taught, that man = threat. And if you substituted any other description for 'man', it would be considered horrid and disgusting. It wasn't that long ago that people believed that anyone not CC were a threat, not to be trusted, etc. We've realized that for the lie it was...So hopefully, we will come to a point where not all men are viewed as suspect, or all women as 'safe'.

The 'go to a woman' answer set me off on this tangent, but as I said, I can understand the idea behind it. I still think 'go to a Mommy or Daddy' would be a better answer though

[melissa_bear003]

Was just talking to my dh about this, and the study where guys don't get as involved with the kid whose lost.

He said that HE always has it in the back of his mind when talking to a child that is unattended and looks like they need some help (at the park, its pretty common here) that someone might accuse him of trying to lure or harm the child.

So I wonder if the 'guys don't help' is a direct result of men = danger. Men not helping, because they're scared of being accused of harming the child.

[Stormster]

Originally Posted by melissa_bear003

Was just talking to my dh about this, and the study where guys don't get as involved with the kid whose lost.

He said that HE always has it in the back of his mind when talking to a child that is unattended and looks like they need some help (at the park, its pretty common here) that someone might accuse him of trying to lure or harm the child.

So I wonder if the 'guys don't help' is a direct result of men = danger. Men not helping, because they're scared of being accused of harming the child.

See my first post on this thread! I think this is very true!

[MamaS]

When I was first hired as an elementary (K-5th) counselor, there were 20 women and 1 man in that position in our schools. The women were given private offices. We saw children. We hugged children who were crying. We gave out pieces of candy. We comforted.
The male counselor was given a desk in the corner of the main office, with no walls, in full view of the secretaries. He was instructed NOT to touch a child -- not to pat them, hug them, pick them up if they fell down, nothing. He was also not to give them a piece of candy. The candy bowl was on the secretary's desk and he could send the child to the secretary for a treat.
After three years of this, he was promoted to Assistant Principal. Which meant all the same prohibitions, but he had an office. He NEVER had a conversation with a child without leaving the door open and having a secretary in the outer office.