[loveajax]

storm, I take it your friend did SR because of health issues for herself or the twins....in other words, she did not do it just bc she did not ''want'' a son? just confused....(i always hoped for boy/girl twins myself!)

[my someone]

Originally Posted by sadiegirl

And how do you know HOW you'd parent either before you've done it?

For example, I am "guilty" of saying that I could not be a special needs parent. I don't feel like I've got it in me. But you know what? I don't know for sure. Maybe I'd be a darn good one if life turned out that way.

BRILLIANT observation, sadiegirl! You've hit the nail on the head! We all make assumptions about ourselves that sometimes, when tested, turn out not to be true at all. You just never know what you will be handed, and how you will handle it.

For example, in my case I thought I wanted a daughter for my second, simply because I adored my first son so completely. I thought a second boy would suffer by comparison. Guess what: we got another boy and there is no comparing them because they are as different as day and night!

Things happen for a reason. I've got two brothers who don't speak to each other and two sons who adore each other. I assumed I wanted a girl, but the boy I got turned out to be the sweetest thing in the world. Thank goodness I didn't insist on what I thought I wanted.

[Vogi2002]

I never thought I would be gender specific, but we probably will for our third (and probably final) adoption. We have two boys so I would love a little girl. Of course, we still haven't decided on it & I would love a little boy also if that is the way it worked out.

Will they be different to parent? Nope, I just want a little girl to experience dolls, and dressing them frilly, etc. May mean she'll hate dolls, that's okay, I'm not EXPECTING her to do it, I'm not going to be sad if she doesn't.

I just think it's an upside with adoption if you so choose it, it's not an exact science either, and you must be willing to wait much longer, but if you are willing...

But I must admit people who are gender specific on thier first child baffle me, not sure why it would matter, but to each thier own I guess. I guess anyone who is confused and wasn't completely open to every situation (such as race) then just think of the reasons you didnt do it, and it probably applies to people who are gender specific. A black child is not going to be harder to parent than a hispanic child for example....

I think there are a lot of stereotypes played into preferences...it's just a fact really, and in one form or another we all had some.

[sadiegirl]

Originally Posted by my someone

Things happen for a reason. Thank goodness I didn't insist on what I thought I wanted.

Exactly.

Look I am far from religious but I do hear a lot on these boards about you "get the child you are meant to have", so maybe the child you are meant for is NOT the gender you want. (That was certainly my case! Interesting sidenote: if DS had come out a girl, his bmom would have kept her. So I feel like I really was meant to have a boy, kwim?)

You know, I feel, just let God/life/fate decide for you. It's going to anyway! LOL

[sadiegirl]

Originally Posted by my someone

We all make assumptions about ourselves that sometimes, when tested, turn out not to be true at all. You just never know what you will be handed, and how you will handle it.

Again, exactly my point.

I've read here that one thinks they'd be a better parent to a girl (or boy). See, to me, it seems that the posters here ARE good parents. And I'm betting they'd be a good parent either way so I just don't understand the choice.

[lovemy2boys]

Originally Posted by sadiegirl

(That was certainly my case! Interesting sidenote: if DS had come out a girl, his bmom would have kept her. So I feel like I really was meant to have a boy, kwim?)

Ya know, AJ's firstmom said the same thing...that she doesn't think she could have placed him had he been a girl...I never understood this...

[MkMw]

With our first adoption - we had absolutely no preference, and were blessed with our adorable, active exhausting twin sons.....

With our second adoption we when possible, added a girl preference. We agreed to match with someone who didn't know gender if it "felt right" and knew that ultrasounds are wrong and that even being matched with an EM expecting a girl was no guarantee, and if that had happened - then we'd be raising 3 sons.

As it turned out, we got the call for DD the day after she was born.

There is a difference to me between wanting only a girl/boy or having a preference. MOST people would like the opportunity to raise a boy and a girl. And that was our reason. We know not everyone gets that. Our homestudy was 3 months from expiring when DD was born, we weren't going to renew, and were (then) content with just rasing boys.

[Stormster]

Re: the reduction based on sex question.

She is a single mom who did IVF with a sperm donor. The implanted her with 5 healthy embryos. She did not think she could emotionally or financially handle twins.

It was a very high end fertility clinic which I believe cares more about numbers than ethics. They had zero problem doing the reduction, it was like "part of it"

My friend had HORRIBLE post partum depression and was almost hospitalized. I don't think she has really faced this aspect of things as she barely made it through the premature birth (which was very scary) and then the PPD which was the worst I've ever seen.

I have noticed she's not overly warm to E, I don't know if that has something to do with it.

I was personally perplexed, infuriated, hurt and freaked out when she did it. I actually have no words for how it made me feel. I think the doctors should have their licenses revoked for putting that many embroyos in a woman who had no intention of carrying multiples.

[loveajax]

storm, yeah....i try not to judge but that reeeeeeally bums me out. and I know firsthand how unethical some fertility docs can be....i don't blame you for being disturbed.

[sbaglio]

Originally Posted by Stormster

Re: the reduction based on sex question.

She is a single mom who did IVF with a sperm donor. The implanted her with 5 healthy embryos. She did not think she could emotionally or financially handle twins.

It was a very high end fertility clinic which I believe cares more about numbers than ethics. They had zero problem doing the reduction, it was like "part of it"

My friend had HORRIBLE post partum depression and was almost hospitalized. I don't think she has really faced this aspect of things as she barely made it through the premature birth (which was very scary) and then the PPD which was the worst I've ever seen.

I have noticed she's not overly warm to E, I don't know if that has something to do with it.

I was personally perplexed, infuriated, hurt and freaked out when she did it. I actually have no words for how it made me feel. I think the doctors should have their licenses revoked for putting that many embroyos in a woman who had no intention of carrying multiples.

Storm, just a quick comment on why so many embryos are inserted for implantation...

I tried to find information on implantation rates in assisted reproduction, and they vary based on the method used. I'm not a fertility expert by any measure, but from what I recall and have read, the reason for implanting many embryos is because of the high rate of implantation failure.

Embryo implantation rates in natural and stimulate...[Reprod Biomed Online. 2008] - PubMed Result

This is just an abstract, but it gives an indication of the rates with stimulated reproduction treatment. I think they are trying to give the best chance possible for implantation.

Abstracts: Factors affecting embryo implantation after human in vitro fertilization: a hypothesis. In vitro fertilization in unstimulated cycles: a clinical trial using hCG for timing of follicle aspiration

Again, this is not the full study, but there was an implantation rate of 35% for embryos created with donor eggs, and clinical pregnancy rate of 67% (they don't give the numbers of those who carried to term).

I think that the stories we hear of women who have multiples after IVF and the like, are in the minority. Most women do not experience implantation, let alone pregnancy, and for those who do, it is usually a singleton. The chances of failure are just too low if they try to place only one embryo.

As for reduction based on sex - THAT is something I find reprehensible.

[Fran27]

Yes, but usually if they're healthy embryos an ethical doctor will only put two... They put four in when I did my IVF but they were not of good quality...

[Fe2002]

Originally Posted by Stormster

Re: the reduction based on sex question.

She is a single mom who did IVF with a sperm donor. The implanted her with 5 healthy embryos. She did not think she could emotionally or financially handle twins.

It was a very high end fertility clinic which I believe cares more about numbers than ethics. They had zero problem doing the reduction, it was like "part of it"

My friend had HORRIBLE post partum depression and was almost hospitalized. I don't think she has really faced this aspect of things as she barely made it through the premature birth (which was very scary) and then the PPD which was the worst I've ever seen.

I have noticed she's not overly warm to E, I don't know if that has something to do with it.

I was personally perplexed, infuriated, hurt and freaked out when she did it. I actually have no words for how it made me feel. I think the doctors should have their licenses revoked for putting that many embroyos in a woman who had no intention of carrying multiples.

Storm, it sounds like this person went through a REALLY rough time... does she know how you feel about this? I can't imagine she divulged this highly sensitive information to you unless she felt you were a very close friend. I can't imagine that she didn't struggle with the decision and is probably judging herself far more harshly than those on this board.

[Stormster]

Yes Fe she's been through a lot and no I don't discuss it with her.

[Larue]

Granted international adoption is very different from domestic adoption, which is the perspective of most of the posters on this thread. We did request a girl for our first adoption, and now we're requesting a boy for our second adoption. Personally I think girls are requested more than boys because in many cases women are driving the adoption process, and they’re more likely to request a girl. I know that’s a “generalization”. But I think it’s mostly true. Also sadly, I think the “carrying on the family name” issue is a factor. Especially in transracial adoption.

Neither of these issues were the case for us. We had our own personal reasons for wanting a daughter before a son. What I find interesting is not the curiosity of some posters, but the judgment of others and the pretense that adoption should be the same as giving birth. Why?! I have never given birth, though I have been pregnant several times and had miscarriages. I can say from my own experience, that being pregnant and going through the adoption process are very different. For those who think that adoptive families should not be able to specify gender, should they also not be able to specify medical needs, legal risk, or race?! Just curious…

p.s. Our children come to us with a history. In our daughter's case, a beautiful Mayan history. Why should we pretend she joined us through birth?!

[KarynB]

[quote=Larue]

For those who think that adoptive families should not be able to specify gender, should they also not be able to specify medical needs, legal risk, or race?! Just curious…

QUOTE]


I am on the fence about being able to specify gender to be honest - not in terms of judging people who do for their various reasons - but more in terms of what that says as a society of what/who we value. As it has been said many times on this forum - black males are at the bottom of the barrel in terms of value/worth. If I don't challenge this idea - what does that say for my sons? That I accept the status quo? If I say I accept it, then I am also saying it is in some way "right".

It is funny we feel free to judge other societies that place a value on sex/skin colour (lighter skin vs. darker skin) - IE: China and the abundance of girls - but don't look at our own societies values and see we do the same thing.

I think there is a HUGE difference in specfying gender and specifying special needs, race etc. Gender difference do not require additional resources, therapy (SN), moving to diverse areas (race) or ongoing contact with a new culture etc. Unless your circumstance is as ocracoke stated - the kids are sharing a bedroom so it needs to be another girl/boy. Although, my son and daughter shared a bedroom for 2 years (ages 5 (boy) and 10(girl), but of course it was not long term and would not work now that they are older.

So for me, this issue is as multi-facted as the issue of people who aren't open to other races - some have excellent reasons for not wanting to adopt transracially, while for some it IS based in racism. Gender, same thing. Some have excellent reasons for specifying gender, while for some it is based on unrealistic stereotypes that have the effect of valuing one sex the other. Of course - who gets to be the judge of good reason vs bad is anyones guess!!!