[MsTee72]

I have a teen who just turned 15. I have had a problem in the past with her lying and she still continues to lie sometime. She is diagnosed with ADHD, has a short attention span, and she has a learning disability. I adopted her when she was 11.

The most recent lie was when I smelled perfume and asked both my daughters did they have on perfume, they both said no. I said somebody has perfume on because I smell it. They didn't admit to it, so I told them that I was going to smell them & if one of them was telling me a lie they would be in trouble. A short while later, the 15 year old said that it was her. I said so you decided to tell the truth, I asked her why did she lie. She said because she forgot. She says her friend (in high school) was spraying perfume and she walked into it after she had sprayed it, but she didn't know that she had sprayed it until she walked into it. She said it got on her shirt.

Later on when she took off her shirt and put another on I still smelled it. So I said if the girl had sprayed perfume in the air and it got on your shirt I wouldn't still smell it on you after you have changed the shirt. She still didn't admit to any lying.

The next morning my younger daughter (9) told me that she saw the perfume in the 15 yr. old's bag and that the 15 year old told her that her friend let her borrow the perfume but she had to give it back to her the next day. I have not had a chance to talk with her about this yet, but will this evening. I have decided that since she is going to lie I will just check her book bag every evening when she comes home. She had previously came home with a cell phone, and made up a lie about that. At first she said it was a friend's and she let her keep it. Then she said she found it. Since she couldn't tell the truth I just kept the cell phone and never gave it back to her.

Could anyone give me advice on the proper punishment for a teen of her age that continues to lie? It seems that it is a habit and hard to break.

[Whirled_Peas]

Lying is unacceptable. However, I think the big picture needs to be looked at.

I don't understand why it was a big issue that someone was wearing perfume. If this is the type of environment these kids are living in, I can see why they have developed the habit of lying.

This video is great. It's expensive, but worth every penny in what you and your kids will get from it. (It's for you to watch, not them.) Amazon.com: Unconditional Parenting: Movies & TV

[mdesi]

Alright, you are really going to hate me for saying this, but please bear in mind that I have BTDT w/ my DSS. How big of a deal is it that she wear perfume? Most 15 y.o. girls want to wear it, and barring allergies, there are really bigger things to get worked up over.

I do realize that you are concerned about the lying, but that is NOT a characteristic of ADHD. Also, you kind of backed her into a corner to lie. In her world, this is no big deal to wear perfume.

If it is a continual thing, or you are worried about the possibility of her stealing these items, that is a whole other ball game. Is she going to counseling? Can you go as a family? (I'm concerned about the younger one being an informant only b/c it sets up a scenario in which there can be resentment b/t the older and younger DD's.)

ETA: I should probably explain why the lying is not part of the ADHD diagnosis, especially in this scenario. ADHD is marked w/ impulsivity. The first lie - I am not wearing perfume - is an example of impulsiveness, The second lie - Hanging out w/ girls who were spraying perfume at the time - is calculated, not impulsive at all.

[Lorraine123]

When a child has a problem with lying, its best to not give them the opportunity. Don't ask "are you wearing perfume?" You already know the answer. Say "I see you chose to break the rules and wear perfume, you need to go take a shower and wash it off" or whatever.

I also think this is a bigger issue than just lying. Mdesi used the word "calculated" and that is so true. She needs therapy to get to the root of the issue. Is it that she feels a need to control her world and does it through lying. Or does she feel power when she manipulates others. It could be many things. But the lying will not stop until the root issue is resolved.

[Stormster]

I think if she's lying (to cover her own butt) then punishing her will create more scenarios for her to cover her own butt which will cause more lying.

The kind of punishment you are asking about does not teach children that they should be honest because it is the right thing to do. It teaches her to lie better so she doesnt' get caught.

I think you need to work on the root issue as well. The interrogation sounded scary and it's probably not fair to put the younger daughter in the middle.

We don't know you and only you know if you are being too strict or not. Lying is a very bad thing I think we all agree with that. Just trying to help change the behavior rather than make it worse.

I hope that didn't sound judgmental! Good luck!

[finallyamom0310]

Not sure if this will help or not. But when I went through the typical teenage hide and lie to my mom, I learned really quick to stop when she emphasized her loss of trust in me. My mothers trust meant the world so to lose that and the privileges that came with the trust just tore me apart. I always did what I could from that point on not to lose trust.

[OakShannon]

I'm curious about the history here. I notice you said that you adopted your daughter at age 11 and you have dealt with her lying to you before. It does seem like the perfume issue itself is not a big deal, and you want to be careful not to make it bigger than it is or to be so strict as to invite rebellion. But are you dealing with attachment issues with your daughter (where lying and manipulative behavior need to be addressed within the larger context of dealing with an attachment disorder)? I think that does make a difference in terms of how you deal with this type of infraction. Do you see it as part of a serious pattern or is it just one of those "kids lying to keep themselves out of trouble" things?

[kretzklan]

As a parent who is just beginning to deal with attachment (after a few years of pretending that wasn't the problem)....it sound a lot like there are attachment issues. She is feeling the need to be in control. I agree greatly with what someone already mentioned, you can't ask "why"...it's giving the child the opportunity to lie. If you address it head on, there isn't that option for her. I'm sure there is more to the story, but I was also wondering why she can't wear perfume at 15? Is it against school rules? Although with AD kids you must assert control with them - I still think there is such a thing as choosing your battles. I would be much more concerned if she were lying about being with boys or drinking...which at that age are big issues.
Good luck!

[MsTee72]

Thank you everyone for your advice. I may have been misunderstood. I just want to say that I do not have a problem with my daugther wearing perfume - that was not the issue. The issue was/is the lying. I did not feel she needed to lie about it.

[aMarylandfamily]

Think I posted this in with another question today on the handling of teens who lie - so cut and paste (now ignoring that lying was the issue not the perfume) and will post it for your review - maybe some part of it still helps???

"The hardest part of age pre-teen and teenagerhood is the defiance of rules and expectations while the most important part is consistency and security from the parents (even when the children are balking!). We have had several times over the years when we pull all the kids in our household at the time together and say - time for updates - some of the old rules aren't age right anymore and some aren't working and re-establish house rules and things they are expected to do - allowing them some input as there may be outside and even peer influences that you may not be aware they are dealing with. Set an established set of rules and an update meeting so they know there is room for changes if and as they are needed. These rules also have to include incentives for making the right choice so they do think. At age 12 alot of girls start with sleepovers and they will do make-up and hair experiments and lotions/perfumes and you may need to alter that rule to certain times being acceptable and reward them when honesty is presented (i.e. - Mom we were at Stacy's and she and I put eye make-up on ... remember this is only allowed at certain times and since you told me you get an extra hour of tv) - simple and sweet without monetary values if possible. Our ds, the last one at home, is definitely not an angel but he has also told us the truth and there are times when I want to cover my ears and say no I don't want to know and yet I do as then there is little room for deceiving the parents. It also opens the door for them to say - this is what is happening ... I'm not allowed right - open communication is so important."

[buttascotchbaby]

Originally Posted by Lorraine123

When a child has a problem with lying, its best to not give them the opportunity. Don't ask "are you wearing perfume?" You already know the answer. Say "I see you chose to break the rules and wear perfume, you need to go take a shower and wash it off" or whatever.

I have to second this. I have a 7 y.o. and lying has been an issue with her since she has been with us (just after turning 4) and this is a huge thing that I have a very difficult time remembering in the heat of the moment Giving them the opportunity to tell a lie often leads to a bigger incident. In my case I can rant and rave and ask her over and over and "I am giving you one last chance to tell me the truth"! LOL for a half an hour or more. It drives me crazy, it escalates the situation and the behavior. My dad will then walk in (after I have stomped off in frustration , leaving her in her room as punishment ) and say "So, when did you write on the wall?", and she will come clean immediately! Grrrr!

It is a really simple, small thing, but it can really help with the lying. I feel for you and I think that there may be something in what many of the PP's have said regarding attachment issues maybe being at play here. Another issue I have with my DD is trying to find a punishment/consequence that will actually effect her. Because of her history with her biomom she has no attachment to anything; toys, jewelry, etc. So taking things away has virtually no effect on her. The one thing we have found that does effect her is social situations. So, confining her to her room for short periods of time, where she is isolated from the rest of the family and not letting her go on fun outings with friends and family has been something we have found to work. Good luck!

[mdesi]

Originally Posted by MsTee72

Thank you everyone for your advice. I may have been misunderstood. I just want to say that I do not have a problem with my daugther wearing perfume - that was not the issue. The issue was/is the lying. I did not feel she needed to lie about it.

I don't want to be snarky here, but a lot of people did address the issue of the lying. People gave suggestions of counseling, attachment disorder, not allowing her a chance to actually lie, etc. I think everyone on here agreed that the issue was the lying.

[binkybear]

Originally Posted by MsTee72

The most recent lie was when I smelled perfume and asked both my daughters did they have on perfume, they both said no. I said somebody has perfume on because I smell it. They didn't admit to it, so I told them that I was going to smell them & if one of them was telling me a lie they would be in trouble. A short while later, the 15 year old said that it was her. I said so you decided to tell the truth, I asked her why did she lie. She said because she forgot.

I agree with everyone else who's posted.

I'd also wonder how the initial question was presented, was it "parentally toned" (not abusive or anything...just that parental way we all can relate to) to begin with...meaning when you posed the "who is wearing perfume" question was there a tone or inclining that there would be "trouble" reagrdless or was it a friendly...mmm that smells good who's wearing perfume? I only ask becuase your teen may be thinking why bother telling the truth about something pretty trivial I'm you're going to get in trouble regardless. Sounds like your teen is hedging her bets and trying to not get in trouble either way.

Is it possible she did in fact forget? I'm not sure if squirting on perfume plays a pivital role in anyone's day. I forget about it after it's on!

Being a teen is so hard, just as hard as parenting one. Stick to your guns with lying, it's wrong..but we don't want to set our kids up for failure, esp in their own weaknesses. She may need counseling or help with the root causes of her lying, it might just be her defense mechanism, a savior from her past, or just bad learned behavior from her past. (??)

I agree with Whirled Peas video suggestion, it's a very good video.