[crick]

What all this does for me... I'm left wondering why Mccain picked her?? I mean...with all this stuff to deflect from your platform, why the heck would you pick her? (Whether or not you agree, disagree, believe etc.)

I have a hard time believing it's just because she's a woman in order to get the Hillary voters and to get the far right wing voters who think Mccain is too liberal.

I don't know...it's a very very odd choice to me.

[loveajax]

I agree, Crick. Although I saw on another forum, that McCain's campaign contributions have gone WAY up since he nominated her so maybe it was a fundraising thing more than a votegetting thing? (I wonder if McCain was having a hard time tapping into the fundamentalist Christian money base? Not sure).

[coachmur]

I agree 100 percent Crick

[sbaglio]

Originally Posted by 2Bulgarianbeauties

Because conservatives believe that a baby is human at the moment of conception. The child has done nothing wrong and deserves to live. War is done to protect a nation, or to free people oppressed. Is it all right to ignore the thousands of mass graves found in Iraq, or the tourcher (sp?) rooms? Or the future destruction that Iraq could inflict with WMD (And for all the doubters the UN agreed that WMD exist). In addition, the death penalty is supported by some (but not all) because these people have been given the chance at life, and inflicted such harm on society that they do not deserve to continue to live. Guns are supported because the bad guys always can get guns, the good guys should have a right to protect themselves. A criminal is less likely to attack someone when they have to be concerned that person can shoot back. If they know a person is defenseless, they are most likely to be attacked. Finally, conservatives believe that humans have dominion over animals, that they are not human, do not have souls, and are not equal to humans.

Hope that helps.

These are all Republican/FOX News talking-points.

Forget the fact that a woman has the right to choose what to do with her body, or that WMD were never found in Iraq, or that nobody has the right to say who "deserves to live" (least of all the government), or that crime went down in large cities because of better policing and not by allowing machine guns on the streets, or that if you ask any pet lover if their dog has a soul you might get an answer you don't agree with.

If we could just discuss things and not bring the religious element into it (upon which a lot of these opinions are based), I think that would make for a more sane debate.

[paigeturner]

Originally Posted by manni28

[color=black][size=3][font=Times New Roman][b]
Me too! I found the whole story very “odd”. She ( a high risk mom with a downs baby) flying eight hours from Dallas to Alaska and then driving thirty miles to a smaller hospital to have her “baby”. It doesn’t add up? Plus nobody ( even her staff) knew she was preggos? The daughter transfers from her school and then was “sick” with mono for three months ( they say she was showing by then)? Sorry it sounds like what they use to do “back in the days” when a teenager was preggos. I have seen photos of Palin when she was to suppose to be seven months ( she didn't look preggos) and I have seen photos of the daughter, and she LOOKED preggos.

If these photos are true, then who would want a VP who isn't honest?

Supamodel:



I agree with you.

OK. First lets not forget that it is September and school hasn't even started in Anchorage yet. I believe it starts tomorrow. Second, if her daughter is 5 months along, that means that during last school year she would have been barely pregnant. Third, I for one, Manni, barely showed with all three of my pregnancies clear up until delivery or didn't look "preggo" as you so delicately put it.

17 year old women get pregnant every day. We don't know how long her family has known about her pregnancy. But, the Palin family has acknowledged that while this isn't what they would have chosen for their daughter, they are now looking forward to becoming grandparents. Sounds like something I would have said if one of my daughters had become pregnant at 17.

Governor Palin is a very popular governor. I look forward to learning more about her politics and her policies as this election moves forward. I probably won't cast a vote for the McCain/Palin ticket in November but having said that, I will watch every debate, I will do my homework on past records of all the candidates and I will be fully educated before I send in my ballot.

[aclee]

Originally Posted by sbaglio

ask any pet lover if their dog has a soul you might get an answer you don't agree with.

My dogs have a soul, and after this weekend, they have some work to do if they want to go to heaven...they polished off their 3rd pair of LL Bean FIFTY DOLLAR slippers...so ticked. I know they are fluffy and covered in fur, and smell like rabbit, but SHEESH! $150 in slippers...gone. They are going straight, you know where...AND...AND....they ate one of Ty's ducky slippers that he wears after his bath. I can have cold feet, so can DH, but Tyler...no...they are going to the down below place...

[loveajax]

Actually, the first time I actually believed that there may be a "heaven" was when my beloved Ajax died and I somehow has this peaceful sense I would see him again (corny, I know!).

Paige, I get what you are saying, but why did it have to become such a big story? Why not just say, I have five kids. My daughter is expecting a baby. We are happy to be grandparents. I mean somehow this thing was "botched" from the getgo. And I hate to say it, but the "family values" gang sometimes does things for political expediency (perhaps a marriage no one is ready for? I don' tknow, obviously). I'm actually honestly concerned for the governor's daughter and just hope that SHE is getting to call the shots here, not her mom.

[Kat-L]

Originally Posted by SupaModel

She's so far right it's sickening! Also she's NOT QUALIFIED!!!

Obama 08 - YES WE CAN!!!!!!

I can say the same thing about Obama being sooo far to the left (Liberal) that it's sickening. Palin is very pro-life. True. And Obama is so pro-choice that he voted that a baby who SURVIVES an abortion and is born alive should be left to die. AND, he's no more qualifed than Palin.

I haven't decided how I'm going to vote-but Obama is just as liberal as Palin is conservative.

[mdesi]

Honestly, if we are going to talk about botching a political PR job, Obama is just as guilty of that with the Reverand Wright issue. People have found it in their heart to forgive and forget about the way that was handled/mishandled. I think we can have the same compassion for the Palin family in a confusing time as we afforded the Obama family when their minister was out running his mouth.

[sbaglio]

Originally Posted by Kat-L

And Obama is so pro-choice that he voted that a baby who SURVIVES an abortion and is born alive should be left to die.

Okay, this is so incendiary as to require some sort of reference. If you could post one, I'd appreciate it.

Having NO idea where that nugget came from, I would say that when a fetus is delivered before about 22 weeks (preterm labor and delivery), survival is zero. Not 1%, or 5% - zero. There is nothing that we can possibly do medically to save that infant. Different centers try to push the envelope, but the youngest that ever survived at our institution was delivered at 23 weeks.

If this is what you're referring to, blaming Obama for such a fact of life is unfair. But again, I'll await some sort of reference/website to prove your point before making a judgment.

[paigeturner]

Originally Posted by loveajax

Paige, I get what you are saying, but why did it have to become such a big story? Why not just say, I have five kids. My daughter is expecting a baby. We are happy to be grandparents. I mean somehow this thing was "botched" from the getgo. And I hate to say it, but the "family values" gang sometimes does things for political expediency (perhaps a marriage no one is ready for? I don' tknow, obviously). I'm actually honestly concerned for the governor's daughter and just hope that SHE is getting to call the shots here, not her mom.

I get that! I hope no 17 year old girl is pushed into doing something they don't want to do regarding an unplanned pregnancy. I just won't make assumptions about the personal life of an elected official based on media stories.

As for the "pro-life/pro-choice" question...it's not a federal issue. BTW, on the "anti-gay" stance, I understand that Palin shot down a gay marriage bill shortly after taking office. On the flip side, she pushed through a measure giving partner benefits to state employees. I don't have the time to research this entirely, but the person who told me this said he'd dig it up.

If that turns out to be incorrect...if she shot down partner benefits well then, I would find that a negative factor in casting my vote.

[SupaModel]

Originally Posted by crick

What all this does for me... I'm left wondering why Mccain picked her?? I mean...with all this stuff to deflect from your platform, why the heck would you pick her? (Whether or not you agree, disagree, believe etc.)

I have a hard time believing it's just because she's a woman in order to get the Hillary voters and to get the far right wing voters who think Mccain is too liberal.

I don't know...it's a very very odd choice to me.

I don't know why he picked her BUT it says A LOT about him. Would I trust this man to run our country when he does something like this? It's obvious he picked her to get the Hilary vote but why not some other qualified woman? Honestly McCain is 72 and has already battled cancer. Something could go wrong and where left with her???

[Kat-L]

Originally Posted by sbaglio

Okay, this is so incendiary as to require some sort of reference. If you could post one, I'd appreciate it.

Having NO idea where that nugget came from, I would say that when a fetus is delivered before about 22 weeks (preterm labor and delivery), survival is zero. Not 1%, or 5% - zero. There is nothing that we can possibly do medically to save that infant. Different centers try to push the envelope, but the youngest that ever survived at our institution was delivered at 23 weeks.

If this is what you're referring to, blaming Obama for such a fact of life is unfair. But again, I'll await some sort of reference/website to prove your point before making a judgment.

SB1661eng 92nd General Assembly
In 2002, as an Illinois legislator, Obama voted against the Induced Infant Liability Act, which would have protected babies that survived late-term abortions. That same year a similar federal law, the Born Alive Infant Protection Act, was signed by President Bush.

Both the Illinois and the federal bill sought equal treatment for babies who survived premature inducement for the purpose of abortion and were then not given life saving medical care and wanted babies who were born just as early (prematurely) and were given live-saving medical attention.

When two babies are born at say, 24 weeks, a doctor should be required to provide the same medical care for both-regardless of the circumstances of the child's delivery. A baby born alive is a human being with the same right to life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness that the rest of us enjoy. It's not an abortion issue. We're talking about babies born ALIVE. And if one baby's life is worth fighting for when he was born at 22 weeks, why should the next baby born at 22 weeks be denied medical care?

Anyway, Obama voted against the Illinois act. Obama's position was the baby who survived the abortion should be allowed to die . By providing life saving medical care, " we are doing here is to create one more burden on a woman and I can’t support that.”

In this country a woman has a RIGHT to an abortion. She does not have a right to make sure her baby dies from lack of medical care after he/she is born. Once the baby is born alive, he/she has the same right to life as any other baby born.

And that is why I said Obama is JUST as pro-choice as Palin is pro-life. BOTH are so far on the opposite sides of the situation that there can be no bridge between them. Obama is as liberal as Palin is conservative. If being too conservative is sickening, I just wanted to point out that being SO liberal that you'll deny a human being born alive medical attention is JUST as sickening.

Again, I haven't decided how I'm going to vote. I don't think Barack Obama has the experience necessary-but I don't want 4 years of McCain, either. I wish it was Clinton who was running. It would be easier for me to pick a candidate. As it is, I'm trying to figure out which candidate would be best for our country-and I don't ever remember disliking two candidates as much as I dislike Obama and McCain.

[SupaModel]

Originally Posted by paigeturner

BTW, on the "anti-gay" stance, I understand that Palin shot down a gay marriage bill shortly after taking office. On the flip side, she pushed through a measure giving partner benefits to state employees. I don't have the time to research this entirely, but the person who told me this said he'd dig it up.

If that turns out to be incorrect...if she shot down partner benefits well then, I would find that a negative factor in casting my vote.

I believe she did push through the partner benefits.

Also for YEARS McCain voted against for AZ to have MLK a holiday. Why is that?

[sstuart]

Originally Posted by aclee

I'm not saying *I* feel this way, but MANY do...If she can't manage her own life(ie her daughter), how will she manage the country?

If there are people out there that think they can "manage" a 17 year old, then maybe they should be running for president. All I can hope for is to raise my children the best I can and hope that they make wise decisions. Even good kids make mistakes! I have yet to meet someone in my life who has never done wrong. We wonder why our politicians may not be the best choice. It is because your life is placed under a microscope and everyone you are related to or know are fair game.