[aclee]

There is a little talk on the boards about several who are or have adopted older children. We are working through foster care of our next adoption. I would like to consider an older/younger sibling group (one older than Ty, one younger...esp. if the younger one was male and the older female) but Dh would really like to adopt just one at a time, and is concerned about what the bonding would be like for a say 2 or 3 year old to us (same man that was concerned about bonding to an adopted child if we're all being honest) I think he also has a fear and a real protective instinct of Tyler (not that I don't, but his is amazing) where he doesn't want Ty to end up being the only child, or sort of shoved outta the way because other children need more care or attention. I think he's would be pretty content to sit on our duffs and just have Ty (actually he has made a lot of comments about wanting a big family too). He has a couple times said...well what to the girls on line (you guys...though I've told him there are guys here too) think/do etc. So here I am. Asking before he can ask. Can you all share with me the ins and outs of a toddler adoption. Linny, I know you aren't a fan, and I would love to hear you share more. Those that think it's great or not great, I'd like to hear it all.

Thanks!

[hockeywoman]

My 3 YO has bonded really well to us, but that is still forming (she still gets confused on visits with previous FM/FD). I think she's not typical though. She was an extremely laid back toddler even at the previous home
(who had her since 11 months). I would say she's even slightly ahead developmentally - which is suprising considering her first 11 months.

My situation is a little different - she is the youngest, and her older sibs baby her quite a bit. It may be different for the oldest/only.

My 4 YO is a holy terror toddler most of the time, but she has attachment issues and developmental delays that exacerbate the problems.

I would say go for it, but then again I am coming from a large family mentality and don't really have the mothering desire for an infant - I do much better with children I can talk to (though that presents its own problems )

[ocracoke]

My daughter was 21 months when we arrived home. And I would do it again in a heart beat. Actually next time I hope to go older. My daughter was a caged animal on day 1 and we spent abotu 1 hour together. On day 2 she ran away from me at first sight of me -- no joke -- but I forced her to spend the day with me anyway. On day 3 she went with me, unhappy at first, and spent the day. On day 4 she let me know that I was mom and I best start acting like it -- including not returning her to the orphanage at night. Each child and each family are different but personally I would take a toddler over an infant any day.

Samantha

[minibus]

We are still adjusting to ours ... we have a 21 month old daughter and a 5 month old son - sib set, who were placed with us about a month and a half ago. Our daughter has done fairly well - she seems to be bonding to us ok, though it has been frustrating for her at times because she's very opinionated and strong willed but not very verbal, which, because we haven't had her the whole time causes some communication difficulties.

I actually can deal a lot better with her and my DH does better with our son. I know it's ok to let K scream and tantrum because I know it's not one of her basic needs not being met when she's tantrumming - she's just being stubborn most of the time, whereas with J, I don't know what in the heck he wants when he's crying!

I do have to say that it is difficult with a toddler and a baby because whenever you're showing J attention (the baby), K wants what he has (toy, attention, etc.) NOW. And she does love J a lot. She tries to "help", which often ends up being less helpful ... she'll give us J's pacifier / burp cloth / etc. even though we don't need it, and trip over / almost step on J in the process.

[aclee]

Originally Posted by ocracoke

My daughter was 21 months when we arrived home. And I would do it again in a heart beat. Actually next time I hope to go older. My daughter was a caged animal on day 1 and we spent abotu 1 hour together. On day 2 she ran away from me at first sight of me -- no joke -- but I forced her to spend the day with me anyway. On day 3 she went with me, unhappy at first, and spent the day. On day 4 she let me know that I was mom and I best start acting like it -- including not returning her to the orphanage at night. Each child and each family are different but personally I would take a toddler over an infant any day.

Samantha

Quit it...you know I want to go to ETH!

The emotion connecting me all the sudden to that country is just BIZARRE. I'm trying to use it to motivate me to get the bills paid off. If in a year from now, we have the adoption loans paid off...I would consider doing foster care while we wait for a referral in ETH. Did you pay as you went for the process? If we did it that way we could afford it. International, I wouldn't mind paying as we went, cause there is no real networking or speeding up the process...Course a good friend waiting for a Columbia referral just found out her agency went under. They had over 10K invested into the process with that agency... Now they are on hold waiting to see what happens with that agency and if they can get their $ back...

UGG...I was against international adoption (for us)..I might allow myself to look into it. I hate that I can't see any of the waiting children on line like you can with other countries...I e-mailed for a password to one agency, but they never responded...

[makarios79]

I adopted 2 toddlers from foster care....They are full bio brothers, but my oldest son was in relative care with his paternal grandmother most of his life and was continuously in contact with bio parents although there was a no contact order....My youngest son was in foster care from the day he was born......

My youngest son was placed with me at 13 months (He's 2.5 now) and has adjusted REALLY well, he has no issues at all...He's a normal 2 y/o.... although he is VERY SPOILED....

My oldest son on the other hand has "no official diagnosis," but he has lots of issues with abandoment, attachment, and trust issues to the point where he is requires more work and patience than when I had 2 infants combined. He is VERY NEEDY and EXTREMELY CLINGY, even after being with me for almost a 1.5 years.

Just yesterday, I wanted to rest for a few minutes before we got up to go to church...I told them to go get some toys and play in the livingroom while I layed in my bed for a few minutes. (My room is right next to the livingroom and I can see them from my bed) My youngest son (age 2) went and got his toys and played quietly, my oldest son ADAMANTLY REFUSED and stood in my door way SCREAMING AND CRYING at the top of his lungs: "I want you mommy" I need a hug."

He just kept SCREAMING it over and over again. I kept pleading with him just sit down and play..I need 5 min. Then finally...I just told him to go play and shut the door while he stood there screaming.

TRUST ME this child is in no way starved for attention and it was not going to hurt to play for a few minutes by himself. He's less than 2 months from being 4 and I had just before I went in my room given both children hugs and kisses....


I wish this was an isolated occasion, but it occurs frequently and often in public.....He's been suspended from daycare 2x and they have children's church just for him (Because he won't stop screaming in church)

He has very little impulse control and he talks NON STOP. He isn't violent anymore, but in the beginning he was VERY aggressive towards the younger kids...but he witnessed domestic violence on daily basis (even when he was in relative care).

After much fighting for over 1.5 years, we started therapy today....I felt like a huge weight was lifted off my shoulders and I am praying we can at least get his behavior manageable (sp?) He's the sweetest, smartest, most loving, most handsome (if I do sayso myself) little boy (besides my other son..he he he) in the entire world....But he definitely has his "issues"

But saying all that....

Most of the people I "PERSONALLY" know who have adopted toddlers have had little to no long term issues....Of course the beginning is going to be really scary for the toddler....but most of the kids I know of "PERSONALLY" (besides my own son of course) have adjusted really well.

EDITED TO ADD: My oldest son was 2.5 at time of placement

Originally Posted by aclee

There is a little talk on the boards about several who are or have adopted older children. We are working through foster care of our next adoption. I would like to consider an older/younger sibling group (one older than Ty, one younger...esp. if the younger one was male and the older female) but Dh would really like to adopt just one at a time, and is concerned about what the bonding would be like for a say 2 or 3 year old to us (same man that was concerned about bonding to an adopted child if we're all being honest) I think he also has a fear and a real protective instinct of Tyler (not that I don't, but his is amazing) where he doesn't want Ty to end up being the only child, or sort of shoved outta the way because other children need more care or attention. I think he's would be pretty content to sit on our duffs and just have Ty (actually he has made a lot of comments about wanting a big family too). He has a couple times said...well what to the girls on line (you guys...though I've told him there are guys here too) think/do etc. So here I am. Asking before he can ask. Can you all share with me the ins and outs of a toddler adoption. Linny, I know you aren't a fan, and I would love to hear you share more. Those that think it's great or not great, I'd like to hear it all.

Thanks!

[aclee]

I would accept a 13 month old in a heart beat (once Ty is over 13 months of course)...I've heard that it's over 18 or even 20 months that you have to start being really careful and get evaluations etc done before you think about accepting a child...

[Yash]

My youngest daughter came home at 6 1/2 months and I was shocked by my lack of love for her. She was cute and sweet and bonded varily quickly, but I felt like I was babysitting. She had her own personality, her own way she wanted things or liked things. I knew one day I would fall madly in love with her, but it took a while.

This whole process really drove home how much bonding goes on during those 1AM and 4AM feedings. My other kids came home at 5 days and 8 days. My foster daughter I picked up from the NICU at 6 days. Not quite sure when I fell in love with them, but I bet it was during those blurry eyed feedings.

Those are just my two cents. Best of luck!

[o2b30again]

We are adopting a 4,3 and 2 yr old through foster here in MN. We are not noticing any bonding issues. They have only been here for 1 1/2 months so only time will tell. We are going to be starting attachment therapy next month. If we were ever asked again to adopt in this age range I would say yes in a heartbeat. We were the first people to give them Jello and chocolate pudding. They didn't know what ice was...thought it was candy. Many things that my bio children would have already experienced by this age my new children are just experiencing. I get to be the one to show it to them. This is something that I wasn't expecting and the first few "new" things took me by surprise and saddened me. We have learned to make the most of individual moments with the children and to manage our time wisely. One thing that has been harder for us is planning appointments, school, therapy etc. With three children needing special services your weekly calendar fills up REALLY fast, especially when you add in 2 teenagers who participate in a bunch of extra curriculars. Good luck in your adoption adventures.

[Linny]

Ahhh, aclee.....just coming into this....

Let me tell ya.....I could adopt an older baby anytime. Well, just ABOUT anytime. I've come to the conclusion that adopting a baby/child/toddler before the age of 2...even a few months before the 3rd birthday, is almost safe.
Adopting a baby before the age of 12months, to me, is very safe. (Maybe because two of our babies were over 7months---almost 8months before they came home.)
One of our older child adoptions had just turned 3yrs old when he came to us; however........I have to admit that his foster parents were NOT the best people to parent...and I think that REALLY did a number on him too. (Long, LONG story...but realized by the caseworkers too.)

I know we're considering/would consider an older baby.....and I think it can be done very well, AS LONG AS the new parents educate themselves in ATTACHMENT PARENTING. Certainly, this isn't a cure-all for all children; but it surely helps. I mean, we use attachment parenting for our babies that come along as ours.

I also have to admit, now that most (if not all) of the anger is gone from our situations....that a lot of our problems weren't common. (Please read the disruption forums for details if you want.) Still, I don't think it's wise to upset the birth order of your children; nor do I think it wise to bring in a child who's been severely sexually abused...unless they're under 12months.

I say this too.....do NOT rely on the classes the foster system teaches as the 'teach-all/know-all' of older child adoptions...or even older baby adoptions. Those classes are alright---they're required, I realize....but they don't include SO many issues/needs/wants that any parent will need when having a child that's come from the foster care system.

The system likes to blame too much on 'loss of a bio home'...when, IMO, many of the problems a child/baby has, are due to the constant back and forth of bios to foster (in visits and such) confusing the child more, IMO. (And yes, I expect that I might get slammed for that remark.) I don't think you can do that to ANY baby/child, without some sort of ramifications to their security.

But, as long as you pin-point EXACTLY what you'll accept...as long as you MAKE SURE you think with your head----and NOT just your heart (because it's SO easy to think with your heart in these cases)...and, as long as you DON'T fully trust every caseworker, but demand that you have ALL of the info about the child previous to placement....(whew, I know).....you'll have a much better chance at a successful placement than you would otherwise.

Additionally, make sure you have a LOT of resources and knowledge of those resources in place before a baby/toddler even comes. (Early Intervention, specialists, hospitals, etc.)

And finally......it's a really, REALLY good idea, to join or frequently attend a support group for these types of adoptions BEFORE you even get a toddler, baby/child. These people are the ones WHO DO KNOW. They've BTDT; and if they haven't...they know the people to go to for the knowledge you may need.

Like I said, we've considered (even applied) to adopt an older toddler (2yrs and under).....privately. Not necessarily from the system, but some of the same issues will apply, I'm sure. Just be careful, knowledgable and cautious. Some older child adoptions DO work---I know because we have some in our church. But, generally, the older the child, the more issues you'll have.

Please feel free to pm me...and my VERY BEST TO YOU!

Most Sincerely,

Linny

[Sleeplvr]

I wouldn't adopt a child older than 2 and would not break the birth order. You should keep Ty the oldest. I listened to DH in one of our foster placements and took a 4 year old. DD and that little girl were jockeying for the Queen B spot. It was so much chaos that we ended up having her moved. She was the only child we ever had moved and I feel awful about it. Lesson learned is to never listen to DH. As long as any new children were the same age or younger than my two everything was fine. Save yourself the drama and keep Ty the oldest. You won't believe the things a 3 or 4 year old has seen. I am not discouraging older child adoption... I just think you have to put more thought into your kids you already have at home and put them in a leader/role model position. You wouldn't want an older child influencing his behavior.

[HappyHopefulMommy]

We were placed with a sib set of 3 a month ago. They are 3, 5 and 6. We mantained birth order though as we have a bio daugther who is 8. Our 3 year old is a handful, but a sweetheart. I love now that the 3 older kids are in school and I get to have her during the days (she will go to preschool a few hours a week starting next week though). I think we are attaching well, but if you ask her how many moms she has, she will say "5". She is still very confused, but I know that will get better. She can have quite the temper tantrum, but they are getting SOOO much better. Like PP I also have been surprised by some of the firsts, like French toast and hot chocolate. It was kind of fun, but sad because that is "normal" food to us. I LOVE babies and we want a baby next time, but toddlers are fun and I like that they can communicate and try to tell you what is wrong.

[aclee]

It's all ocracoke's fault...

I finally broke down and talked to DH last night about adopting again privately. I told him all about how we can't afford it, and international adoption isn't right for our family and it's not what I want...BUT, my heart is somewhere in...Ethiopia. He was a little floored. He said, what about all the AA babies here? My line. AND what about a lack of communication with the bio family? Also my line. I shrugged. He sat there for a minute and he said, I'm sorry honey, I just don't think we could. I couldn't do that kind of traveling anymore...how would we know if they would be able to care for me if something went wrong while we were there? I actually BRIGHTENED when he said this and said...I actually wanted to go alone anyway. I think that surprised him. I don't want Ty to travel internationally. I want DH to stay here with Ty, and I would go get the baby. I NEVER thought DH would go for that....I didn't think he would go for any of it...even a little. But he did. I really think he could see on my face how serious I was about it. He said the line may regret forever...he said, "Do the research."
So our current plan is to wait till Jan. We're going to see what progress we can make on our house and debt by the end of January. We're going to start MAPP classes in January and begin foster care when we're approved. During spring and summer we're going to keep working on the debt we drove up with Ty's adoption. THEN late spring, early summer, we're going to think about starting an adoption in Ethiopia. If God has other plans than that for us, then hopefully he'll bring us a child through foster care. If Ethiopia is the rigth direction for us, we're going wait and find an agency that we can pay as we go (which I think most agencies are) We would specify any child younger than Tyler (just like we will with foster care) and I'm going to look for the RIGHT adoption agency...ocracoke got me a good start. IF that agency will allow gender selection...I would (Girl)...if the agency we choose, doesn't, then I wouldn't (DH preference)...I think we will think about not brand spanking new infant, but under 2 (cause Ty would likely be older than 2 before the baby came home...BUT if we got a placement through DCYF, we'll just go on the list for an infant. Which I hear takes about 18 months or more anyway

SO...we're going to just take every path we can, and see what pans out. I am going to get a book on attachement parenting though

[cbrink7]

Originally Posted by aclee

It's all ocracoke's fault...

I finally broke down and talked to DH last night about adopting again privately. I told him all about how we can't afford it, and international adoption isn't right for our family and it's not what I want...BUT, my heart is somewhere in...Ethiopia. He was a little floored. He said, what about all the AA babies here? My line. AND what about a lack of communication with the bio family? Also my line. I shrugged. He sat there for a minute and he said, I'm sorry honey, I just don't think we could. I couldn't do that kind of traveling anymore...how would we know if they would be able to care for me if something went wrong while we were there? I actually BRIGHTENED when he said this and said...I actually wanted to go alone anyway. I think that surprised him. I don't want Ty to travel internationally. I want DH to stay here with Ty, and I would go get the baby. I NEVER thought DH would go for that....I didn't think he would go for any of it...even a little. But he did. I really think he could see on my face how serious I was about it. He said the line may regret forever...he said, "Do the research."
So our current plan is to wait till Jan. We're going to see what progress we can make on our house and debt by the end of January. We're going to start MAPP classes in January and begin foster care when we're approved. During spring and summer we're going to keep working on the debt we drove up with Ty's adoption. THEN late spring, early summer, we're going to think about starting an adoption in Ethiopia. If God has other plans than that for us, then hopefully he'll bring us a child through foster care. If Ethiopia is the rigth direction for us, we're going wait and find an agency that we can pay as we go (which I think most agencies are) We would specify any child younger than Tyler (just like we will with foster care) and I'm going to look for the RIGHT adoption agency...ocracoke got me a good start. IF that agency will allow gender selection...I would (Girl)...if the agency we choose, doesn't, then I wouldn't (DH preference)...I think we will think about not brand spanking new infant, but under 2 (cause Ty would likely be older than 2 before the baby came home...BUT if we got a placement through DCYF, we'll just go on the list for an infant. Which I hear takes about 18 months or more anyway

SO...we're going to just take every path we can, and see what pans out. I am going to get a book on attachement parenting though

Don't you just love the "Ok, do the research" line! Your husband sounds a bit like mine, just needs time to digest the info on his own but always comes around Congrats !