[Whirled_Peas]

Things are very different with this baby than when I gave birth. I'm wondering how much is adoption and how much is second time mom.

After birth, the hormones do amazing things to one's brain. I became this ooey, gooey, smarmy person. I signed him up for a motor class called, "Wiggle Bells," right before Christmas. The name of the class was so sweet it made me cry. Ugh. I am not that type of person. Really. It was the hormones.

Thankfully I'm not that way this time. There are other differences that I'm trying to sort out. With bio baby, any time he cried I was beside myself. It seared my soul. I don't feel that way this time. I attend to her needs right away, but I'm not going to die if she whimpers (she actually rarely cries) for an extra 5 seconds.

I also don't have the "fantasies" of horrible things happening to her. I've talked with plenty of bio-moms and this is common. All kinds of unspeakable fears of things happening to their baby. I think it's nature's way of keeping us prepared to keep these little ones safe. I like it this way better. It was always so disturbing with my son.

I'm also not as giddy in love. I like this baby a lot, but I am not as over-the-top as I was with my bio child. I think hormone differences may account for a lot of that. I'm just wondering how much is the second time for anything isn't as lustrous as the first time.

Then there's that little bit of emotional space I have to keep until dad's rights are severed in mid-Oct. No one expects dad to come forward, but I live with this constant fear we could, theoretically, lose her. So how much does that make a difference?

I think every parent has a different relationship with every child. I'm just surprised at some of the differences and I'm wondering if anyone has thoughts on these.

[startedover]

Been doing this for 19 years, and as you read earlier in my thread, not always right. I will bet you that your feelings are going to be different every time whether you go on to adopt or have more children. I did worry a little that I didn't go oeey gooey right off the bat when I adopted my daughter, but 19 months later I am very aware of how much I love this little one. And also how differently I do. It was the same with my second (bio) son. Also, when you are having to kind of "guard" your feelings in adoption until all is said and done, I believe that can be a major factor in how we are with our children. I think the NEWESt of the first child (and the hormones and not knowing what to expect) play into alot of how we are as parents And remember you are "educated" this time. I assure you that there is going to be a time very soon when you realize you are ooeey gooey. It may be hearing her cry from the other room because you put her in time out (lol) and your heart is breaking, but it will come.

[aclee]

Originally Posted by Whirled_Peas

Things are very different with this baby than when I gave birth. I'm wondering how much is adoption and how much is second time mom.

After birth, the hormones do amazing things to one's brain. I became this ooey, gooey, smarmy person. I signed him up for a motor class called, "Wiggle Bells," right before Christmas. The name of the class was so sweet it made me cry. Ugh. I am not that type of person. Really. It was the hormones.

Thankfully I'm not that way this time. There are other differences that I'm trying to sort out. With bio baby, any time he cried I was beside myself. It seared my soul. I don't feel that way this time. I attend to her needs right away, but I'm not going to die if she whimpers (she actually rarely cries) for an extra 5 seconds.

I also don't have the "fantasies" of horrible things happening to her. I've talked with plenty of bio-moms and this is common. All kinds of unspeakable fears of things happening to their baby. I think it's nature's way of keeping us prepared to keep these little ones safe. I like it this way better. It was always so disturbing with my son.

I'm also not as giddy in love. I like this baby a lot, but I am not as over-the-top as I was with my bio child. I think hormone differences may account for a lot of that. I'm just wondering how much is the second time for anything isn't as lustrous as the first time.

Then there's that little bit of emotional space I have to keep until dad's rights are severed in mid-Oct. No one expects dad to come forward, but I live with this constant fear we could, theoretically, lose her. So how much does that make a difference?

I think every parent has a different relationship with every child. I'm just surprised at some of the differences and I'm wondering if anyone has thoughts on these.

I can't comment on birth vs. adopted, but many of the things you listed with your bio child, I have with Ty, so maybe it is more first vs second. I think it really depends on how how much child experience you have too. I don't run to him every whimper, but I knew I wouldn't be that kind of Mom. I am gaga in love (like you all can't tell) to the point I make others insane. They deal The first time I saw Ty all dressed in blue I was bawling my eyes out. Stupid stuff about him makes me cry all the time. He gargled his formula the other day (a new trick) and it sounded like Mama and I thought I was gonna lose it.

I have the intense fear of loss...I chalked that up to everything I've been through since he came to us though. Even if it's not overwhelming I am VERY MUCH a cherish every instant person. I almost lost my husband though, so I think the fear is pretty well founded Life can change in an instance and I have a VERY healthy respect for that. Not sure if that has anything to do with first, second, bio or adopted....it's just how I am.

[Fran27]

I think it's probably about a bit of everything... I don't have any other children obviously, but it's always more difficult with the second one... You have less time to spend with your other child for one, and yes, most of the moms I've talked to who have other children are much less worried all the time about little things. I'm sure not dealing with hormones helps, too, and the worry you might lose her...

I know I worry all the time, but again, I have no child experience, I've lost a lot of people in my life and I'm used to having bad things happen, so it's probably understandable. I never went crazy about every little whimper, but I think it's a twin thing. Having two, you know one of them is going to end up crying at some point while you tend the other, and there's just so much you can do about it, but finish tending to the first baby asap first or you end up with two crying babies.

[KarynB]

From my experience, it is just difference in children. My oldest bio DD I was in some ways as you mentioned, but not really woried about things like sterilizing the bottles to perfection, or freaking out if she cried. I didn't need to have all the cutsie baby things, and was quite relaxed for a first time mom. I did, however, imagine all sorts of things happening to her, and dreamt about them all the time.

Our middle son was three when he joined our family and I really never worry about him ( I know that sounds HORRIBLE - but listen first (-: ). He spent the first three years of his life in an orphanage, and he is as tough as nails. Loves a cuddle and a kiss - but this kid is a survivor. So - do I have to worry about him getting sick from eating stuff off the floor? Nope. I know he'll outlive us all...no doubt about it. LOL.

Our (adopted) baby is a different story - it is all as you mentioned. My friends make fun of me because I am so careful with him - the exact opposite of what I was with my first two. I HATE to hear him cry, it literally tears me up. I won't leave him with anyone outside the family, and he is 2 now. I wanted to bring him to our sons school for the Roots of Empathy program but couldn't do it because of all the germs going around the school and the kids touching him all the time - and if you know me at all this is SO NOT LIKE ME!!!!! I've travelled in India solo and eaten street-meat for goodness sakes!

So - my theory is that we have a built in intuition as to what each of our kids need. Maybe my bio DD needed me to push her to be a bit more independant, our last guy needs to extra attention.

Also - give yourself time. It can take time to attach to a new baby/child - after all, they are strangers to us too -and one day you'll all of a sudden you'll realize you are there! Just keep doing all the attachment stuff and maybe (if possible) create some time for just you and your DD - I know its hard because your son is still little too - but it may help.

Good luck!

[MommyToTwo]

I was the same way with my first. And he came to live with us as a foster child at 5 months old!

We picked up #2 from the hospital (domestic newborn adoption) and it wasn't until she was about 8 or 9 months old I finally felt the unbelievably strong love that I had felt with my son. I never had any of the fears about her like I did with my son, let her play on her own more as a baby rather than holding her constantly, etc.

I'm guessing this is more of a #2 thing than an adoption thing, but certainly the fear of losing her could be affecting how quickly/strongly you are bonding right now.

[Whirled_Peas]

Really interesting ideas here.

I have a LOT of prior baby/child experience. I worked NICU for 4 years. I'm used to doing very painful things to babies.

I worked L&D both in hospital and free-standing birth center. Spent 2 1/2 years doing a private duty case starting when he was 3. Worked a couple years in a day care for both typical and special needs kids. I've cared for kids who have had bone marrow transplants. I'm a stepmom who got the first batch of kids when they were 5 and 7 (now 17 and 19.) Plus my parents were foster parents for newborns my entire high school career.

Needless to say, caring for a baby is a no-brainer for me. When my son was born caring for him was easy (except that we did EC, which I knew nothing about.) It was the rawness of my emotions that I found overwhelming. It's not like I was overly concerned about the world, he was licked by our dog when he was 12 hours old (though I kept away people with colds.) It was just so...emotional.

I also wonder how much has to do with the fact that we had no time to prepare emotionally for her arrival. We got "the call" at 9:42am (according to my cell phone) and we met her at 2:21 pm. I still can't believe we have a baby and we've had her for almost 2 weeks.

When my son was first born, it was all so surreal. I stared at this little creature and wondered where he'd come from. I took care of him because it was my job, but I had no real attachment. Then at 24 hours it all erupted and I have been an emotional slave ever since.

I'm glad other people have had similar experiences. I was afraid I'd be accused of not appreciating her or whatever. That is not true, I'm just trying to sort out the differences.

I also live with the constant fear she'll go away. No one believes dad will take her. Mom says she doesn't even know who dad is and everyone believes her. Still, what a scary thought.

I also worry about the stress she underwent during the pregnancy. Bmom was so stressed. There are studies showing that children who gestated during war have increased risk of schizophrenia because of maternal stress. We really know very little about the mom and nothing about the dad. We don't know their mental health background. I just can't bear the thought that she could end up with a mental illness because I couldn't care for her before she was born. I'm doing everything there is to be done to help her brain grow right--I'm nursing her, I wear her constantly, and we co-sleep. All that contact is what she needs to help her brain (brain connections need touch to form.) I guess we all have to worry about something. At least I'm worrying about something that I can take actions for.

Anyways, I'm really enjoying everyone's comments and I hope to read more. Thanks for your input.

[Stormster]

Another perspective. As you know we had to give back a little boy, Ryan after 5 days. When I first held him my heart broke wide open and I felt an instant connection.

Between the time he was placed in my arms and the time Ethan was born we survived the failed placement of Ryan (agony), a bad scam and 2 failed matches i think my heart must have really shut down or something. Having to put E back in the hospital after 8 days and caring for him there, not knowing if what he had might damage him permanently didn't help me.

I wouldn't underestimate the termination of the father's right's effects on your feelings. I'm not proud of the way my obvious PTSD effected things and I always acted as if and doted on him in every way but it wasn't until finalization at 7 or 8 months that I really let myself fall. (None of it was conscious btw) And I believe it was because I no longer had any fear that he would be taken away from us like Ryan was.

I also think that because we did not carry them for nine months, maybe there is an initial period of time that is kind of like an emotional pregnancy for some of us. I don't doubt that some feel it all instantly as I did with Ryan but I don't think we should find it surprising that some of us don't bond instantly.

And remember some BIO moms don't bond either right away.

BTW I DO have those weird flashes of danger you were talking about. Ugh I hate it! I'm like Where Did That Come From? I have no doubt I'm now wired the same way I would have been had I given birth to him. I am beyond connected now and my instincts/empathy/maternal love are totally THERE. But I think it's based on the mothering itself rather than the bio connection. I guess the body/brain creates those synapses just by the act of doing and being kwim?

[Stormster]

Originally Posted by Whirled_Peas

I also worry about the stress she underwent during the pregnancy. Bmom was so stressed. There are studies showing that children who gestated during war have increased risk of schizophrenia because of maternal stress. We really know very little about the mom and nothing about the dad. We don't know their mental health background. I just can't bear the thought that she could end up with a mental illness because I couldn't care for her before she was born. I'm doing everything there is to be done to help her brain grow right--I'm nursing her, I wear her constantly, and we co-sleep. All that contact is what she needs to help her brain (brain connections need touch to form.) I guess we all have to worry about something. At least I'm worrying about something that I can take actions for.

Anyways, I'm really enjoying everyone's comments and I hope to read more. Thanks for your input.

Not being able to control the pre natal environment is part of what we as adoptive parents sign up for. I really think you need to just let her be. If every kid born to a stressed out mother got schizophrenia the entire world would be a giant mental health facility! I could understand your fears if the baby was drug or alcohol exposed but I really think you're going some place you don't need to go. BTW my own brother has schizophrenia and it's been blamed on everything from environment to genetics to diet and much much more. It's always going to be something. Environment counts for a LOT with mental illness. Look at the babies of Korean and Vietnamese mothers during the wars there. Those women didn't have a higher incidence of miscarriage and I believe that the children didn't have a higher incidence of mental illness than the rest of the population. (I have to dig up those studies). It's because of the diet and environment and I also remember reading that the babies who were carried had lower incidence of PTSD. Just be the great mother you are!

[AdoptInMe]

This post really caught my attention, because we adopted Katie a year ago, and everything you mentioned feeling with your bio child, I have felt with her. I was ga ga over her, and still am. I felt an instant bond with her. I have flashes of fear for her as she grows. I have been a nanny for 20 years, helping raise many kids, so I've never had a big issue with babies crying, and that still holds true for Katie. I am in agony, if I know she is in pain, but if it's just communication, I don't get upset. I think that is a first-time parent thing.

We are now considering trying IVF, so I am scared about whether I would feel differently about a biological child. I can't imagine that I would, because I'm already wondering whether any child can live up to my "perrfect" baby girl. But, I'm almost afraid to go this route. I am so happy with the adoption that I wonder how things will be different with a bio child. Katie is adopted, I almost feel that all my children should be. Then I remind myself that that's crazy. They will all be my children, regardless of how they enter our family, and I will love them all endlessly.

[Whirled_Peas]

Originally Posted by AdoptInMe

I am scared about whether I would feel differently about a biological child. I can't imagine that I would, because I'm already wondering whether any child can live up to my "perrfect" baby girl.

Yeah, I was afraid no baby would live up to my "perfect" son. Of course, now that she's here, I do compare. She cries less than he did (if that's possible, gotta love attachment parenting,) she makes more eye contact. So, so far she's holding her own and I've lost the "will she live up" stuff.

[Stormster]

Originally Posted by Stormster

Environment counts for a LOT with mental illness.

Just want to clarify I didn't mean prenatal environment I meant dysfunctional family environment and perhaps other factors.

[Whirled_Peas]

Originally Posted by Stormster

Not being able to control the pre natal environment is part of what we as adoptive parents sign up for. I really think you need to just let her be.

Okay, Stormster, if you, of all people, say to lighten up, I will.

However, the studies are out there supporting my worries. Believe me, if I'm going to worry about something, I'm going to find good studies to support me in doing so. (LOL) I may be the renegade crunchy granola mama here, but I have good sources for all my cutting edge, non-mainstream ideas (and, in this case, neurosis!!!)

[jalapeno]

Every child is so different. Sometimes it just takes a little longer to develop that intense parent/child bond. That's how human relationships are. I was very ooey gooey gaga over my first foster child (my first real experience with a baby). I was very protective of him. I couldn't stand hearing him cry. I signed him up for all the fun baby classes too. And I really felt sorry for my daughter when she came along because I thought she would have to live in his shadow. Well, we were ultimately unable to adopt him. But I can't imagine my daughter in anyone's shadow now. It just took me a few months to really develop that connection with her. We adopted prior to having our bio child. I think I bonded with our bio pretty quickly but I didn't do the ooey gooey thing with him. No doubt everything plays a part in the establishment of that bond - the experience of the parent, whether or not there are other children to care for, whether or not there is a TPR looming, the temperament and health of the baby, etc.

[ourdreamcametru]

I think it's baby vs. baby. I have two bio boys and with the first we were so relaxed and laid back, he was a very laid back baby so I think this is why we were the way we were with him. The second was a very VERY high maintance baby, still is at almost 14! He cried all the time, still wears his feelings on his sleeve, very sensitive and much more dependent. This made us more on edge with him, worried about him, I guess more intune to him. Then Castle came along and I think we have all treated her differently because she is not only the baby but a girl. She demands attention in a different way then either of the boys did and is so "baby" I think because she is a girly girl and they were boys. Like an above poster said, I think you react to each in a different way wheather they are first, second, third, adopted or bio each is their own person and has different needs and wants.