[Stormster]

So E is on the cusp of toddlerhood so I have kind of started watching toddlers. Every time toddlers (usually boys) come to play with Ethan I'm so happy. He loves big boys. But the parents (the mothers usually) are such a buzz kill! Am I going to turn into one of them? Are we all doomed to be forever saying No E, No E, give it to him E, let the baby play with it E etc etc. Some of them sound like they are training dogs!

E totally still shares, can take a push and a knock and just wants to PLAY! I usually say "oh don't worry he's very strong and loves to play with older kids" because it's true. He's never ever cried because a child took a toy away (yet) and is very social so its' always really disappointing when these visits turn into something difficult.

If the toddler has a truck and E reaches for it, why can't they just let the kids work it out? Am I in the minority here? Or is toddlerhood really about this constant nagging to share? I'm writing this because one mom in the docs office the other day was just sending so many confusing messages to her 2 year old who just wanted to play and interact.

Can't it be more fun than this? I'm not judging I'm just asking because maybe that's just how it is for parents of toddlers. Don't the kids have to LEARN to share not just be TOLD to share? Any insight will be greatly appreciated. And to those of you who are thinking "JUST WAIT STORMSTER, JUST WAIT" I really do want to know! (just thought I'd use the old gnome here) THANK YOU!

[JustPeachy]

I've not raised any children, but from what I see with the moms in my family and my friends with toddlers, they try not to interfere so much and let the kids sort out their own issues, unless and until the situation gets out of control or dangerous.

Like you, they don't like the "helicopter parenting" that some moms are doing nowadays.

I suppose if I had kids, I would feel as you, since a lot of the way kids are raised today is so foreign to me. I probably sound like an old geezer, but when I was growing up, we didn't have "playdates." We just got together and played. We didn't have mom supervising our every move or worrying and fussing so much. And we didn't have so much structured activity and scheduling. The moms would get together and have their "mom time" and the kids would pretty much play on their own, with the occasional need for intervention on the parents' part.

Maybe you could suggest to these particular moms to let the kids handle things and figure things out for themselves while you have some adult time? Or else find moms who are more in line with your parenting style?? Or, have the kids over without the moms???? I dunno. Just throwing out some ideas. Again, I'm not a mom, so not sure if I'm being helpful!

[nikkianni]

I think too that when we're in public, we want our kids to be perfectly mannered, giving, sharing little darlings. It's that best foot forward thing.
Plus, toddlers are testing boundaries like no other. DD isn't even toddling (much) yet and she does it all the time.
I'm going to take this....no?....OK, I'll just TOUCH it and see what you do.....fine, I can't touch it either, well I'll just throw myself down and pretend to cry. So there.
I think that we end up correcting, restricting, etc. more in the second year because they're exploring and understanding more. It's not just about the accomplishments and milestones anymore. It's about learning manners too. And dangers. And how to properly interact.
DD's cousin is three weeks younger. Generally we've always let them figure things out between them and they've done really well. Last weekend they had their first fight over a sippy cup. It was bound to happen and that's when we as parents stepped in.
The need to correct, guide, etc. just happens more as they get older.

[Stormster]

Peach: I'm with you! I'm an "older" mom and DH is an old fashioned Englishman. I don't do force feeding, flash cards in French, or "helicopter parenting" AWESOME term! I also don't freak out when DS falls (though neither does he so that probably helps )

I just want him to feel free and play a lot and be a kid! Kids in daycare or who live on Kibbutz or whatever don't have a 1 on 1 mom hovering over their every move and those kids do great!

[Stormster]

Originally Posted by nikkianni

I think too that when we're in public, we want our kids to be perfectly mannered, giving, sharing little darlings. It's that best foot forward thing.
Plus, toddlers are testing boundaries like no other. DD isn't even toddling (much) yet and she does it all the time.
I'm going to take this....no?....OK, I'll just TOUCH it and see what you do.....fine, I can't touch it either, well I'll just throw myself down and pretend to cry. So there.
I think that we end up correcting, restricting, etc. more in the second year because they're exploring and understanding more. It's not just about the accomplishments and milestones anymore. It's about learning manners too. And dangers. And how to properly interact.
DD's cousin is three weeks younger. Generally we've always let them figure things out between them and they've done really well. Last weekend they had their first fight over a sippy cup. It was bound to happen and that's when we as parents stepped in.
The need to correct, guide, etc. just happens more as they get older.

Nikki I hear you. But this one kid in the docs office his FINGER would move and the mom POUNCED. It was toooooo much. Don't want a little psychopath either. I guess I will find my happy medium!

[OakShannon]

I was at a backyard barbecue a few days ago, and there was a water table set up for the little kids. My kiddo loves water, so I had him standing at the table so he could splash. A 20 month old little boy saw us and came barreling over, crashed into the table and splashed a significant amount of water in Daniel's face.

Typical toddler, right? I wasn't upset and Daniel was startled but otherwise fine.

His mom was clearly embarassed, though and I noticed that while she was saying, "No" to her son and telling him to let the baby play, she was looking at me - probably worried that I was mad. I wonder how often parents of those rough and tumble toddlers overreact because they worry that other parents are going to judge them for not controlling their child. Or think their child is not well behaved, instead of recognizing that this is just normal toddler behavior, KWIM? I could be calm about it, but I wonder if I would have reacted the same way if the shoe was on the other foot and I had the older, bigger child who was grabbing a toy away or knocking over a littler child.

[Stormster]

Originally Posted by OakShannon

I was at a backyard barbecue a few days ago, and there was a water table set up for the little kids. My kiddo loves water, so I had him standing at the table so he could splash. A 20 month old little boy saw us and came barreling over, crashed into the table and splashed a significant amount of water in Daniel's face.

Typical toddler, right? I wasn't upset and Daniel was startled but otherwise fine.

His mom was clearly embarassed, though and I noticed that while she was saying, "No" to her son and telling him to let the baby play, she was looking at me - probably worried that I was mad. I wonder how often parents of those rough and tumble toddlers overreact because they worry that other parents are going to judge them for not controlling their child. Or think their child is not well behaved, instead of recognizing that this is just normal toddler behavior, KWIM? I could be calm about it, but I wonder if I would have reacted the same way if the shoe was on the other foot and I had the older, bigger child who was grabbing a toy away or knocking over a littler child.

Shannon YES I agree totally. That is why I was surprised when my words "don't worry he's tough and loves to play with older boys" fell on deaf ears! Still, who knows, maybe that kid had aggression problems or whatever and I try not to judge other styles of parenting but lately I just feel like E doesn't meet that many kids he can just play with freely kwim?

[Saya]

You know, you parent the kid you've got. My daughter is 28 months, and she is not naturally a good sharer. While she is getting better, she has definitely gone through multiple stages of hitting other kids (though never that hard) and stealing their toys. I don't think of myself as a "helicopter mom," but I think that when Anabel grabs something that another kid is playing with - especially if that child is younger and smaller then she is - it is my responsibility to help out. Hopefully (and more so now that she'd a little older) the intervention will just be saying "you know, he is playing with that now - why don't you ask if you can take a turn when he's done?" and she'll give it back and that will be that. But there are times when those toddler interactions on the playground QUICKLY descend into screams and hitting. I feel like most parents I see in the playground are pretty good about trying to establish a balance between letting kids figure things out themselves and stepping in when necessary. But each parent knows their child best, and knows what kind of supervision they need.

E.g. my brother's daughter is just Anabel's age. Anabel is sweet, adventurous, boisterous, free-spirited, and REALLY strong for her age. My niece is spunky as well but tiny and delicate, and her world and her actions tend to be smaller. Thus my brother and SIL tend to have a more hands off style of parenting. When we went to their house, my brother told us, "just sit down - don't feel you have to supervise Anabel so closely. The house is kid-proofed and the girls can go play." But they, of course, were thinking about their kid, not mine. Anabel very quickly, and with no malice: broke the handle off their fridge; found where the knives were; knocked over a Japanese screen in the living room; figured out how to reach the cat's out-of-bounds hiding place; and hit her cousin several times. Oh, and more then once she has broken the child proof locks off our kitchen cabinets. The fact is, Anabel needs more active parenting then some other kids.

(Another lovely example of toddlers "working it out" from a few months ago - Anabel has a close friend named Ella who lives up the block. They're exactly the same age. I was in the playground with Ella's dad, sitting on a bench watching the girls play at a distance. We were talking about how nice it was that the the girls were now old enough that we didn't have to watch them like hawks in the playground, we could sit for a few minutes while they played. Only to be interrupted by piercing screams a few moments later from the other end of the playground where they were - we of course ran over. They had gotten into a fight over a play stroller, scratched each other in the face, and both drawn blood. Ah, toddlers. . .)

[Vogi2002]

I say NO all the time to big C....because people underestimate how quickly he goes from a to IN TROUBLE! LOL Though with other kids I do tend to be better, because he is a pretty good sharer, but only because I have to "teach" him...telling him to give the item back, etc. He definetely pushes his boundaries EVERY day so if I didn't one day, he would take that and RUN! LOL

If we are in a dr office and his finger goes up...I pounce...because otherwise he will be breaking EVERYTHING and taking EVERYTHING in a seconds time. He is my curious C!

[Stormster]

Jillian and Vogi thanks for that. I agree you have to parent the kid you've got. Great way of putting it.

[finallyamom0310]

Storm, I think it also depends on the kids they are playing with. For instance, my DD when playing with the girl next door, I have to watch like a hawk and over use the word no. Mostly because the girl next door, practically a niece, at age 4 doesn't share well and if something is taken from her she immediatly tattles. I have found in order to protect DD from all the complaints I just need to say no and let the other girl have the toy back when DD takes it.

On the other hand, when she plays with her cousin that is about a year older, I don't do anything. It's my SIL that is teaching my nephew to share so is doing the opposite and telling my nephew to give the toy back to DD.

In our house or in familiar areas I try not to say no all the time because I know we will be saying it from now till she is at least 18. LOL

[loveajax]

I just read something yesterday that kids really don't "get" sharing until age 4 (why didn't someone tell me that years ago!!).

I have to say that when DD grabs toys, etc., I do discipline her.

But Stormster, she is really a sweetie pie and loves babies. She will go up and coo and sometimes tickle their toes and I have to say most people don't respond kindly. It kind of breaks my heart, but that's their "parenting" too. I sometimes wish everyone had the same parenting styles so you "knew" what people expected from your own kid!

I read something on helicopter parenting and I went, OMG!!!! DH and I "kick it old school" and we are just amazed at how hovering parents are these days. I don't know if it's "good" or "bad" but it is sure different from when I was growing up (and I think we turned out OK, of course!).

[ocracoke]

I read a book recently (can't for the life of me remember the title recently) which said the 2 most toxic forms of parenting are "helicopter" and "drill sargeant". The Helicopter swoops in and takes care of all problems because they feel pain when their child feels pain. As a result not allowing their child to learn decision making or any other hard lesson. And the drill sargeant badgers and badgers until the child is compliant often leading to a defiant child and more arguing. I find myself saying to my now 3 year old a lot "figure it out, Honey." And yet she still argues with me on a regular basis. So now I just tell her that I am not going to argue with her either. Parenting a smart child just doesn't seem to be all that easy.

Samantha

[blessedbybug]

Originally Posted by Stormster

So E is on the cusp of toddlerhood so I have kind of started watching toddlers. Every time toddlers (usually boys) come to play with Ethan I'm so happy. He loves big boys. But the parents (the mothers usually) are such a buzz kill! Am I going to turn into one of them? Are we all doomed to be forever saying No E, No E, give it to him E, let the baby play with it E etc etc. Some of them sound like they are training dogs!

E totally still shares, can take a push and a knock and just wants to PLAY! I usually say "oh don't worry he's very strong and loves to play with older kids" because it's true. He's never ever cried because a child took a toy away (yet) and is very social so its' always really disappointing when these visits turn into something difficult.

If the toddler has a truck and E reaches for it, why can't they just let the kids work it out? Am I in the minority here? Or is toddlerhood really about this constant nagging to share? I'm writing this because one mom in the docs office the other day was just sending so many confusing messages to her 2 year old who just wanted to play and interact.

Can't it be more fun than this? I'm not judging I'm just asking because maybe that's just how it is for parents of toddlers. Don't the kids have to LEARN to share not just be TOLD to share? Any insight will be greatly appreciated. And to those of you who are thinking "JUST WAIT STORMSTER, JUST WAIT" I really do want to know! (just thought I'd use the old gnome here) THANK YOU!

I agree with you in everything you said. And for my children, they do alot of working it out among themselves.

But it is easier said than done at times depending on other people's parenting styles. I have learned that one of the first discussions that needs to happen when it is a new playdate relationship is to talk about how the parents what to handle things. Part of my job as I see it as a parent is to teach my children to play lovingly, esp with kids younger than them. They aren't on a level playing field if a toddler can push and shove and E can't negotiate yet. I've been on that end where the bigger kid (and in one situation VERY big kids) were unkind to my littles because they could be. And it harmed the relationship overall because I ended up always being the bad guy in order to protect my child. And it made me very aware of how I wanted my children to treat other children. So in theory it's a good idea, what you said, as long as everyone understands the ground rules on when to intervene. These kind of things are definitely more about the parents than the children.

[MamaS]

I am raising a 5-year-old boy and my daughter is raising her 2-year-old daughter. We live close together and see each other several times a week. My daughter tends to be a "Helicopter Drill Seargeant", hovering over the area shouting orders. She is the mother and I do not interfere with her parenting decisions no matter how ridiculous they are.
However, my little Spiderman has noticed the difference. The last time the little Princess visited, he said "You know, Nana, Cee-Cee is a lot more fun to play with when Aunt Sassy doesn't come!" Kids know.