[SupaModel]

Originally Posted by KarynB

I think the point is that black children (especially black male children) are often at the bottom of the barrel, so to speak.

I think this sucks BUT fortunately for me we really wanted a male child.

[KarynB]

I don't mean to be rude here, Supa, but I said a black male child - not just a male child.

[SupaModel]

My son is a BLACK male child! We are very happy with him.

[aclee]

Originally Posted by SupaModel

My son is a BLACK male child! We are very happy with him.

Supa-
I meant to ask you this, but never did. Sorry if this is sort of hijacking this thread...I recall a thread (similar to this one...deja vue) where you said you were only looking for a BR male, because you were in a BR relationship. As I recall right till the end of that whole thread, you stuck to your guns and said you and DH would only accept a BR infant. From pictures of H, I couldn't tell one way or another...but if you are comfortable, could you share what ended up changing both your mind on that? If it's too personal, I understand, I was just curious what caused you to open up your options.

I adopted a black male too. We knew going in that if we didn't specify anything the odds were as high as 75 or 80 percent that we would end up matched to a situation where the gender was either unknown or male. He was meant to be our son. Now that we are looking at foster care I'm SICKENED then there are many, many young black males and young black male sibling groups available. All the SW say that they go LAST. Very sad. I want one daughter, so I can braid her hair...after that, we're all about adopting those adorable boys

[KarynB]

My mistake Supa, I also thought you and DH decided to pursue only BR situations, and therefore your son was biracial. Of course that would mean he is also AA, but BR is not the same as AA in terms of what aparents are willing to accept. Many times I've read willing to "accept" BR but not "full" AA.

[aclee]

Originally Posted by KarynB

Many times I've read willing to "accept" BR but not "full" AA.

I've also seen this. I've seen lists of parents and they are broken down by parents accepting CC, parents accepting CC and BR, and parents accepting any race INCLUDING FULL AA (it actually says that...like "any race" could be said, but not include full AA...)

[Fran27]

Originally Posted by KarynB

But, on that note I also think maybe some who are defensive about this issue are maybe not 100% comfortable with their decision.

Or maybe they're just sick of being called lazy or racist.

When you guys say such things about people who are not open to race, it's what you're calling all of us, however good our reasons are. Maybe I'm defensive because I'm actually hoping to make some of you reconsider their opinion, but apparently I'm wasting my time.

Again, just because some people are racist doesn't mean we all are. Ugh!!!

[OakShannon]

Originally Posted by Fran27

For people who don't understand why some people (me included) don't really care for posting on such discussions anymore... It's because you might find it respectful, but it really isn't. For people who were not open to other races, it's just insult after insult, whether it's that it's 'a form of racism' to being lazy parents and whatnot.

The point is, nobody can judge a situation until they've been in it. Maybe for most of you adopting transracially wasn't half the challenge it would be for other people... how would you know? For people who can't afford to move, don't live in a diverse area, and have family that might not be open minded on transracial adoption, it is a BIG challenge. Everyone can't 'just move'. Bio parents don't have to, so why should we? And a lot of people don't want to risk their child's happiness by 'challenging themselves' or whatever you guys called it. If I'm going to challenge myself, I won't put an innocent child in the middle of it.

I really don't see how this discussion has been disrespectful - many people have pointed out that they themselves said no to other issues they felt ill-equipped to handle, such as special needs. I do not feel superior to other families because I was open to transracial adoption. I said my own "no's"

My brother has Down Syndrome. I love my brother - we've always been very close. When Elizabeth and I were in matching, we were asked if we would be willing to take a beautiful, healthy 6-week-old baby girl with Down Syndrome. I looked at her picture and I looked at my partner . . . and we said no. Not because we felt we could not love her. Not because we felt we did not have the resources necessary to care for her. I actually thought of my mother - who is nearing 60 and still spends each day caring for and worrying about my brother. She oversees his finances so he doesn't spend his rent money on wrestling videos. She shops at the grocery store where he works so she can check to make sure he is clean shaven and has clean clothes on. She lays awake worrying when he takes it into his head to take the bus downtown to watch the 9:00pm showing of The Incredible Hulk by himself and doesn't tell her where he's going. She gives him cooking lessons and worries about his addiction to bacon cheeseburgers.

I said no to that for myself. I wanted a child who would someday be able to live independently. And I am responsible for that choice. It was MY choice. As Jensboys said, it is not a reflection on the value of that baby girl or the unique joys and rewards that would come from being her parent. It is a reflection on me as a person, my values, my vision of what I wanted as a parent and, yes - what I was willing to do.

To claim that it "wasn't half the challenge" for the parents who eventually adopted that little girl than it would have been for me - that I faced challenges they didn't face - belittles their experiences as a family and their committment to their child. I have no idea what personal challenges they had to overcome, or what kind of support they get from their extended family. I DO know that they will face issues and struggles on her behalf that I will not face on behalf of my child. That they said yes where I said no.

I think the same is true of the decision about whether or not to adopt transracially. I do not think that every family that chooses not to adopt transracially is racist. There are other very valid reasons for that choice. But I think you cannot have this discussion - an it is an important discussion - and avoid acknowledging the issue of racism. My little boy comes from a county almost 200 miles from here. He was a healthy, full-term, beautiful baby boy in a legally low-risk adoption situation. The inescapable fact is that if Daniel were white, they would not have had to go so far away to find a family for him. I live in one of the most diverse cities in the country, and we were the only family at our agency willing to adopt an African American boy. In fact, we were told that because we were willing to take an African American boy, that was all we were considered for. It's hard to place them so they reserve willing families for those kids. Some parents have very good reasons for not adopting transracially. And for others, it IS racism. To argue otherwise is naive. And as another parent said, it hurts deeply to look at your child - a child you cherish - and to know that he is so devalued. The attitudes in society that create that reality is something our families face daily, and something our children will face all their lives. And, frankly, the decision IS about the parents - not the kids. It is about our values, our attitudes toward race, our personal circumstances, and yes - what we are willing to do on behalf of our children.

[KarynB]

And maybe we (as parents of black kids) are just sick of hurting for our kids because they aren't considered as worthy as others. And sick of trying to get others to see how amazing they are, and how anyone who would pass them over because of their skin colour is missing out. Big time.

I don't think anyone on here has said that all people who don't adopt transracially are racist. But, the reality is that black kids are often passed over in favour of CC kids - and to deny that there isn't any racism associated with this preference would be pretending it doesn't exist. And, for the sake of my kids, I won't do that. I'll question it for as long as I need to - in fact I am considering writing my MA thesis on the racism behind adoption based on costs differences. Pretending it doesn't exist is a disservice to all of our kids.

[Vogi2002]

Oak - wow. I feel the same way. My sister has cerebal palsy & I said no to the same....it felt like I was slapping my sister in the face. BUT in reality I was being 100% honest with myself. Am I defensive about this? No not really, thought it is still hard to talk about.

[KarynB]

Oak - beautifully said - thanks so much for sharing your story.

[SupaModel]

H's bmom is BR ( CC & AA) and bdad is AA.

I consider H to be AA.

Aclee - I will PM you if you really wanna hear my story but I am not posting that personal info on here.

I really don't enjoy having my words picked apart. Learned my lesson

[OakShannon]

Vog - I know what you mean. I felt so guilty the next time I was with my brother. And I had a very teary conversation with my mom about it. She understood, though.

[Fran27]

Oak, beautiful post!

Karyn, I understand where you are coming from. I just don't see it as them not being worthy. I just believe that they're worthy of living in a family where they will be 100% accepted. I think it would have broken my heart to adopt am H/AA/BR/Asian child and see them not welcome by everyone around me. Even now when my MIL says how lucky we are, I just can't help thinking 'lucky how? because we got beautiful CC babies, and not beautiful AA babies?'. Makes me cringe every single time. I think everyone in our family mentioned race when we said we considered adopting... it's saying a lot... although I believe it's more because none of them really got to know any AA people more than anything else...

About the cost difference... I read on another forum just last week that the reason for them is to encourage AA parents to adopt, and that because in average AA parents earn less than CC parents, there are more subsidies for those programs... Not sure how much of that is true, but it came from an AA person.

[oceanica]

Just wanted to stick my nose into this very sensitive topic. Fran, please don't feel personally attacked by this bec you seem like a very wonderful person and I'm not talking about you in this post.
And who could fault anyone for jumping on an opportunity for one of those adorable CC kids like the ones we see on these ads on adoption.com?
But the reality is that there is a lot of prejudice obviously, much more than I would've thought initially. Otherwise why, as someone said, are people open to any race "except aa"? Why is biracial OK but not full aa? Why do people feel they have to justify not adopting aa to themselves, as if adopting an aa baby is something as difficult as taking care of a special needs kid? Why does one have to either live in the middle of harlem or not adopt aa? (Can't we find diversity where we want to find diversity? Aren't aa kids going to have to learn to live with being a minority in general?)
I looked at a website for an adoption entity which shall remain nameless and found over 140 paps and only 4 of them were open to an aa child. Imagine being an aa emom looking for a family and this is what you see. How could you avoid thinking, "these people want a child so desperately and yet why don't they want my baby"? They seem like great people, well educated, nice, loving, caring. SOME of those people have to be prejudiced.
I talked to a woman at that organization and she tried to hook me in to paying their high fees by continually mentioning that she can get me an emom with blond hair and blue eyes. It was not said but somehow perceived by me that paying all that money would guarantee me a white drug-free baby quickly.
I am not trying to speak for anybody here, because whether someone is prejudiced or not is between that person and whoever they answer to and I have no business trying to determine anything about anyone. I am only responsible for me. I would never judge anybody based on limited information. But it is obvious that prejudice is out there and I have to be aware of it for my Athena so I can try to help her deal with it. And again, it does hurt knowing that there are people out there who would think that my beautiful little girl was not good enough for them because she was aa.