[HansenFamAZ]

I've wanted to post about this lately, and when I saw this specific post on a facilitators' website, I wanted to cry, kick, scream and/or shake someone.

Here is the post. I added the XXXX's:

"Full Caucasian Baby XXXXXX due XXXXX 3 rd in XXXXX

Expectant mom is Caucasian, 26 yrs old, blue eyes and brown hair. This is her 9th pregnancy. She is parenting her first child, she has had 1 miscarriage and she has placed the last 6 children for adoption. She notes the pregnancy to be a surprise and that she and her husband are not in a position to support any additional children. She is receiving prenatal care and will be covered under Medicaid. She denies the use of drugs, alcohol or smoking with this pregnancy. The expectant mom has placenta previa and has delivered early in the past. It is expectant she will deliver early with this pregnancy as well. The babies have been born early and all have been healthy with no concerns. There are no mental concerns.

The expectant father is 29 yrs old, Caucasian, blue eyes and brown hair. He is married to the expectant mom and they are still in a relationship. He is the biological father to all of her children to include the last 6 children they placed for adoption together. The expectant father notes he does smoke a pack of cigarettes per day but denies any drug or alcohol use. There are no mental concerns. He supports this adoption plan and will sign consents for placement.

The expectant couple would like a Married Traditional family with less than 2 children. They would like the family to be (of the) XXXXX (faith). They are not open to a family of XXXXXX faith. They would like the family to be open to contact during the pregnancy and meeting with them prior to placement. After placement – a semi-open adoption with pictures and letters thru the agency until the child is 18 yrs old. This couple has placed their other children through this same agency and while the agency notes this couple may be a little difficult at times, they always place without hesitation. An adoptive family should be aware of this going into this situation. The fees associated with this opportunity are $42,500 for everything except travel to XXXXXX. The expectant couple is asking to view profiles and speak with adoptive families prior to a match consideration."



I know I am totally assuming alot when I read this and will surely be flamed, but this situation seems like a baby mill with months of expenses being paid and an agency that is willing to support it.


Without even going into the motives behind the eparents, what is up with the agency? I know someone has to place this baby, but if you keep helping a couple 7 TIMES get months and months of living expenses, why would they not place more babies? And the fact that they acknowledge they are hard to work with? So you mean they ask for more and more financial help or do they take the acouple on an emotional rollercoaster but always place in the end? Why not have the couple contact you (the agency) a month before the due date and match a couple with them then? If they are not doing it for the money and always place, don't let them jerk someone around like that.

And why are the fees so high? No extra work is being gone to track down a bfather (or five possible bfathers) or medical bills to pay. She's surely got plenty of maturnity clothes. Since this is posted through an outsourced facilitator, the afamilies are contacting the agency, are not paying the agency to be "marketed" and have to pay the facilitator fees on top of the fee listed. (Why doesn't the agency pay it?)

I FEEL like I am looking at a classified ad for a BABY and can have it for the bargain price of $43K plus travel.


My SW told me a local AZ agency called one of her clients and said there was a baby born and was he was biracial, which was a "surprise". The pospective aparents that were at the hospital wanted a CC baby and did not want the baby. The agency knew this family had adopted a biracial baby through then before. The fees were $30K. Did they want the baby? They called their SW and asked her OPINION and she said, "I would pass. Sounds like you are buying a baby to me." It's like the agency was hell bent on making their money off this situation.


Or why are fees $25K for a "situation" when a bmom decides in the hospital she wants to place, has never contacted an agency before, and the hospital staff calls an agency they know. There was NO "work" taking care of the emom and afamily over the past few months. I get there was networking done so the hospital knew to call them, but it was LUCK! And they want to charge thier clients FULL price! AAAGH!


I guess it's time for me to figure out how to create a "national" agency that pays it's employees for the hard work they do working with emoms and afamilies, pays for advertising to get the name out there, but does not rock the aparents financially in the process.


Thanks for letting me vent, ramble, etc. Can you tell I'm thinking about child #5/adoption #3 and am irritated as to some of the options out there?

[susie_book]

That does sound disturbing--the fact that the agency has no ethical concerns re: a woman doing her seventh?? placement with them being one of the most troublesome. It seems like the solution is to work with one of the not-for-profit agencies, assuming that there's one in your area.

[Fran27]

Yup, I've heard of that happening before too...

About the full price when it's emergency placements, I think it's just easier for the agencies to do it that way - plus they lose a lot of money when matches fail, so it's probably just an average of what placements costs. Sometimes it costs more, sometimes less.

[sbaglio]

Some of these fees for adoption are absolutely crazy. I do wonder sometimes if the ghost of Georgia Tann (The Baby Thief - google it..) is not alive and well.

[4everwaiting]

Hansen Family AZ,

Flamed or not!

I couldn't agree with you more!

They should say "baby for sale" bidding will start at 42k... Those that can afford it will, those that can't afford it need not apply- they are left out and excluded.

A baby born situation should not cost $25-40k! The adoption agency have no work invested, only a phone line and someone to answer it...

I know why people wait for years to adopt or why some people quit after adopting one child. It could be that the adopting families simply can't afford the intial fees to adopt. Good families are being excluded for lack of funds.

I think that there should be an affordable cap fee on adoption period!

S

[mommieof2cuties]

I think we as a country have fully lost site of what ADOPTION really is! When I placed, I got nothing, but the trust and love that my daughter would be in a safe and loving home. We need to cap adoption and everything related to adoption because isn't it supposed to be about the baby. If couples have to pay all this money for children, how is that money working for the children? It goes to the agencys. attorneys. For example on our adoption, we went through DCF and paid the court 1,500 and a few other fees nothing went to an agency and nothing went to bmom, she was already getting everything for the state (sure we gave her stuff out of pocket, like lunch, dinner etc) I am hoping one day to start my own non profit in the next year in Florida for adoption because we need change, and yes it will take more than just me to make a change, but we need change. We need change fast. While working at DCF with single pregnant teens I really saw the need for change, money talks and they would work with whoever would offer the most. In the end it really needs to be about educating the pregnant moms, dads and finding the best home for the unborn or even born babies that need to be placed. Just my two cents.

Summer

[4everwaiting]

Summer,

I too am from Florida and as you know there are no caps in our state...

We have spoke to many agencies in FL -their rates are off the charts 30-40k+. Our budget is on the low end 10-15k we are almost laughed off the phone when calling around... The two agencies we are signed with are within our budget, but their waiting list is looong so that's why we are waiting 2 years and counting...

It's just wrong, there needs to be some type of reform in our state.

S

[Whirled_Peas]

I also live in AZ. The law here is a limit of $1,000 for living expenses unless a judge orders otherwise. That seems reasonable.

We won't be doing a high cost adoption. Can't afford it. However, I wonder how the expense cap law affects us regarding out of state adoptions that have high expenses added in.

When I was pregnant, I worked on Friday. Came home made/prepped a huge gourmet meal. On Saturday we entertained for Christmas all day long. I would have worked all week the following week except I gave birth on Sunday, Christmas morning. Now, if I could do that at 43, I wonder why so many pregnant women who are placing their babies need so many living expenses covered. I understand that most probably don't make professional wages and there will be some who have medical issues, but how would most of them be supporting themselves otherwise?

[paigeturner]

I don’t like government intervention into most aspects of our lives; however, I think this is one example of why this country needs radical adoption reform. I believe that adoption fees should not only be capped, but that they should be uniform. No one should make exorbitant profits off of a child. Attorney fees, medical costs and expenses should be capped at a uniform rate – for all children regardless of ethnicity.

In my opinion advertising like this should be banned and advertising from prospective adoptive parents should be included in that banning. Children should not be marketable commodities.

[Fran27]

Originally Posted by paigeturner

I don’t like government intervention into most aspects of our lives; however, I think this is one example of why this country needs radical adoption reform. I believe that adoption fees should not only be capped, but that they should be uniform. No one should make exorbitant profits off of a child. Attorney fees, medical costs and expenses should be capped at a uniform rate – for all children regardless of ethnicity.

In my opinion advertising like this should be banned and advertising from prospective adoptive parents should be included in that banning. Children should not be marketable commodities.

I agree 100%.

[mommieof2cuties]

Originally Posted by paigeturner

I don’t like government intervention into most aspects of our lives; however, I think this is one example of why this country needs radical adoption reform. I believe that adoption fees should not only be capped, but that they should be uniform. No one should make exorbitant profits off of a child. Attorney fees, medical costs and expenses should be capped at a uniform rate – for all children regardless of ethnicity.

In my opinion advertising like this should be banned and advertising from prospective adoptive parents should be included in that banning. Children should not be marketable commodities.

I agree 100% That is why I am going to start my own nonprofit with two other people who feel the same way I do and live in my state. We also want to educate and cover all areas not just adoption, but if you want to keep you're baby ways to get help without getting help and living off of the government! We will start out small but hopefully it will turn out the way I see it! Even if we can only help change just a few small amount of people all it takes is one person at a time....

Summer

[cbrink7]

The 7th placement!!! Not to sound too judgmental here (although I know I will because lets be honest this is "judgeable"), but these people are either exceptionally dense about birth control or there is something unethical going on! I have a feeling that it is the later. That is a good 7+ years of making adoption plans for babies, and then to have the agency still work with them after admitting that they are "difficult" (which who knows that that means!!!) but not to worry because "they always place" is just shady on their part. So basically PAP's are expected to deal with any type of difficult demand, but oh don't worry about it because after they are "difficult" they will sign the papers! I don't think so...I can not imagine being a part of an agency that would condone a practice this questionable.

[binkybear]

As long as people utilize these methods *on all sides* then there will be these kinds of practices. Sad

Hub and I did a ton of meetings and calls before picking our agency. We wound up on a few email lists because of this. The first time I opened up a "baby for sale" email I was floored. It was reminiscent of house hunting when realtors we contacted knew we were ready to move and had not yet signed on with one in particular yet. (We did nothing with this email other than send it onto our parents, talking about how CRAZY this kind of thing was...we're all so green and new to adoption in the first place, this was nuts to us to see and read!!) The following day another email is sent saying what a HUGE response there was, the baby was now in match process (fast huh!) and if we had been in the networking pool we would have known about the baby before an email went out....for only $_ _ _ _.-- you too can get first dibs. It was like an infomercial on tv where if we "act now babies are standing by" if we were willing to pay....pay the bparent expenses, the networking fees, plus the standard $30k that was this places norm. (fine print was clear in the tax credit hurrah and how FAST we could get a baby with fast no hassle finalization). IF that ghost is walking around I think I have her email address

I get that the Internet allows for more reach within the world, I get that. I get that it is a way for organizations (legit organizations) to reach a broader range and truly assist people with their needs. I just personally wish that sites where tactful, professional in a human way, and so many web sites did not read as Petfinder for people.

It's really sad, but again these things are only out there because someone is willing to utilize.

[Vogi2002]

I agree....


Shame on the people that actually use these people. Most people you ask do so because it's a shorter wait & they have the money. Sad thing is, I have heard HORROR stories about the way the birthmothers are treated on many of these "sites".

I don't call this adoption, it's black market baby selling, and we should all stand up as one and say it is NOT okay.

[Howdy]

Maybe the couple having the babies don't believe in birth control for religious reasons?