[Vogi2002]

I agree...I think it's borderline abusive to seperate twins...especially knowing twins & the bonds they have.

I would NEVER agree to take a child under these circumstance. Ever.

[nikkianni]

I saw a posted situation while we were waiting in which twins were being separated. It gives you a sick feeling.
How are they choosing which twin to keep and why? I want a girl but not a boy? I want a blond but not a brunette? I would be worried there were bigger issues with a situation like that. Not to mention the whole separating twins thing.
My brothers are twins and I have three sets of first cousins that are twins. I can't imagine any of them being forced apart. Even at birth it would be a cruel thing to do.

[MassachusettsMom]

Originally Posted by yehudit

Like how CC babies are more expensive than AA babies, who are more expensive than older children.

When we were still researching agencies, we went to a large, reputable agency in our area that charged $25,000+. Unless we were interested in an AA or multi-racial child, which could be had for as little as $8,000 thanks to "grants" that the agency offered as "incentives" for "difficult to place" children.

We also went to an information session at another adoption agency who, in response to a question from an attendee, told the 50+ people gathered that "foster care adoption is just for poor people."

[Tazer]

Originally Posted by nikkianni

I saw a posted situation while we were waiting in which twins were being separated. It gives you a sick feeling.
How are they choosing which twin to keep and why? I want a girl but not a boy? I want a blond but not a brunette? I would be worried there were bigger issues with a situation like that. Not to mention the whole separating twins thing.
My brothers are twins and I have three sets of first cousins that are twins. I can't imagine any of them being forced apart. Even at birth it would be a cruel thing to do.

IMO and speaking from a B-mom's point of view, when you start separating twins, taking home the blond child but not the red-head and pulling out when of the plan when it's discovered that the child is not CC but really bi-racial makes adoption more about the adults and less about the needs of the child.

This was not what I had in mind when I placed my child. Her adoption was closed but I've met several relatives in reunion and her Moms sister has openly shared that they were not open to a bi-racial child simply b/c her Mom wanted to pretend she'd given birth herself.

All of this makes me sick....Tracy

[MelissaFL01]

What goes on with some agencies is sickening!!

I am so glad we found an agency in Florida that is financially reasonable AND ethical. That seems to be a hard combo to find these day!

Where are the regulations? How can that other agency charge $40,000+ for an adoption?

That's emotional robbery in my opinion!

[aclee]

Originally Posted by MassachusettsMom

When we were still researching agencies, we went to a large, reputable agency in our area that charged $25,000+. Unless we were interested in an AA or multi-racial child, which could be had for as little as $8,000 thanks to "grants" that the agency offered as "incentives" for "difficult to place" children.

We also went to an information session at another adoption agency who, in response to a question from an attendee, told the 50+ people gathered that "foster care adoption is just for poor people."

PM me the name...we're local to you and we wanted a AA or multi racial child...if we could have adopted that inexpensive locally I want to know where

I am a firm believer that AA children are not discounted, but the agencies make the $$ on the CC infants because they know they can. I don't think any private agency take a loss on any adoption if they can help it, regardless of the race of the baby. If agencies can do an AA adoption for 8K, they could do all adoptions for 8K, but choose not to.

[aclee]

Originally Posted by nikkianni

So really DH and I paid our agency $4,000 for services that were never rendered. And apparently that's OK.

We paid 9K to the agency that matched us. Granted they did fly two women to the hospital that M gave birth at (more to guard her from trying to change her mind than support her...yuck!) but otherwise...they did nothing. Our attny in St. Louis finally went to bat with the agency to pay her some post partum expenses. They didn't want to because they typically negotiate the post partum expenses once the emom arrives in Utah. Gag me. I wonder how much negotiating is really done since she's trapped in a state 100's, of 1,000 of miles from home. Does she have much leverage? That 9K did not cover anything else for M as far as counseling etc, we paid all that additional so she had resources in St. Louis. M had called the agency 3 days before she delivered. They overnighted her agency information, so I guess that cost them too. Mostly, I think the 9K helps to pay for them to advertise all across the country so they can keep their drive through adoption agency full of emom's. *SIGH* the things we learn as we go through this process....

We got a nice blanket from them though. Funny enough to ME is looks and feels almost exactly like Ty's favorite blanket, Fluffy. But Ty wants nothing to do with that blanket...ever.

[Cjmeck]

Originally Posted by aclee

We paid 9K to the agency that matched us. Granted they did fly two women to the hospital that M gave birth at (more to guard her from trying to change her mind than support her...yuck!) but otherwise...they did nothing. Our attny in St. Louis finally went to bat with the agency to pay her some post partum expenses. They didn't want to because they typically negotiate the post partum expenses once the emom arrives in Utah. Gag me. I wonder how much negotiating is really done since she's trapped in a state 100's, of 1,000 of miles from home. Does she have much leverage? That 9K did not cover anything else for M as far as counseling etc, we paid all that additional so she had resources in St. Louis. M had called the agency 3 days before she delivered. They overnighted her agency information, so I guess that cost them too. Mostly, I think the 9K helps to pay for them to advertise all across the country so they can keep their drive through adoption agency full of emom's. *SIGH* the things we learn as we go through this process....

We got a nice blanket from them though. Funny enough to ME is looks and feels almost exactly like Ty's favorite blanket, Fluffy. But Ty wants nothing to do with that blanket...ever.

They made her fly to Utah to give birth? Am I understanding that correctly? Just asking and learning, that's all...

[nikkianni]

I will say this, our agency did not and will not charge anything but a flat fee for their services. It doesn't matter if the child being placed is white or purple or pink.
We did like that about them. Their flat fee is $7,500. That's it. If you want their services for an adoption, that's what you pay. Plus any birthparent expenses of course.
And we would've been happy to pay for counseling. I very gently suggested it to DD's birthmom, as our agency rep did not.
It's the fact that we were charged for this and DD's birthparents chose not to make use of it that gripes me.

[shadow riderer]

I usually stay in the adoptee and birth family forums. This thread has been jumping out at me for days now. I have just kept passing it by. I had a little extra time today and just couldn't resist any longer.

AS an adoptee, reunited with both sides of bio family, all I can say is, uhm, holy crap! I had no idea about some of the things I have read here. I mean, I kniew adoption wasn't all wonderful, but the first post in this thread was almost unbelievable. Nine pregnancies? Six placed for adoption? The thought that kept going through my mind was what would happen when, or if, thos placed children want to find their bio parents? I mean, just exactly how do you explain to your bio child that not only did you place that particular child, but 6 others? That add screams (IMO) we just didn't want to take care of you, so we thought we would let someone else do it for us...AKA...we really didn't want you, and you had no real value (as a person) to us. Again, holy crap, talk about adoptee issues. Can you imagine an adoptee finding this out? My birth mother may have some issues, but I know placing me was difficult for her. My Birth mother also aborted her fourth pregnancy, saying her husband forced her to do so. My bio sibs and I have some issues with this, because it's hard to understand how you "force" someone to have an abortion, but we were not in her shoes. I have done my best to understand my birth mother's pain, but for the birth mother mentioned in this add, not to mention the birth father? Say what you want, but this is just pathalogically sick...no mental issues? Get real.

if you were the adoptive parents of these placed children, what would you tell your child? Your Birth mother and father were just a baby mill? I mean, really, as the adoptive parents, how could you possibly put this in a good light for your child? I'm just wondering, if the adoptions of these placed children were simi open or open, how much more difficult would it be to explain reasons for the adoption? I'm sorry, but this just makes my head spin and blows my mind. Looking at it from an adoptee's point of view, I just feel sorry for those children. I just hope they were placed with fabulously loving adoptive parents.

[ChromaKelly]

OK, while we are sharing stories about crazy things we have heard -- I was reading on a nursing forum about a situation where a nurse said there was a family having twins and they were placing only one of the twins for adoption. No one in the family knew of this plan except the bmom and her husband. They had to be careful not to put both babies in the viewing room at the same time and provide a separate place for the adoptive family to room in. I can sort of understand the situation -- only had planned to have one baby and have two -- what to do, but how do you explain that to the children? You have a twin somewhere? I grew up near a family who supposedly had two adopted children that were both one half of a set of twins. Their parents were crazy (I mean really) so we always thought they made it up. But maybe not?

WTH?!?!! As a mother of twins, (and it's their birthday!) I just can't imagine. Ugh, I am so disgusted.

Along the same lines of this thread, I can't stand it when situation posts describe the e-mom and/or e-dad as "attractive". Who cares? Like we are only looking for attractive e-parents?

[aclee]

Originally Posted by Cjmeck

They made her fly to Utah to give birth? Am I understanding that correctly? Just asking and learning, that's all...

That is what most of the Utah agencies do. They got her a plane ticket, but she didn't make it...THANK GOD! Had she made it to Utah, we wouldn't have considered the situation. We only considered situations with Utah agencies where the emom didn't make it to Utah (they consider these situations to be less "successful" and even would call sounding bummed out and say they "failed" to get her to Utah on time) If you are up for learning, I would highly suggest researching the Utah agencies and why they are considered by MANY to be unethical. I wish I had more knowledge when I was going through my journey. We did the best we could to make sure our adoption was ethical. There is another thread on here about Utah agencies if you search for it.

[lisa in venice]

Originally Posted by shadow riderer

I usually stay in the adoptee and birth family forums. This thread has been jumping out at me for days now. I have just kept passing it by. I had a little extra time today and just couldn't resist any longer.

AS an adoptee, reunited with both sides of bio family, all I can say is, uhm, holy crap! I had no idea about some of the things I have read here. I mean, I kniew adoption wasn't all wonderful, but the first post in this thread was almost unbelievable. Nine pregnancies? Six placed for adoption? The thought that kept going through my mind was what would happen when, or if, thos placed children want to find their bio parents? I mean, just exactly how do you explain to your bio child that not only did you place that particular child, but 6 others? That add screams (IMO) we just didn't want to take care of you, so we thought we would let someone else do it for us...AKA...we really didn't want you, and you had no real value (as a person) to us. Again, holy crap, talk about adoptee issues. Can you imagine an adoptee finding this out? My birth mother may have some issues, but I know placing me was difficult for her. My Birth mother also aborted her fourth pregnancy, saying her husband forced her to do so. My bio sibs and I have some issues with this, because it's hard to understand how you "force" someone to have an abortion, but we were not in her shoes. I have done my best to understand my birth mother's pain, but for the birth mother mentioned in this add, not to mention the birth father? Say what you want, but this is just pathalogically sick...no mental issues? Get real.

if you were the adoptive parents of these placed children, what would you tell your child? Your Birth mother and father were just a baby mill?

The two situations I know of with birth moms who kept popping out baby after baby and placing them were one a women who was clearly developmentally challenged and a HIGHLY unethical Facilitator (who was driven out of business thank goodness and my youngest who like many children born to women with serious drug problems was one of several children placed for adoption. Good people who suffer with serious drug addiction often don't do use normal logic. It's not that they don't love these babies, it is just that they can't stay off the drugs long enough to be sexually responsible and placing is the only reasonable and responsible thing to do.

[loveajax]

My Dh is an adoptee and, to be honest, he was a little "taken aback" when he found out his birth mom parented three kids, placed his sis for adopt, him for adopt, and then had and parented another kid. But at least it seems clear the placements were not as a way to make money for his birth mom! Zoinks.

We were "matched" with a e mom who had placed at least two (maybe 3? I forget) other kids for adoption. It involved paying expenses and DH and I just were really uncomfortable with it (and of course, because he as an adoptee knew it would be hard to explain the "whys" in a situation like this, as you say Shadow). I will say that PAPs are told about "red flags" and if an emom has placed before, it's generally seen as less of a "red flag" (in terms of not having a failed match). I know how terrified I was when we were going thru the process so I can understand people wanting to minimize risks, but this just screams yuck.

Although there were many things I hated about our agency (including the gynormous fees), I did like that A) there was no direct expenses paid to eparents from PAPs; B) the PAPs only paid post placement; C) there were no "different" prices for "different" kids (though to be honest, like Aclee, if I could adopt again for 8K, I would prob do it). The thing I think people forget in agency adoptions is that it is not necessarily tied to "YOUR" expenses. If you think about it, if there are emoms that get counseling, etc., and never place, those costs need to be "spread" acorss all PAPs. I honestly don't think at least at our nonprofit agency anyone was "getting rich." But it is really frustrating. We had $3500 allocated to our adoption atty thru the agency and she decided she couldn't be present for our finalization!

[lovemy2boys]

Originally Posted by loveajax

My Dh is an adoptee and, to be honest, he was a little "taken aback" when he found out his birth mom parented three kids, placed his sis for adopt, him for adopt, and then had and parented another kid. But at least it seems clear the placements were not as a way to make money for his birth mom! Zoinks.

We were "matched" with a e mom who had placed at least two (maybe 3? I forget) other kids for adoption. It involved paying expenses and DH and I just were really uncomfortable with it (and of course, because he as an adoptee knew it would be hard to explain the "whys" in a situation like this, as you say Shadow). I will say that PAPs are told about "red flags" and if an emom has placed before, it's generally seen as less of a "red flag" (in terms of not having a failed match). I know how terrified I was when we were going thru the process so I can understand people wanting to minimize risks, but this just screams yuck.

Although there were many things I hated about our agency (including the gynormous fees), I did like that A) there was no direct expenses paid to eparents from PAPs; B) the PAPs only paid post placement; C) there were no "different" prices for "different" kids (though to be honest, like Aclee, if I could adopt again for 8K, I would prob do it). The thing I think people forget in agency adoptions is that it is not necessarily tied to "YOUR" expenses. If you think about it, if there are emoms that get counseling, etc., and never place, those costs need to be "spread" acorss all PAPs. I honestly don't think at least at our nonprofit agency anyone was "getting rich." But it is really frustrating. We had $3500 allocated to our adoption atty thru the agency and she decided she couldn't be present for our finalization!

Well, where in the world have YOU been????