[lovemy2boys]

Originally Posted by katie52

In hindsight, I think we have sometimes asked too much of our children, in expecting them to process and understand, things that not even grown ups, have successfully resolved. I know many people here have said basicly " YES, it is really really difficult, and painful
and it can be confusing, but children need to understand that if you work really hard you can overcome anything" DO THEY? I mean do they have to be put through all this at their tender young ages, when they have so many other things to focus on? Or are we being selfish ourselves and want them to just deal with it, get over it, it is what it is. Sometimes I wonder.

I think you make a very good point here...very good.

I know that when we had/have problems with "D" or "C" the kids are kept totally out of it...Totally. We don't even discuss it unless the kids are away from the house. They don't need to deal with adult issues. When I speak of working through it, I mean adults only...

The boys are 4 1/2 and 6 1/2...and we've yet to get to a point where they ask "serious" questions. We've basically told the story of how they came to live with us, and they're satisfied with that, thus far.

When we get together with "D" or "C", it's a pretty relaxing atmosphere - hanging out at the park, Chuck E Cheese, one of our houses, etc. Any hardships they are feeling, they do it in private.

Just wanted to say that I see where you're coming from on that front.

[Jensboys]

Originally Posted by bromanchik

As parents, whether by adoption or birth, it is our job to help kids manage and process their emotions. I think the best example of this is my friend Jen. Please read her blog. There are a bunch of incredibly moving examples of stellar adoptive parenting that chronical her one son's reunion in July. I am giving you the link to her take on the flip side with her other son.
A Nickel's Worth of Common Sense: Reunion Thoughts: Supporting the One Who Chooses Not To

Just wanted to say its been tough at times, easy at others. Crazy a bunch of other times. Some days I feel like this and others like

Welcome to real life I guess

Jen

PS Brenda is the WISEST person I know when it comes to open adoptions. Listen to ANYTHING she has to say!

[abresie]

I'm new to the site, and I wanted to say how much I needed to read this discussion. We are currently waiting to be matched in a domestic adoption, and I've read all of the books on OA but I've felt that I didn't really understand exactly what is expected. I was relieved to see the consensus that there is not exact definition that every relationship is different.
I have had problems telling friends about OA because they have all brought up the confusion issue or asked if I really wanted to "share" my baby. It's interesting, the people who are the most against the idea are my friends who were adopted. I guess most people prefer what they are used to.
Sorry this is rambling, I jsut wanted to express my gratitude to all of the people who shared their stories. Your experience is appreciated.

[Vogi2002]

abr - If it makes you feel any better every person that is adopted that I have spoken to (face to face) has told me what a GOOD thing we are doing by having open adoption...one of them are in the middle of a reunion.

Not saying it's the only way to go...but i have heard both sides!!

[bromanchik]

Originally Posted by katie52

So it is in fact, because of the child, living with the aparents, that the bmom is in such deep pain. Really no way around that .

I don't grieve the man my son is (he's 23) because he was raised by his adoptive parents. I grieve the man my son did not become because he was not raised by me. My pain has nothing to do with him. It has everything to do with the decisions I made. I can wholeheartedly love and celebrate my son as the man he was raised to be and still grieve the man that was not raised by me. Many adoptees talk about this as well. This kind of split.

Originally Posted by katie52

In hindsight, I think we have sometimes asked too much of our children, in expecting them to process and understand, things that not even grown ups, have successfully resolved. I know many people here have said basicly " YES, it is really really difficult, and painful
and it can be confusing, but children need to understand that if you work really hard you can overcome anything" DO THEY?

Children are only as confused as the adults around them. If things are really painful and complicated for the adults they have a responsibility to process it themselves before they talk to the kids about it. If they are uncertain of how to answer a child's question, if it is something they are confused about, they need to be honest about that.
My son does not take responsibility for my pain. He never has because he has not been made to feel that he, the person he is now, is the source of it. That's not to say he hasn't struggled with adoption issues. He fully understood his own losses in adoption at the age of 10. And he was able to grieve them and integrate them into his life long before those I see struggling with reunion have.

[feelingreyt]

Originally Posted by bromanchik

Children are only as confused as the adults around them. If things are really painful and complicated for the adults they have a responsibility to process it themselves before they talk to the kids about it. If they are uncertain of how to answer a child's question, if it is something they are confused about, they need to be honest about that.

I agree with this statement to a certain extent. If a parent is having confusing, complicated and mixed feelings about something, then yes, the children will also be confused. However, a child can not be expected to process information like an adult can. They need help learning how to process information and how to verbally put their feelings into words. I can not expect my 3 yr old to understand why is brother's bmom could not keep him yet chose not to have her daughter's adopted. I can explain to him, on his level, various reasons why she couldn't. I am not confused by her decisions. But in a 3 yr old's mind, mommy and daddy love us all the same. If they can take care of one, two or even three children, then surely they can love and take care of another. It will be years, IMO, before he really understands all of that, and he's not even the one adopted! I can only imagine how his little brother, who is adopted, will process it all.
Some things are just too complicated for their young minds to comprehend. That does not mean that the adults are confused. Children are just that children. We should not expect them to not have confusion or not be able to handle certain situations. And we shouldn't blame the parents by saying that the parents must be confused. Just my thoughts anyway.....

[belleinblue1978]

Greyt,

Not to speak for Brenda, but I think what she is saying is that keeping things age appropriate and reinforcing your roles in children's lives will help them be comfortable about it. If the adults can't get together on their roles, then the children surely won't understand, I think that is what Brenda is getting at.

BTW, as long you as explain that X's firstmom and firstdad loved them so much they made this choice, kids believe that. I did, even when I knew that my firstmom parented FIVE children before me and then placed me, I still knew she made her choice out of love for me. As long as you aren't confused, they won't be. Kids get ALOT more than we give them credit for.

[loveajax]

Leigh,

To get back to your original question.....

I don't really believe OA is "misrepresented" here, but I do think (myself included) people tend to post when there are problems, etc. and in that sense it can seem like a "bigger deal" than it is.

Although we have had some bumps in the road, our OA is pretty "chill." We care for and respect DD's birth family and they care for and respect us as well (and of course love DD dearly). I am really, really grateful that they are who/how they are (do I have issues sometimes? sure....I have issues with my mom, my husband, and esp. my MIL! all the time).

I don't feel any "confusion" or "insecurity" as a result of OA. (I think prob most a parents in OA know when they have visits who "mom and dad" are...if anything, visits are very "affirming" to me, but that's obviously not the point of them). I do sometimes tend to "absorb" the pain of DD's birth mom and I am working hard on that.

I think hearing Katie's and Brenda's perspectives are great. They are two women who have long and personal experiences with OA. That's all anyone can really share...their own personal experiences, which inevitably are going to be different from anyone else's and they both give me (at least) food for thought.

[mdesi]

Greyt is 100% correct about how young children's minds process things. Their frontal lobe is still developing, and will continue to develop until early adulthood. People tend to place adult logic on their childhood memories, which often leads to trouble with expectations of what children can handle.

For those of you that are trying to explain this age appropriately, I would suggest that you also ask your children, "What are your questions about this?" Give them time to think of some. By asking this this way, you are giving your children permission to express their confusions to you at their levels. What seems to be an age appropriate explanation may not be at all b/c of our adult logic. No judgements here, this is a common adult misunderstanding about children's cognitive processing.

[manni28]

I agree with this statement to a certain extent. If a parent is having confusing, complicated and mixed feelings about something, then yes, the children will also be confused. However, a child can not be expected to process information like an adult can. They need help learning how to process information and how to verbally put their feelings into words. I can not expect my 3 yr old to understand why is brother's bmom could not keep him yet chose not to have her daughter's adopted. I can explain to him, on his level, various reasons why she couldn't. I am not confused by her decisions. But in a 3 yr old's mind, mommy and daddy love us all the same. If they can take care of one, two or even three children, then surely they can love and take care of another. It will be years, IMO, before he really understands all of that, and he's not even the one adopted! I can only imagine how his little brother, who is adopted, will process it all.
Some things are just too complicated for their young minds to comprehend. That does not mean that the adults are confused. Children are just that children. We should not expect them to not have confusion or not be able to handle certain situations. And we shouldn't blame the parents by saying that the parents must be confused. Just my thoughts anyway.....

Feelingreyt:

I agree with this statement, something’s ARE too complicated for a child to understand. I have a semi-open adoption. One of the reasons why I and hubby chose semi is because our son's bmom has an older child she is parenting. We didn't know how HE would feel knowing bmom kept the first born but not him. We didn't want to risk the consequences of him being emotionally or physiologically damaged by this. I know I'll be flamed but, as a parent, it is my duty to make sure MY child has a healthy self-esteem about himself and being adopted. That’s why we all agreed to wait until he is an older, mature teen who can see WHY his adoption took place. Not think he was the reason WHY.

There’s a Huge difference when there are other variables in the adoption, imo.


Manni28

[feelingreyt]

Originally Posted by belleinblue1978

BTW, as long you as explain that X's firstmom and firstdad loved them so much they made this choice, kids believe that. I did, even when I knew that my firstmom parented FIVE children before me and then placed me, I still knew she made her choice out of love for me. As long as you aren't confused, they won't be. Kids get ALOT more than we give them credit for.

I agree with you Belle that children will believe that their first parents loves them when we tell them that they do. But, just because they "believe" this to be true, does not mean that they fully comprehend it all at a young(or even older) age. KWIM? I'm sure some young children are not confused at all, but I would bet that is the exception rather than the rule.

mdesi,
Your suggestion is great advice!

manni,
Your right, our children needing to realize and understand that they are not the "reason" they were given up is very important.
I do think though that that can be accomplished through all types of adoption. Not that you were saying it couldn't, I just wanted to add that.

[feelingreyt]

As for the orginal question:
I think OA is sometimes misrepresented on the forums and in every day life.
Every situation is so different that alot times people really don't even know how to "classify" their adoption. KWIM?
This forum has taught me so much. When we adopted our son I only new the general basics regarding the different types of adoption. We knew our relative adoption would be completely open, yet to be honest, his first mom, my dh and I never sat down to talk specifics. We are still kinda treading the water so to speak. In our defense, we were placed very unexpectedly. We were not looking to adopt. We recieved a phone call one day asking if we could take care of him while his mom was in jail(he was 4 days old, picked him up at 5 days old). When bmom was released about 45 days later she did not want him back. She informed us she had always wanted to give him up and that she had no bond with at all. We, on the other hand, were completely and utterly in love with him. So we hired a lawyer, she contiued with her counseling, VTPR'd and Bdad was terminated through the courts. It all happened so fast.
Without these boards I would have been totally lost. There have been alot of differences of opinion regarding what OA means, but I just take what I feel is right in my heart and go from there.
The one thing that really confuses me about this forum is how quick some poeple are to judge other's decisions regarding what type of adoption they have chosen and how that contact or lack there of is carried out.
BYTW, this is an awsome thread!

[thanksgivingmom]

I think that sometimes OA seems misrepresented by people that are not in OA's (although those in them can too...I'll get to that ). Often I hear these absolute difinitive statements about OA's made from people that are learning about them or not interested in them, etc. (Not saying those people can't participate in this or in any discussion - not at all - just that I can't say what it's like to adopt a child or to be in a closed adoption because I haven't lived that, and certianly if I represented those ideas I could easily be misrepresenting them, kwim?)

I think that those of us in OA's don't misrepresent what OUR OA is to us. They are our stories and are true to us. The problem becomes when stories, super positive or super negative, are used as an explanation for ALL OA's.

The way I "represent" OA may fluctuate depending on where I am on any given day. The past month has been hard for me and I can see that reflected in my opinions and experiences. Today I got an email (finally) making plans for an upcoming visit. So TODAY OA is great and easy and is unicorns and rainbows. Today OA is visits and happy times.

A week ago? OA was hard work and sometimes disappointments but you push through it for your kids.

Are both of my experiences true? Yes. Are they both representations of OA? Of course.

They only become a misrepresentation when I say "All OA's are like this......" or "X is impossible in an OA no matter what because....."

That's what I think we all need to be aware of in our own writing and aware of in what others are saying as well.

[katie52]

[quote=bromanchik]I don't grieve the man my son is (he's 23) because he was raised by his adoptive parents. I grieve the man my son did not become because he was not raised by me. My pain has nothing to do with him. It has everything to do with the decisions I made. I can wholeheartedly love and celebrate my son as the man he was raised to be and still grieve the man that was not raised by me. Many adoptees talk about this as well. This kind of split.
---------------------------------------------------------

I can appreciate this difference. And it is a definite split. But it does seem kind of esoteric in a way. What I mean is that , when you speak of your 23 yr old understanding that, of course he would. I was speaking more about what happens to 6, 7, 8, yr olds.

I realize that many young kids can process this stuff. And many are in very cut and dry circumstances that are easy to explain and accept. But that is not always the case. ++++++++++++++++++++++++



Children are only as confused as the adults around them. If things are really painful and complicated for the adults they have a responsibility to process it themselves before they talk to the kids about it. If they are uncertain of how to answer a child's question, if it is something they are confused about, they need to be honest about that.------------------------------------


"Children are only confused as the adults around them."

EXACTLY. And when you KNOW that a certain bfamily member is extremely confused, and often troubled,
then it is harder to explain it all to a youngster.

In one of our OA's, the bgrandma often made wild extravagant promises, which were never kept.
After the first few sad letdowns I would try and remind them before each visit, NOT to take the things she said too seriously. When I asked her not to do that to them, she said,' AW, Who cares, kids dont remember nothing
anyway.'
It was sad and difficult for them to have to deal with that, on top of the fact that she said horrible, spiteful things about her daughter, their bmom. So I was forced to tell them that she was not telling the truth.

So what does that say, when you are making a big deal about meeting with the little ones bfamily, but you have to warn the kids NOT to believe anything grandma says.
THAT IS CONFUSING. Now I was not confused. I knew the family dynamics. But it was still confusing for the kids because I could not explain the full difficult circumstances. And sometimes, the older half sister, would end the visit by crying, and saying she wanted to be adopted too, and to come live with us. One time she hid when it was time to go, and then our older kid got really upset, because he thought she was going to stay with us. When grandma finally found her, she said, "FINE, stay here, it's OK with me." and she went out the front door, just left the kid, who began dancing and running around the house laughing. We took her home later that night --noone home. Next day---noone home.
Finally , the 3rd day, caught an uncle at home.

So you can say for sure, a child is only as confused as the adults around him. And when the adults around him do unexpected, uncalled for things, confusion reigns.

If they were STRANGERS, I could have explained that some people say untruthful things, some people do unkind things. BUT this being their time to get to know their bfamily, how fair is it for me to point out those things? Sure, as people have said, things are difficult, but can be worked through. But I really felt I was doing our kids a disservice at that point by putting them through such drama each time we tried to have a nice visit.++++++++++++++++++++++



My son does not take responsibility for my pain. He never has because he has not been made to feel that he, the person he is now, is the source of it. That's not to say he hasn't struggled with adoption issues. He fully understood his own losses in adoption at the age of 10. And he was able to grieve them and integrate them into his life long before those I see struggling with reunion have.[-----------------------------------------

Luckily for your son, you are an honest and reasonable person.
I have no doubt that your compassion and intelligence helped him through.
I only wish we had been blessed with such a situation.
I think in such cases OA is by far the best option.

[katie52]

Originally Posted by thanksgivingmom

I think that sometimes OA seems misrepresented by people that are not in OA's (although those in them can too...I'll get to that ). Often I hear these absolute difinitive statements about OA's made from people that are learning about them or not interested in them, etc. (Not saying those people can't participate in this or in any discussion - not at all - just that I can't say what it's like to adopt a child or to be in a closed adoption because I haven't lived that, and certianly if I represented those ideas I could easily be misrepresenting them, kwim?)

I think that those of us in OA's don't misrepresent what OUR OA is to us. They are our stories and are true to us. The problem becomes when stories, super positive or super negative, are used as an explanation for ALL OA's.-----------------------------

EXACTLY. All we can really KNOW is what we have experienced. We can hear other things, and talk about other things, but what we have lived will resonate and kind of take over, unfortunately. lol++++++++++++

The way I "represent" OA may fluctuate depending on where I am on any given day. The past month has been hard for me and I can see that reflected in my opinions and experiences. Today I got an email (finally) making plans for an upcoming visit. So TODAY OA is great and easy and is unicorns and rainbows. Today OA is visits and happy times.-------------------------

CONGRATULATIONS. I am happy for you. I was wondering if you had heard anything since I saw your last sad posts ;-[

+++++++++++++++++++++

A week ago? OA was hard work and sometimes disappointments but you push through it for your kids.

Are both of my experiences true? Yes. Are they both representations of OA? Of course.

They only become a misrepresentation when I say "All OA's are like this......" or "X is impossible in an OA no matter what because....."

That's what I think we all need to be aware of in our own writing and aware of in what others are saying as well.

Gotcha. I am guilty ++++++++++++++++