[SupaModel]

Originally Posted by Yash

I am not bitter. I'm a very happy person, who posted my opinion on how I disagreed with Fran and others who think it's okay to only adopt a child of the same race. You don't have to agree with me, but it doesn't make the fact any less true.

It's one thing to disagree. The problem is your blanket statement branding people racist.

Your views are so ridiculous it boarderlines comedy!

[Yash]

[quote=Fran27]Wow Yash, so you think it's ok to willingly bring up a child in an hostile environment? That is really sad.
So it's okay to bring up a child of the same race in a hostile environment? Or would it not be hostile because the child isn't another race? Is the environment hostile because people within the environment say racist things as the OP said about her family? If so, then why would you want to expose any child regardless of race to that environment.

[Fran27]

Well, there's a difference between having a CC child hearing people say something about AA people, and an AA child hearing people saying something about him. It doesn't make the first case right, but it's not going to make the child feel unwanted, out of place, and destroy his self-esteem.

I have to say that it's totally hypocrit and quite funny to say that people don't have to agree with you but that you're right anyway. Talk about being narrow-minded.

[Yash]

[quote=Fran27]Well, there's a difference between having a CC child hearing people say something about AA people, and an AA child hearing people saying something about him. It doesn't make the first case right, but it's not going to make the child feel unwanted, out of place, and destroy his self-esteem.
No, but it may turn that CC child into a CC adult who will say racist things and do things towards a black person. Either way both children are being damaged psychologically.

[myccg2004]

noone said it was okay or not okay to only adopt someone of the same race. You're the one saying it is not okay. And while that is your opionion and you are certainly entitled to it, it does not give you the right to call those who don't agree with you racists.

[binkybear]

Originally Posted by Yash

It seems as a society, we have created a world full of grey instead of a world where things are either wrong or right, black or white. And in such a world, when the truth is spoken it is seen as judgement or criticism.

That's your take on things and you're entitled to it. Just as I am entitled to my truths.

There's a piece of scripture that roughly states we should show mercy when judging others or no mercy will be shown when we are judged.

It is possible to make personal points without condeming persons to a label or name that does not fit.

[SuzBerg]

Friendly Reminder.....

People have great differences of opinion on this subject BUT respectful discussion is expected. You don't have to agree with everyone but you need to disagree respectfully. Let's get back on topic to the OP's original post.

Thanks!

[Vogi2002]

Originally Posted by Fran27

Well, there's a difference between having a CC child hearing people say something about AA people, and an AA child hearing people saying something about him. It doesn't make the first case right, but it's not going to make the child feel unwanted, out of place, and destroy his self-esteem.

It may be differnent but it's the same amount of horrible. It's still going to hurt the child just as bad, cc or aa to hear another race be put down and such a spiteful form of racism. Would you allow your child to go to a KKK meeting? I can tell you this is just as bad as being around a family member as they degrade the AA race...say the N word, and generally have a lesser thought of other races...no being around the family is WORSE because these are people the child trusts. So no matter if the child is CC, AA, Hispanic, or whatever, the child will still lose.

I can imagine the want to adopt a child of your race. I don't believe this makes you a racist. However...I believe there should be two options only...

- My race
- All other races (for example if you are CC, this would include CC, AA, BR, Hispanic, Asian, etc; if your a biracial couple it would include all other races including biracial).

To specifically not include certain races, but include all others...is a form of racism to me (unless there is a specific very very good reason). If you are okay with your child being of a totally different culture...why does the exact culture matter??

I'm not sure how ending up with a child that is a different race than you would make that child have a miserable life...or grow up in a world of hate. My goodness...obviously there might be some racism there if you would make your child's life miserable if they didn't match you.


Food for thought: If your family isn't okay with certain races or a child being different...how will they be okay with the child being adopted? They are going to be different...with different genetics. That's what would worry me personally.


---These are all my personal opinions & I stand by them. I understand others don't agree. I respect it...but still disagree with you. LOL

[bromanchik]

The thing is that some people, who are not racist, are not in a position to adopt transracially because they are living in a situation that is not best for the child. Talk to transracial adoptees, many will tell you how difficult it was to grow up in all white communities... maybe not as a young child, but as a teen-ager. Dating becomes an issue, whether we like it or not. Many talk about straddling two worlds, not fully accepted by either race.

I think adopting transracially, to show how "Christian" you are, is not what Christ had in mind. Providing for a child of color, becoming a transracial family, is about more than seeing a child in need and bringing them into our home. It is about being able to provide for all of their needs, to be loved and accepted not only by us but by our families and our communities. To not take that into consideration is actually harming the child.

BTW, I do not get the difference between adopting biracially or adopting an AA child. I know many, actually most BR people I know are identified as AA. Some are darker and have more pronounced features than some of my AA friends. I guess it depends why people are adopting BR. If they are looking for someone who is going to look "less AA" they really are barking up the wrong tree.

I actually know of a couple that brought their BR baby back to the agency because he "was darker than they thought he'd be. UGH!!!

[Cjmeck]

Originally Posted by Yash

I understand not all people are Christians so to those who aren't my statement seems judgemental, harsh. But maybe you think that because the Christians in your see, say they love Jesus in one breath and in the next breath say how they can't and/or won't adopt a child of a different race.

The biggest cause of atheism are Christians, who acknowledge God with their mouth and then walk out the door and do something else.

I'm certain there are racists among adoptive parents who choose only to adopt CC children. I say that because since becoming a parent to my BR daughter, I've learned there is much more racism in this world than I previously thought. BUT, I'm also certain that there are other AP who COULD and WOULD love a child of ANY COLOR, and they WANT a child so badly BUT they put aside their own desires to think for a moment about the BEST INTERESTS of the child. And NOT ALL AA children are best served in just ANY home. It takes something extra within a person to be a good transracial parent. It doesn't mean these people who choose CC only are lacking in love for an AA child but rather, they see something in their environment perhaps that would be detrimental to the well-being of an AA child. To call these people who have probably struggled deeply with this issue RACIST is very ignorant on your part. I'm not continuing this agrument today because I expect to change your viewpoint. Your ideals are very much like that of a ignorant racist; you only see what right in front of you and don't consider there are more depths to a person. I am only commenting because I hate when people are labeled one way or another; I hate stereotypes. I would think ANY parent of a non-white child would feel that way.

[Fran27]

Originally Posted by Vogi2002

It may be differnent but it's the same amount of horrible. It's still going to hurt the child just as bad, cc or aa to hear another race be put down and such a spiteful form of racism. Would you allow your child to go to a KKK meeting? I can tell you this is just as bad as being around a family member as they degrade the AA race...say the N word, and generally have a lesser thought of other races...no being around the family is WORSE because these are people the child trusts. So no matter if the child is CC, AA, Hispanic, or whatever, the child will still lose.

I agree, the damage is just not quite the same. Maybe it's just because of the relationship I had with my grandparents, but I really always took what they said with a piece of salt. I'd say, the kids will learn about racism eventually, so they'll need to be educated at some point or another... I can see how a kid would grow up racist with racist parents, but if the parents are not racist and are willing to educate the child about it, as you probably wouldn't spend much time around those people anyway, it's not quite the same. It's a different story if the child is feeling unwelcome, ignored or despised because of his race... At least for a CC child it won't be personal.

I can imagine the want to adopt a child of your race. I don't believe this makes you a racist. However...I believe there should be two options only...

- My race
- All other races (for example if you are CC, this would include CC, AA, BR, Hispanic, Asian, etc; if your a biracial couple it would include all other races including biracial).

To specifically not include certain races, but include all others...is a form of racism to me (unless there is a specific very very good reason). If you are okay with your child being of a totally different culture...why does the exact culture matter??

I agree, in most circumstances... but in some cases, if you're in a latino communauty, or have lots of AA friends, it might be better for the child to be of that race.

I'm not sure how ending up with a child that is a different race than you would make that child have a miserable life...or grow up in a world of hate. My goodness...obviously there might be some racism there if you would make your child's life miserable if they didn't match you.

Got a good example for you. My mom used to have a coworker who adopted two north African kids (they're in France). The guy made some ok money, and lived in a pretty white area. Well, once the kids were teenagers, almost every time they were outside... they got arrested by the cops. Frankly, the kids grew up resenting their adoption, and wished their parents had left them in Africa. Ouch.

It's an extreme example, but it shows how intolerant the world is around us... I do not believe a parents' love is always enough, I was excluded as a kid and I would never put a child in an obvious position to feel the same way. You can tell your child that race doesn't matter, and all those people are ignorant, racist and uneducated... but it doesn't change the fact that your kid might feel unwelcome everywhere he goes... and that applies to family too.

Food for thought: If your family isn't okay with certain races or a child being different...how will they be okay with the child being adopted? They are going to be different...with different genetics. That's what would worry me personally.

I think for lots of people it's really just a question of skin color.

I guess my point is that I don't believe that the parents are the only factor that should decide if it's a good idea to adopt transracially or not. I know a lot of people disagree, it's just my own experience that growing up with grandparents that don't care about you so much and being excluded in school can affect a child for years... and I would not adopt any child knowing it's likely to happen to them. I know it might happen anyway, and I'll do what needs to be done, but I'd rather not be in the place to tell my kids that all the people they know are rude or ignorant, just because I didn't look carefully around me before adopting. I want my kids to have a chance at a social life.

I thought parenting meant giving your kids the best chance at happiness that you can? Or did I read the book wrong, that showing everyone that you're not racist is more important? I personally don't think so.

Thankfully though most communities are not that way, but there are still some. And moving is not always an option.

[nikkianni]

OK. I wasn't going to do this, but I just can't help myself.
DH and I are Christians. And yes, Yash, we ARE. When we started our adoption journey, we took a long hard look around us. Our county is 96% CC. The school district we were in at the time: 100% CC and I went there so I know how they treat those of other races. No way. No private schools here at all.
DH's family was iffy about the whole adoption thing and we were very, very worried about what they would do or say if we brought home a child of a different race. Now, if that had been the only issue, we could have dealt with it. But clearly it wasn't.
An earlier poster mentioned the views of AA, BR adoptees. Let me give you one. My closest friend is AA/CC and is adopted. She grew up in our community like I did. And when we decided to adopt, she hugged me, then looked at me and very seriously asked me not to bring an AA or BR child home. She's dealt with being "half-black" in a community that isn't all her life. And she's dealt with it with incredible grace.
In high school, one boy broke up with her because his parents just wouldn't allow him to date someone like her. I'm not kidding here. And it wasn't an isolated thing. So when she said that to me, I took it to heart.
I'll admit, I was OK with a child of any color. But that doesn't mean that it would have been best for that child. And it is about the child. Not about how Christian I'm trying to prove myself to be or how unracist I am.
Like someone else said, our adoption wasn't about being Christian. It was about being parents. DD's not my badge of Christianity, she's my child.
And I agree, bad Christians make new atheists. But I have to say, I'm not feeling like a bad Christian here. And up until now I've never been called one.

Second thought: If I am CC and I marry a CC man, I would expect to have CC children. And vice versa with any race.
And that's OK. That's to be expected.
But if I'm CC and I marry a CC man and we decide to adopt, the expectation somehow has to change or there are racist overtones?

[Vogi2002]

I don't think adopting has nothing to do with being Christian or not.....

unless there is a part of it that you act unethical with (or you are a racist & that is the only reason you will not adopt a child of another race).

I will say most of everyone who is posting here I know...& I trust them. I know they put a lot of thought into it and know they are speaking from thier heart.

BUT as a majority in the adoption world...I'd say it's 9 times out of 10 to do with inner racism. BUT we still have to be careful about blanket statements about everyone. Only because i grew up in a community like that, when we go back & visit (rare because all our family has moved) we talk about how we would NEVER nor COULD NEVER move back. If I owned a business there...well it wouldn't be just an option to move. So I know there are those that truly couldn't. BUT I also know a lot of people don't want to rock the boat at all...or who live in a diverse community but they don't see it...or don't want to stand out.

In the end...you have to live with your reasons. Only you know wether it is for the good of the child or if it's racism. I just challenge people to challenge themselves, if you've done that, and you really don't think that the environment is good for the child...well then you probably shouldn't!

JMO.

[SupaModel]

It's so easy to say that love will solve all the problems. Unless your the minority in the situation then you really have NO IDEA what they are going through.

When I first started dating DH some of his childhood friends were VERY NASTY to me. They really didn't know me other than I was AA. I told DH how they were and he told me that his friends weren't racist and it must be me. He said I need to be more outgoing, nice, etc... For YEARS he refused to see it. They would send christmas cards and wouldn't address me. Ingore me at gatherings etc..

A) these were his freinds so they definitely couldn't be racist.

B) He love me and didnt see color so he just assumed that everyone else would feel the same way.

Well thankfully one day he just sat and watched them and told me he finally saw what I was saying and he's sorry he put me through that. He also never spoke to them again since that day.

I think it's great to adopt a child of a different race if that's what you want to do. I just feel it's shelfish if you don't look at everything involved in that.

As an AA person in a ALL white community I am telling you it does and can affect you. There are times when it's not that easy. I definitely worry about my son growing up here. No matter that his father is CC he will be viewed as a black man. I think about him walking home after school. Will the police ask why is he in this neighborhood? What about when he starts dating? Are the parents here really open to their child dating him? Hopefully these things won't be a problem but experience tells me it can be.

In the highschool here I think maybe 2% are AA!!

Also we have a Jewish last name! My husand is 6ft5 with blonde hair and blue eyes. Even he has heard a Jewish remark before.

For people choosing this path maybe they should talk to people who are minorities in their own communities. Weather they are CC in an all AA community or vice versa and see how it was for them growing up.

[elledarcy]

Originally Posted by Yash

Fran,

I will post here and say that I do think it's a form of racism when people only want to adopt a child of their race. And I find it abhorrent when Christians say this. When Christians say this, this line from a song runs through my head. "Tell how can I love Jesus when I've never seen His face, yet I see you crying and I turn and walk away."

People strongly disagree with me about it and have told me I was wrong, but I'm not. A baby, a child needs a family but you turn them down or won't allow your profile to be shown because of the color of their skin, if that's not racism I don't know what is.

I know we aren't perfect and we all sin, but we should call a spade a spade and not make excuses.

Sorry, I'm super late on this but...

I so completely disagree. Would you say I am discriminating against the handicapped if I refused to have my profile shown to a family looking to place a child with down's syndrome? I know my limitations as a person. I know that I would not be the best mother for this child. I would want this child to have a mother who is ready and able to take care of him or her. I would not adopt a child just because it was the "Christian" thing to do. Children are not charity cases who need our pity. They are people who need loving homes and capable parents.

In my situation, my family's opposition strongly influences my decision to adopt a child of a different race. In our case, adopting a BR or AA child (though DH and I would be able to deal with this), might be harmful to the child. WE can do it, but our child deserves to be part of a family who loves and accepts her for who she is.