[Oceans]

I am curious how paying for expenses work. If you pay for an emoms expenses and she decides to parent, do you get that money back in the form of an adoption credit?

Second, if she decides to parent, would you ever be held liable for her medical expenses (even tho you agreed)?

[kelceesmom]

You can claim expenses with the tax credit if the match fails I believe.

And I don't believe you are held responsible for medical expenses if she decides to parent.

I know someone on here will have definitive answers for you tho.

[loveajax]

I think the answer probably varies by state, Oceans. But I think most PAPs know that if they expend the money, they more than likely won't "recoup" it (even if they go thru an agency and there is no adoption). I don't know whether these expenses can be claimed on a tax return, but I think they can (though the credit has its limits, etc.)

With our agency, the agency only is the one to pay expenses. With DD's birth parents, they "refused" expenses (I think because they thought they came out of our pocket) until I told them that they shouldn't (I don't know all the details, but I think the agency paid rent for a couple of months and maybe some lost wages). As much as I didn't like my agency, I did like the fact that we only paid them post-placement. I always feel "weary" when I hear about early "matches" that involve expenses.

[oceanica]

Why didn't you like your agency? That seems like a good policy for the pap.
Were they ethical with the emoms?

[waiting4amiracle]

Good morning. This one is a bit complicated and can really be the source of angst for many folks.

First - before you agree to pay any living expenses for an e-mom you should consult your attorney to be sure the expenses in question are permissible under your State laws. Every State has different laws about what expenses are "permissible" and some may even limit the amount or period of time for which expenses can be paid.

Second - Our lawyer insisted that any permissible expenses we agreed to pay for DD's b-mom were first paid to our attorney's trust account. She would then make payments directly to the vendors/service providers once she received a bill from DD's b-mom.

Third - Our Personal Experience: We had one failed placement for which we paid certain expenses. Our State does not permit us to attempt to recover those expenses (absent fraud). That said, those expenses can be included in your tax return when filing for the Adoption Tax Credit - as long as your AGI (adjusted gross income) does not exceed the IRS limits.

Fourth - Our Personal Experience: With our failed placement, once the b-mom decided to parent any of our obligations and commitments as far as expenses ended. There were a few "straggler" bills which covered the period of time prior to her decision to parent which we covered but any subsequent bills we did not (and were instructed by our attorney NOT to) pay.

In the end this becomes a very personal and somewhat legal decision so you really have to rely heavily on your attorney to guide you and advise you appropriatelty. This is one of the reasons why having a Quad-A attorney is critical to your adoption journey.

Good luck and feel free to PM me if you'd like more information.

Peace!

[loveajax]

I definitely think the agency was ethical with emoms in terms of presenting options, etc. It is a long-established agency that has a really good reputation.

Our problem probably stemmed from the fact that the SW in our case was working extremely PART TIME and was often unavailable (she even left the hospital when DD's birth mom was 10 cm dilated!). She also never really discussed OA with either DD's birth mom or us which led to some "craziness" post-placement.

From what I heard, this SW is now "limited" in her role at the agency so I would "think" about recommending them (they also have a new Exec Director who seems great).

[Cjmeck]

With the agency we used, we could allocate part of our budget to be "at risk". Meaning, if emom decides to parent, that money is gone forever. As far as medical expenses, those are billed after the fact; so I cannot imagine a PAP having to be responsible for those should she decide to parent.

[Fran27]

With my agency, we said how much we were ok to pay in expenses before the matching process, so we didn't have any bad surprises. But yes, if the match falls through, it's out of pocket. Medical expenses are after the hospital stay, and they do their best to make sure the birthmoms have medicaire if needed, but you shouldn't be responsible for them *unless* the birthmom changes her mind after the baby is placed with you.

[Beth.]

For medical, our agency requires all bills to be submitted by birth mom prior to TPR and those charges are then passed on the the adoptive parents after TPR. In our situation, birth mom qualified for medical assistance but her parents didn't want to go that route. They instead decided to cover all medical bills.

For legal, once TPR is complete, the legal fees are billed to the adoptive parents through the agency. We are still waiting for bills to come in. We don't yet know what total fees will be. In our state, birth mom (minor) and baby each have a GAL and birth mom has a lawyer. We are at the mercy at what each of the lawyers charge per hour. Both GAL's are assigned by the court, and the lawyer is the agency's regular attorney. We hoping that everything is within budget.

[elledarcy]

I think waiting4amiracle's post was right on.

We went through an agency and, as far as I know, e-moms weren't able to get any money from them either pre or post-placement (though maybe it would be different depending on a bmom's finances).

I know for sure in our state, we would not have been able to recoup any money we gave pre-placement should the adoption have failed. We could claim it as part of our adoption expenses on our taxes, but you can only claim a credit for up to $11,000 or so, so it wouldn't have made a very big difference for us (our agency fees alone were much more than this).

[Stormster]

Waiting's post is right. The only problem with recouping after failed placement is they ask identifying info on the child on the tax return which we don't have (I believe it's name and SS#)

So we weren't able to get money back for our failed placement. But I guess if we had that info we could have gotten something back.

We used a AAAA attorney in Michigan btw and he was completely versed on all aspects of interstate adoption. That is one of the many benefits of the AAAA.

[Leigh131313]

I live in Alberta, Canada - you cannot pay any birthparent living expenses, tho you can pay for councelling (why can't I figure out how to spell that?? )

[Casey677]

We were able to claim a failed match even without the name and SS#. I believe we used Baby Mom's Last Name. This was in 2004, so it could be totally different by now. Also, if we would have had an actual placement in 04, we never would have gotten a dime back from our failed attempts. in that sense, it was lucky for us our dd was born in 05.

[waiting4amiracle]

Originally Posted by Casey677

We were able to claim a failed match even without the name and SS#. I believe we used Baby Mom's Last Name. This was in 2004, so it could be totally different by now. Also, if we would have had an actual placement in 04, we never would have gotten a dime back from our failed attempts. in that sense, it was lucky for us our dd was born in 05.

Hi again all....if you go to the IRS web site (Internal Revenue Service) and search on "adoption credit" you can find a good deal of information about what can and cannot be included in your filing for the credit. One thing you NEED to do is apply to the IRS for an ATIN early so you can file your taxes and claim the credit in the event you do not yet have a SSN for your baby. Without the ATIN you cannot claim the credit. The information sheets also help to clarify how expenses related to a failed placement can be included in your filing.

Good luck!