[greenrobin]

Just a couple of thoughts

First, I've read several comments about teaching about birth control, family planning, etc. I know that I don't live in the most progressive state in the union, but the mandated curriculum in TX is abstinence. We know that BC is out there and is pretty good protection, but we're prohibited from teaching it. That's our law. I don't know what MA's curriculum is, but we need to remember that the state legislatures decide for us all what is "fit" to teach. I'm not supposed to talk to my kids at school about it. And in my first year of teaching I had a 7th grader give birth on Labor Day. True story. She had 2 other pregnancies before getting out of 8th grade. We could not legally tell her about birth control.

Second, assuming that girls were having sex with boys who were, ahem, age appropriate, getting pregnant at such a young age was perhaps stupid, but, 17 girls plotting to shoot up the school would be illegal. Both are dangerous, but in different ways. To be a pregnant teen, you are making a choice that affects you and your unborn baby--good or bad, it's still your choice to make. Taking a gun to school and harming others is definitely not your choice.

No one disagrees that this is sad. We're all wondering what drove these girls to think that this was a good idea. But they aren't criminals. They're kids who want to have babies.

[happygmom]

Originally Posted by mdesi

Building on Eopine's article, this is a more complete article. It seems that the only confirmed "pact" was one that the girls made AFTER they were pregnant to support one another with child rearing and going to school. Gloucester officials question pregnancy 'pact' - GloucesterTimes.com, Gloucester, MA

I wonder if the "pact" to support and help each other was inspired in any way by Mary Cady Ford or if it was another serendipitous moment of "sisterhood". Ms. Ford started a program to help mothers stay in college after her experience at Vanderbilt University when the only alternatives that VU offered her during her accidental pregnancy were adoption or abortion. She had her baby at her sorority house and her sorority sisters babysat while she went to classes.

Maybe this was another moment of "sisterhood"?

Vanderbilt View : Birth of a Leader

Happy G'Ma

[dpen6]

Originally Posted by greenrobin

Just a couple of thoughts

First, I've read several comments about teaching about birth control, family planning, etc. I know that I don't live in the most progressive state in the union, but the mandated curriculum in TX is abstinence. We know that BC is out there and is pretty good protection, but we're prohibited from teaching it. That's our law. I don't know what MA's curriculum is, but we need to remember that the state legislatures decide for us all what is "fit" to teach. I'm not supposed to talk to my kids at school about it. And in my first year of teaching I had a 7th grader give birth on Labor Day. True story. She had 2 other pregnancies before getting out of 8th grade. We could not legally tell her about birth control.

Second, assuming that girls were having sex with boys who were, ahem, age appropriate, getting pregnant at such a young age was perhaps stupid, but, 17 girls plotting to shoot up the school would be illegal. Both are dangerous, but in different ways. To be a pregnant teen, you are making a choice that affects you and your unborn baby--good or bad, it's still your choice to make. Taking a gun to school and harming others is definitely not your choice.

No one disagrees that this is sad. We're all wondering what drove these girls to think that this was a good idea. But they aren't criminals. They're kids who want to have babies.

I agree. The outcry from this whole situation is as if they did shoot up the school. BC can be taught in MA schools, and in out high School it is.

The mews said tonight that there really was no eveidence of any pact. It was very young, misguided(whether that be paretnal misguided or society misguided who knows but the education needs to be about respecting there bodies and themselves. The education needs to include the incredible responsibity that have babies entails.

The otheer thing that is really making me laugh is the beating there parents are taking. It is SO easy to stand above everyone and proclaim where the paernts went wrong ect. these are generally hard working parents that probaly had no idea what was going on....But I can hear it now...GAASP,,any good parent should know what their teen is doing at all times, communication needs to be open and flowing at all times/ Well folks, good luck to you all that really believe thatsall going to work. Each generation of teens has their own agenda in terms of seperating from there parents the most open of parents STILL run the risk of angelde or angle do screwing up. Its all part of being a teen. What is needed here is not the holier then tho attiudes of superioty its how to prevent this kind of mind set in the first place. I want to challenge to all to think back and tell me you didn't, not once, ever go aganist your parents, didnt not once succumb to peer pressure(I am thinking thats what was going on here) and ether got away with it or paid the price.

[zxczxcasdasd]

Haven't really chimed in on this before, but it's been slowly settling and marinating.

I'm mostly known here as an adoptive mom, which I am. But J, my ason was conceived when my husband was 17...and it was on purpose. It was not an "oops." In a very stupid and immature phase of teenage romance, she (hubby's girlfriend at the time) thought that having his baby would be a loving romantic gesture and he thought it was a fantastic declaration of love. He left birth control (or lack of it) up to her and didn't protect himself. Her mother let him spend the night at their house regularly, knowing he was lying to his parents to be able to do it.

It was stupid, stupid, stupid at every step of the way. It was determined, focused stupidity. It was a traumatic, conflict-ridden situation. It ripped everyone's hearts out that was involved. The adults pointed fingers and blamed each other. The kids were shamed, pitied, consoled. It was tragic.

I'm getting to my point...

My point is that the incredible stupidity and irresponsibility of the circumstances of bringing J into the world did not automatically determine the ultimate outcome of his life, or the life of anyone involved. It was the choices that were made after J was conceived and the choices that were made after he was born that wrote the story of his life.

It has yet to be determined whether the story of these children's lives (both the mothers and the babies) will ultimately be tragic or triumphant.

I don't look back and think that how J was born was "meant to be." I think it was tragic for pretty much everyone. But it was overcome. And it wasn't J's adoption by me that overcame anything- I was late in the game. By the time I came around, the "overcoming" had been going on for a long time- from the moment J's dad, now my hubby, committed himself to fatherhood when he was 17. My adoption of him happened because M was not able (for many reasons, some not in her control) to sustain her commitment to motherhood after he was born. It really had nothing to do with his conception and birth.

These girls and their families can still overcome. One or more or, please God, all of these babies can grow up healthy and stable and loved and successful.

J is spectacular, a soph in college, confident, articulate... I could go on and on. He was not doomed because he was conceived in high school by 2 kids who made several really stupid choices, enabled by some stupid adults and in spite of the impotence of the attempts at prevention by responsible adults. Neither are these babies doomed for coming from similar circumstances of intentional stupidity, immaturity, impotent attempts at prevention, and abdication of responsibility. It will be determined by what happens now and in the months and years to come.

[Oceans]

What gets to me about this situation is that no one (our society) believes it could happen in their family. Yes, teens will do what they will do and if they want to have sex, they will have sex and even the perfect parent would not be able to prevent it. That (IMO) is a reason enough to have them on BC...

If I told you that 1 in 25 teens will get into a life altering (but preventable) car accident wouldn’t you do something to make sure your teen was one of the 24?

Teen pregnancy is an equal opportunity issue. It happens in all income brackets and all races. It's also a huge issue in the US that most parents don't know about. We can say that kids will be kids and teach them how to be responsible (which has been going on for years) but IMO parents need to step up and be responsible (to the extent they can) for their own teens reproductive health and responsibility. I've said it before and I'll say it again... It is mind boggling to me that we vaccinate against an STD but not place them on BC or at least teach BC methods consistently. There are lots of options to the pill.

[crick]

I have no naive thoughts that it couldn't happen to my kids/family. What I do believe though is the more education and just all around hope for the future you give your child, the better chance you have to avoid it.

I am truly amazed how many parents do not talk to their kids about this at all or if they do, there's some "Magic Age" where they wait to have these discussions. In reality, society/media/peers really have changed that old age timing of the "birds & the bees" discussion. Plus, you need to do so much more now than that basic b & b talk.

I don't feel I am superior at all, but I do at times really get irked that a lot of parents these days are far more interested in their careers, appearances etc. than teaching their kids to grow up responsibly. I see it all the time with my kids' peers and it's just mindblowing.

[loveajax]

Oceans, I agree. If I could "vaccinate" my DD against pg (knowing for sure it was a SAFE option), I would do it in a heartbeat.

There are moms that are choosing not to vaccinate their girls against HPV (i think that's what it's called) because they don't want to think THEIR kids will be having sex. I haven't forgotten what it's like to be a teen, thank God, so I can expect similar behavior from DD (though I will hope for better behavior than mine!)

[BrandyHagz]

I do everything I can to ensure I won't be a grandmother any time soon.

I've posted in the past about all I have done to prepare my son for the time when he will be forced to make a choice.

Tools. It's all about giving them the tools they need to make an informed decision. If you don't do that (head in the sand mentality) then you are taking a far greater risk than I am willing to take...which is your choice.

I am all about making a fully informed decision. I can share my opinions and thoughts on what I would do, but what it comes down to is what happens in that moment, nothing else.

I was DARN lucky not to have gotten pregnant in high school. That's all it was, luck. I was having unprotected sex with my boyfriend and at any time, we could have become parents. I'd like to think that if my parents had done a better job at preparing ne for what that meant, I would have made more responsible decisions.

The only way you can ensure your child is not going to have sex before marriage is to A) lock them in the closet until they walk down the aisle or B) Chastity Belt.

Besides, I am far less worried about pregnancy than I am the any number of life altering diseases out there.

I have condoms in my house. They are not a taboo topic of discussion either. Nor is anything else about sex. I want him to be comfortable enough to come to me when (not if, but when) he is faced with the decision of having sex before marriage.

[Oceans]

I think I am probably preaching to the choir here since adoption is typically the result of an unplanned pregnancy... We are VERY aware that it happens in teens and older.

LA: What kills me is that there are states that have legislated HPV vaccinations - probably due in large part to the lobbying efforts of the pharmaceutical company BUT then they turn around and only allow abstinence to be taught in schools. Texas is an excellent example of that...

I have to wonder... If there were an annual vaccination for boys, I'd be willing to bet most parents wouldn't have a problem with it. There is just something about girls and sex that gets America's puritanical panties in a bunch.

[loveajax]

I've suggested this book before, but it's really a great satire....The Abstinence Teacher by Tom Perrotta.

[aclee]

Had on teens tonight that either were pregnant, or wanted to me. One 16 year old that was 8 months pregnant was crying with every word she said about the whole situation. Her mom kept saying over and over again about how she didn't even know her daughter was sexually active. Her daughter was crying in one scene and said, I wish my parents had talked to me more about sex. Her mom's response? Well she had health class and even got a certificate in health class for getting high marks in sex education. It made thing two things. 1) I wonder what was taught in that class, and if the mother asked, so she knew what knowledge her daughter did and did not have. 2) I will make sure my kids get more than the bird and the bees, how it all works talk. We will have discussions about the ramifications of choices etc as well. I think discussing the results of choices made regarding sex is JUST as important as them knowing the facts of how it happens. Maybe more so because that sperm is going to find that egg whether they know "how" that happens or not. KWIM?

[mdesi]

No offense, but that 16 y.o. girl is trying to deflect blame for her situation onto others. No 16 y.o. that I have ever met is w/o the knowledge that having sex may get them pregnant. These kids have access to more information about sex than any generation before. It's very natural (appropriate for the developmental stage, that is) for a teenager to try to find someone to be responsible for his/her actions when the actions result in a consequence that he/she does not want ot suffer. i.e. I'm not buying the "I don't know nothing about conceiving babies" argument.

That said, I would hope that someone would talk about condoms, and the girl insisting the use of condoms. (I don't think the use of condoms is highly prized by teen boys, just from overhearing some talk about it.)

[aclee]

Originally Posted by mdesi

No offense, but that 16 y.o. girl is trying to deflect blame for her situation onto others. No 16 y.o. that I have ever met is w/o the knowledge that having sex may get them pregnant. These kids have access to more information about sex than any generation before. It's very natural (appropriate for the developmental stage, that is) for a teenager to try to find someone to be responsible for his/her actions when the actions result in a consequence that he/she does not want ot suffer. i.e. I'm not buying the "I don't know nothing about conceiving babies" argument.

That said, I would hope that someone would talk about condoms, and the girl insisting the use of condoms. (I don't think the use of condoms is highly prized by teen boys, just from overhearing some talk about it.)

I agree that she knew she could get pregnant, but that doesn't mean she understood the gravity of becoming a parent at 16, and how that would effect her life. I don't think that many 16 year olds can understand without discussion what being a parent is like, and the responsibility that goes along with parenting. They glorify it. I think with a lot of discussion (and maybe some viewing of the show The Baby Borrowers?) they can have a better understanding.

I also don't think that health classes and sex education classes excuse a parent from their responsibility for talking with their child. I think this teen WAS passing the blame, but so was her mom by basically saying...I thought they taught her all that in school.