[oceanica]

I Would like to have your thoughts on this issue. I know when I get my little one I am going to give her (or him) everything in the world. She will not be wanting for anything. She will live in a very nice house and have all the material things she wants and needs and have the best in education and she'll see the world and have an extended family who loves her. But most of all I'm going to love her so fiercely and completely that you cannot imagine. I'm going to try to involve her firstmom as much as I can to help her through the issues and help her understand that she is loved and wanted. I'm going to be the best and most exceptional parent there is. I'm not doing it to be a humanitarian. I'm doing it because I want to be a mom, a "real" mom, to a child and mainly give her all the love and everything else I have to give. There is no drama in my house, it's stable, we don't go out partying and we don't have anything to do but take care of our baby. It should be as good for a child as it can be.
That being said, I know that every adoptee will have feelings of abandonment to some extent or other. Although adoption generally is good for the child there is always that issue. We want to help our kids all we can and it hurts us when they hurt but there's not a lot we can do. I have read (don't ask the study cause I don't remember) that adopted children are generally more well adjusted and "happy" than bios. But in the end is it enough.
I recently read an article and the adopted dad was saying that the little girl asked him why he didn't just give money to her family in guatemala so they could keep her. What do you say to that? It seems like somehow no matter what you do adoption is just never as good. And if you read some of the posts on these forums written by adoptees and bmoms, you'll see that there are some seriously messed up people out there and they blame every single problem they have or have ever had on adoption. And yet, obvioulsy bios have just as many problems and trials, but they can't blame it on that. It almost makes you want to walk away.
I just want to end up with a happy, ethical, well adjusted and productive human being who realizes that I love her more than anything.

[Fran27]

Regarding love - it's great that you have no doubts you will love your child, but you need to be aware that love isn't something you can control. That love might not come right away, and with too high expectations you might feel really guilty about it - post adoption depression is very real. Just had to throw it out there.

Otherwise, my general opinion is that unhappy people are usually much more vocal than happy people. So, for every negative adoptee story you read, there are a lot of positive ones.

About the things kids say... well, kids are just kids. And most kids will push the adoption button, but if it wasn't there, they would just have found something else. It's up to you to raise a well adjusted child, and to teach from the start that their adoption was a good thing (no matter what lots of birthmothers can say, your child needs to believe it).

[lovemy2boys]

Originally Posted by oceanica

I just want to end up with a happy, ethical, well adjusted and productive human being who realizes that I love her more than anything.

Wow - every parent's wish...right?

There really is no way of knowing how adoption will affect our children...I have 2 cousins, both adopted, lived in the same household all their lives with my aunt/uncle (well, my uncle now - my aunt passed away) and they have very different views of adoption. Neither are bad views, but they are quite different.

I think one of the main things we can do as adoptive parents is keep an open dialogue with our kids about their adoptions, and ALWAYS maintain compassion and integrity when talking about their firstfamilies...and let them know that it's OK to talk about them as well.

The other day my 6 year old and I were talking about his firstmom and he said his "mind is messed up" trying to understand why he has 2 moms but only lives with one. And this was great that he opened up and that we could talk about it.

Now, this doesn't mean he won't be one of the "seriously messed up" people you talk about, but we are doing everything we can to make sure he feels comfortable expressing any confusion/anger/sadness whatever he may have...and although I'd never wish those feelings on anyone, even if he does have adoption related issues, I wouldn't trade the opportunity to be his mother for anything in the world.

Also, (and I'm sure you know this) I'd be careful not to overcompensate with the material things...My uncle has done this for year, and it's really backfired.

Good luck on your journey, and don't get discouraged!

[Stormster]

You should read Winnecott. It's all about his theory of "The Good Enough Mother" He believes that having a mother who plays with you, has predictable moods, allows you to separate from her in a safe emotional environment and is "present" is more important than all the other things combined.

But the other stuff is great too!

[shy_bear]

There is NO guarantees in life. You can have a bio child, adopt a newborn, or adopt an older child and give them all the love, support, and advantages in the world and they can still turn out to be a troubled soul! My DH's brother is a COMPLETE IDIOT! They were raised in the same home, by the same parents, and had all the same advantages...you just never know. I think you are putting way too much pressure on yourself. I have three wonderful kids. My oldest is everyone's dream child. She does great at school, is very well behaved, I know will go far in life. My second child who we have had since birth has always had issues with being adopted and she has some emotional problems so what her future holds is up in the air. My youngest was born with some health issues and we will not know what his future holds till his older. I love them ALL the same and would do anything for them...my job as their mom is to support them no matter what happens and show them the right path to go down.

[Saya]

I want to respond to a few of your statements:

"I know that every adoptee will have feelings of abandonment to some extent or other"

Hmmm - there was an interesting discussion on the Adult Adoptee board about this recently, about how using words like "every" and "always" doesn't make sense. Some adoptees never feel a sense of abandonment. Some do to the extent that it permeates them their entire lives. Two sibling adoptees who grow up in the same house with the same parents can have totally different feelings about this. People are different, and their responses to being adopted will be different.

"I just want to end up with a happy, ethical, well adjusted and productive human being who realizes that I love her more than anything."

This made me smile. This is what all parents want, I would think, no matter how their kids came into their homes and their hearts. Unfortunately no matter how your kids come to you, there are no guarantees. Love isn't always "enough." BUT I believe a parent who shows their child unconditional love, nutures them, has open lines of communications, develops mutual trust with their child, and allows their child to own their feelings will in fact be building a good foundation for this to happen.

"I recently read an article and the adopted dad was saying that the little girl asked him why he didn't just give money to her family in guatemala so they could keep her. What do you say to that? It seems like somehow no matter what you do adoption is just never as good. "

It's interesting - my daughter is in fact from Guatemala, so I've thought a lot about this kind of thing. She's only 2 now, but I could see us having a conversation like this when she's older. My feeling about it is this - it's an excellent, yet difficult question. If and when she asks it, I will try to respond honestly in the best of my ability in an age appropriate manner, making it clear to her that I am proud of the fact that she is thinking about these things and that she feels comfortable enough to ask these kinds of questions. I don't feel like by asking it she will be in anyway saying that adoption isn't "as good." I think she'll be trying to sort out some very complicated issues about family, love, poverty, charity - and it will be my job as her mom to help her with that process.

[crick]

I think you might consider changing your perspective a bit on things you read.

I read posts here by everyone and while yes, I do see some that play the "blame game" you mentioned, overall what I see are things to remind me that not everything in adoption is this rosy picture everyone might come into it thinking it is. But that's okay, imo, because a piece of adoption does involve loss and it's important to be aware of that. I also am reminded that being well adjusted, ethical, happy and productive does NOT mean life without challenges or grief or anything other than the perfect life.

I had challenges in life too and I'm not adopted. I might vent or discuss some of those issues, but does it mean overall I'm not any of those things listed above? No. Adoption tends to put this expectation on people that they have to be a certain way and we all do it, regardless of the way we are a part of adoption. It's an unfair expectation though because we are all entitled to have a full range of emotions and opinions without being labeled as unhappy, bitter, blaming, unloyal, or whatever else we might use.

I'm also an amom who is affected by adoption in ways that isn't so perfect. I post about those and I vent too. I might even "blame" adoption at times although really what I'm doing is not blaming but incorporating it and reacting to some things that happen because of adoption. Again, doesn't make me a messed up person, imo. Like everyone else, I'm just trying to do what I need to do to help my kids, help myself and understand things better. To learn. That is just what an adoptee or firstmom is doing too. Why can't they have some sadness or anger even without being pigeonholed as "messed up"? kwim?

I see a lot of posts from aparents too that make me go "huh?" so it's not just an adoptee/first parent "issue", imo.

Is love enough? Well, I don't think love is enough in any family, regardless of adoption or not. Every parent should strive to provide their children with much more than love. Love doesn't feed anyone or clothe them. Love doesn't teach a child morals or ethics or how to become self sufficient and productive. It takes a balance of so many things to be a good parent. All the material things in the world will mean nothing if there isn't much else. It's all things...

For me a really important key for an aparent is to remember that there's another part of my child to nourish. To remember that there is a piece of them to learn about and to be aware of but again, it's a PIECE, not their whole being.

[loveajax]

You know I have been thinking about taking a break from these boards because I think they make me "adoption-obsessed" when adoption is really not a "big deal" in our family (my DD and DH are both adoptees). I think sometimes I think too much about it....(but of course I have learned so much and gotten so much support and I want to give support if I can as well).

One thing that makes me batty is the "assumption" that there is something so remarkably "different" about adoptees. I think every person has issues in life to confront, and for adoptees, adoption is one such issue. I can't speak for all adoptees, but I know my husband and his siblings feel like adoption in no way defines them if that makes sense.

When you love a child, you love them unconditionally. That means that if "tough" stuff comes up, you deal with it (Lovemy2boys example is quite beautiful). It's just good parenting, imo. Also, to try to "control" what any future child may feel about being adopted just will cause you to go bananas!

Also, it's hard to "know" what it's like to parent a child that you adopt until you are "there." For us at least, I really don't see any remarkable differences in how we parent DD than if she were our bio child.

Finally, studies are welll...I don't know...usually you can find a study to say just about anything. Even if they were totally accurate, your situation may fall outside the bell curve.

Good luck in the process!!!! Have a lot of confidence in yourself that you will be a great parent.

[Cjmeck]

I try to keep in mind, that for the most part, people come here for support. Maybe they are struggling and want to know they aren't alone. Maybe they need advice to help them sort out their thoughts. Maybe they need a little guidance. Or maybe they have no issues at all (or have worked through them) and enjoy supporting others. So, for every person who comes here with struggles--there are TONS of others who are handling their adoption situation just fine. In fact, the main turning point for us to decide to adopt was my discussions with other adult adoptees. I have 5 people close to me who were adopted as infants and ALL of them are happy, bonded, loved and well-adjusted with their lives. And they don't personally feel the need to connect with anyone in the adoption community b/c its just not an issue in their life. Its a part of them--but it doesn't define them. I wouldn't begin to generalize and say that's true for all (or even most) adoptees. But it is true for all the adoptees that I know. Adoption is not without losses for all involved; that's just how it is. It kind of like the evening news. They go and on about all the horrible things that are happening in the town. But the great majority of the city is fine

[Isabo]

One of the things I suggest you do is to open your mind to why there are "seriously messed up adoptees and bmoms", as you put it, posting on this forum. The history of adoption in this country is a sordid one. The closed adoption era, which started in the time after World War II, has come to be known as the "baby snatch era" or BSE, when millions of young, mostly middle class, mostly white women lost their children for the crime of being pregnant out of wedlock. Many were treated terribly, were treated as criminals or at least as "bad girls", and their children were taken from them without their consent any without any followup counseling or care. Documentation of these repressive times is out there, if you are willing to read it. A book was just written about Georgia Tann, called "The Baby Thief". She had an organization that, in coercion with doctors, told young mothers their babies were dead and then sold the babies to high paying clients. She and her organization were in large part behind the secretive practices that established the closed adoption era.

The loss of a child is the worst thing a parent can go through. Many of the "bmoms" who post on this board, if they are in their mid 40s or older, relinquished children during the BSE. Their loss of their child was not acknowledged and they were told to go on as if nothing ever happened. That will "seriously mess" with anyone, and we mothers are finding ways to heal our own losses and to make sure that future generations of women do not lose their children while being treated in such heinous ways. We speak out to make sure that the mothers are not forgotten in the rush for others to become parents, AS WE WERE FORGOTTEN.

As far as "seriously messed up adoptees", I cannot speak for adoptees, but it seems to me that losing your mother at a very young age, being given to strangers whose voice, face and smell you don't recognize, being raised in a family that you have nothing in common with, and being denied any knowledge of your genetic history or your biological family could cause a great deal of trauma in a child.

If you lost your child or your mother and never heard from them again - and then was told that loss was "for the best" and you should be HAPPY about it - do you think that might "mess you up" a bit?

I would suggest that you continue to educate yourself about adoption. In order to round out your understanding of adoption and give you a complete picture of the reality of adoption for all members of the triad, I would encourage you to read books that focus on the losses that adoptees and birthfamilies experience as the result of relinquishment and being adopted. There are books that also address the losses that the adoptive parents experience in adoption as well. I recommend books such as The Primal Wound (written by an adoptive parent), The Girls Who Went Away, and BirthBond. There are many other good books, but these will get you started.

[gottahavehope]

Sure read those books, I did. But also remember that the writer of say, The Primal Wound is coming from an era when adoption was also a dirty little secret. Can you imagine finding out you were adopted when you were an adult? Yikes! It definitely clouds the author's perspective. And, she does write from the perspective that ALL adoptees are going to suffer from that birth trauma in some way.

As for love being enough, we have no way of knowing what the future holds for our children. All we can do is trust our instincts. My instincts tell me that I need to get down on my hands and knees and play with my children every day. My instincts tell me that I need to give them copious amounts of hugs and kisses. My instincts tell me that I need to be open and understanding of any thoughts, fears, questions, and concerns they have about not only adoption, but all matters of the heart, mind, and spirit. I'm trusting my instincts and knowing that whatever comes we will face it as a family.

Good Question.

[Isabo]

Originally Posted by gottahavehope

Sure read those books, I did. But also remember that the writer of say, The Primal Wound is coming from an era when adoption was also a dirty little secret. Can you imagine finding out you were adopted when you were an adult? Yikes! It definitely clouds the author's perspective. And, she does write from the perspective that ALL adoptees are going to suffer from that birth trauma in some way.

The author of the Primal Wound, Nancy Verrier, is an adoptive PARENT and has a Masters in Clinical Psychology and an extensive resume covering a lot of experience as a Marriage, Child and Family Therapist and Adoption researcher. I have never heard or read that she is an adoptee, let alone a late discovery adoptee. That information does not appear anywhere on her website and is not included in her statement about herself, which discusses her childhood and adulthood. Where did you hear that she is a late discovery adoptee? The author did adopted a child in 1969 and, as I recall, her interest in adoptee grief and loss was sparked by the losses that she saw her daughter experience which were related to the loss of her first family. Her book has received two awards: Book of the Year Award from the Council for Equal Rights in Adoption in 1993, and the Emma Vilardi Humanitarian Award from the American Adoption Congress in 2003. It appears that a lot of people have high regard for this book and the author.

[manni28]

As an adoptee, I would have to say each person is different. I don't feel a lost because I was adopted. I have great aparents who ( before my son was born) were the lights of my life. However, I do believe that all adoptees, at one time or another, are curious and will seek out the bparents for answers, but it doesn't mean they're "lost”,” hurt" or "longing" for the bparents. To me, it means they are curious, but their aparents will always be the parents. Some love is enough, but curiosity prevails

[mama_again]

Originally Posted by oceanica

It almost makes you want to walk away.

As an amom and spouse to an adoptee do not ever walk away whether in your heart or in your thoughts or even your words, especially words. Love without measure is of the utmost importance as hard as that can be sometimes, and then allow your precious one to find his or her identity. I once had someone tell me in a very painful moment of being separated from our daughter, was if you hold a butterfly you can crush its wings, but if you release it, it will come back... we released and she came back stronger and much more beautiful than ever before. Love is the greatest gift you have to give, no material thing can fill that...Be there for loving support always, no matter what comes you way,,, don't walk away...

[elledarcy]

I agree that all parents want to have a happy, well-adjusted child and that there are no guarantees. Maybe the best you can do is to try to teach your children that it's okay to be sad about adoption, but that it's not okay to dwell on it so much that it holds them back. This would be true of any hardship (death of a family member, a serious illness, etc.).

Sometimes it’s hard as an a-mom to hear about the shady dealings that occurred in past adoptions. I think anyone would feel horrible about this, but I also hate being made to feel guilty about the way adoption was and is practiced by some people. This casts a cloud on all adoptions. Each situation is different and many people proceed through adoption ethically and go on to have perfectly happy family lives.

It hurts me to think that the first time I held my daughter in my arms, I was nothing more than a stranger "whose voice, face and smell [she didn’t] recognize" and that she is going to be "raised in a family that [she has] nothing in common with." When I first saw that precious little girl in her birthmother's arms, I loved her just as much as if I had carried her in my womb for nine months. She was the most beautiful thing I had ever seen and I knew she was meant to be my daughter. This doesn’t take away from how much her birthmom loves her; it just means that I love her, too. She is my daughter. She came into our home because four adults made that choice. No one can take away the difficulties that she will encounter as an adoptee with us or that she would have encountered growing up with a single, teenage mother in her birthfamily.

I guess I am saying I don’t want to feel guilty and worried anymore. I just want to love my child. Maybe love isn’t enough to make her into a well-adjusted person, but the love of her parents and birthfamily will hopefully help make navigating this life a little easier.