[SupaModel]

Originally Posted by paigeturner

It wasn't a guardian angel or god that led me to the backseat of that chevy...it was beer.

Ok now that was actually funny!

[loveajax]

Yes, and I need some levity today!!! One of those days....thanks for the laugh, Paige.

[jren]

To the original question, is it politically incorrect to think your child is "better off" in one situation versus another? I think it's not healthy for the child to hear. It would shine a negative light on their biological heritage.

As far as the statement "meant to be together". I think that as a child, it's reassuring to hear that they belong in the family that is raising them. It can give a child a sense of security knowing that they weren't just thrown together randomly. I think it's important for a child's self esteem to think that their birthparents made a wise choice (even if it isn't how the birthparent feels in retrospect, they don't need to hear that as a child).

I'm sure that when the child can see for his/herself their birthparents raising other children in a perfectly capable/happy way - there's going to be questions from the child on why they were placed and not the other sibling. For the child's sake, I think it's important to stand by why the original decision was made and not let them feel like they are where they are because of a temporary lapse in judgement (talking here about those who decide later that they COULD have done it and wish they wouldn't have placed.) I don't diminish that, but think that telling a child would be harmful and confusing.

Now once the child is an adult and has an adult relationship with his/her birthfamily, then those more adult issues could be discussed. KWIM? I just think children should be able to stay as innocent and uncomplicated for as long as possible and not have to deal with all this adult stuff - they'll have enough to deal with as they get older.

Just an afterthought.. My DD really does love to hear her adoption story, how we met her birthparents, how they picked us to be her parents. I don't say that she's meant for us, but that we were meant to be her parents and we were meant to be the family we are. Slight distinction, I know, but I don't look at her as a possession - though she does own us!

[loveajax]

Jren, that's a good point.

I would NEVER ever want DD to feel like she is "lucky" to be with us...In fact, when people say that, I totally cringe and correct them. I just can't "ignore" though that DD's birth mom has said some stuff/I have seen some things that makes me think "yes, it's a good thing that DD was placed with us." (I think maybe terms like "better off" are the wrong ones...I know I used it!).

I also tell DD that we were meant to be a family because I do believe that (not in the "spiritual" sense per se (I also do not believe God wants any one to suffer)). I like the word "bashert" that you used, Aclee.

I didn't mean to start any kind of maelstrom (really!). I have just been struggling lately with some stuff and I think I am trying to realize that my feelings are "OK" because they are A) my feelings and B) based on our own adoption situation which of course is different than any one else's.

[opalwench]

Originally Posted by jren

To the original question, is it politically incorrect to think your child is "better off" in one situation versus another? I think it's not healthy for the child to hear. It would shine a negative light on their biological heritage.

As far as the statement "meant to be together". I think that as a child, it's reassuring to hear that they belong in the family that is raising them. It can give a child a sense of security knowing that they weren't just thrown together randomly. I think it's important for a child's self esteem to think that their birthparents made a wise choice (even if it isn't how the birthparent feels in retrospect, they don't need to hear that as a child).

I'm sure that when the child can see for his/herself their birthparents raising other children in a perfectly capable/happy way - there's going to be questions from the child on why they were placed and not the other sibling. For the child's sake, I think it's important to stand by why the original decision was made and not let them feel like they are where they are because of a temporary lapse in judgement (talking here about those who decide later that they COULD have done it and wish they wouldn't have placed.) I don't diminish that, but think that telling a child would be harmful and confusing.

Now once the child is an adult and has an adult relationship with his/her birthfamily, then those more adult issues could be discussed. KWIM? I just think children should be able to stay as innocent and uncomplicated for as long as possible and not have to deal with all this adult stuff - they'll have enough to deal with as they get older.

Jren, I understand what you're saying and I understand how you feel, but I for one would just choose to gloss over the question and not answer it if I could. Maybe that sounds like I'm ignoring the question but I'd rather not lie to my bdaughter.

No it's not appropriate to tell her about the pressure or trials that I dealt with, but I don't want her growing up hearing a story that's daisies and lollipops and then hearing the truth as an "adult" and not believing the adult-version because that's not what she'd heard her whole life. Somewhere there has to be a place for honesty.

This is why I've stopped trying to write an explanation of why she was placed. Because there's no place in there where I can say, "Even as I placed pen to paper, it felt wrong," and "Half an hour after you'd left, which was maybe 6 hours after I signed" I was crying and screaming for someone to bring you back.

No I don't think I should burden a child with that kind of pain. But I think it's an insult to all parties to just tell a pretty version for years on end and suddenly change it to the ugly truth.

I guess what needs to come out of it is, "It was a very hard decision and when you're a bit older we can talk about it more." I'm afraid to say, but I think that the aparents are going to have to do most of the work in that area.

Yet, again, I want to say, I understand the angle you're using, I'm just disagreeing at least slightly. While I may feel I made the Wrong Choice, it wasn't the worst choice in the whole world... it wasn't an inherently bad choice (it's possible to be faced with two not back choices, like do I want chocolate or strawberry ice cream, etc...) Her parents are good parents. But I feel like for me and us, I made the wrong choice. Luckily she's not suffering too much from it, (not trying to discount adoptee feeling here) even if I'm in the midst of emotional turmoil alot.

[belleinblue1978]

I did comment that I felt that I made the wrong choice. That has NOTHING to do with my son's parents. They love him and that is all I care about.

I wish I would have been stronger and more sure of myself and less weak and said I can do this without this man who can't see my worth or our son's worth. I wish the agency would have said, you are college educated, you have earning potential, we help women with this stuff all the time, when I asked about getting help.

My feeling pressured has nothing to do with my son's parents, they are not even on my radar when it comes to my anger about the situation.

I also wasn't trying to make anyone feel guilty, but we're all here to learn right? So for some women that meant to be thing is a trigger, just like everyone has triggers. I was commenting on that and that it was nice to hear an aparent say that, when so often that is something that triggers me.

[SchmennaLeigh]

Originally Posted by opalwench

Jren, I understand what you're saying and I understand how you feel, but I for one would just choose to gloss over the question and not answer it if I could. Maybe that sounds like I'm ignoring the question but I'd rather not lie to my bdaughter.

I think Jren has a great point for the initial question: No. It's not appropriate. For either side. Adoptive parents or birth parents. That's why I never, ever say her life is better/worse. It's simply different.

[opalwench]

Originally Posted by SchmennaLeigh

I think Jren has a great point for the initial question: No. It's not appropriate. For either side. Adoptive parents or birth parents. That's why I never, ever say her life is better/worse. It's simply different.

I understand that. (Also, I've now been awake for an hour and a half more, cognitive juices are flowing better.)

What I was trying to address was this part mainly...

As far as the statement "meant to be together". I think that as a child, it's reassuring to hear that they belong in the family that is raising them. It can give a child a sense of security knowing that they weren't just thrown together randomly. I think it's important for a child's self esteem to think that their birthparents made a wise choice (even if it isn't how the birthparent feels in retrospect, they don't need to hear that as a child).

I'm sure that when the child can see for his/herself their birthparents raising other children in a perfectly capable/happy way - there's going to be questions from the child on why they were placed and not the other sibling. For the child's sake, I think it's important to stand by why the original decision was made and not let them feel like they are where they are because of a temporary lapse in judgement (talking here about those who decide later that they COULD have done it and wish they wouldn't have placed.) I don't diminish that, but think that telling a child would be harmful and confusing.

Now once the child is an adult and has an adult relationship with his/her birthfamily, then those more adult issues could be discussed. KWIM? I just think children should be able to stay as innocent and uncomplicated for as long as possible and not have to deal with all this adult stuff - they'll have enough to deal with as they get older.

Not trying to be offensive to anyone, nor am I trying to say that I'd tell my bdaughter that she'd have had such a better life with us. It's different on so many levels, not inherently better or worse (I mentioned earlier, oldest/only vs. middle child).

[Stormster]

Opal, Belle, TGMom, I understand what you are saying and in your particular cases it makes perfect sense to me but what if the child's birth parents have serious, serious problems. Like nothing CLOSE to normal members of society.

Wouldn't it be a lie to just say "it's not better or worse, just different" ? What would you say to that situation?

I'll NEVER have this kind (better or worse off) of conversation with DS but your opinions on this would be invaluable to me.

PS OpalW Just bookmarked your blog, can't wait to read it.

[SchmennaLeigh]

The truth is truth. I said in a previous post that sometimes you can't deny it. The parents that have said that their child was languishing in the foster care system I think have a case for "better." But you walk that line, even then, of diminishing their view of their biological family and, as such, themselves.

I think this remains a case-by-case basis issue and, even within a case that is a better-vs-worse, you need to be careful with your wording and always affirm your child. Some say that they're being reassuring to their children but their words don't always show that and so, my ultimate hope, is that everyone is aware of how our words can hurt. Yes, even the everyday parents can hurt their children with their views on this subject.

[dpen6]

Originally Posted by Stormster

Opal, Belle, TGMom, I understand what you are saying and in your particular cases it makes perfect sense to me but what if the child's birth parents have serious, serious problems. Like nothing CLOSE to normal members of society.

Wouldn't it be a lie to just say "it's not better or worse, just different" ? What would you say to that situation?

I'll NEVER have this kind (better or worse off) of conversation with DS but your opinions on this would be invaluable to me.

PS OpalW Just bookmarked your blog, can't wait to read it.

I don't think anyone needs to tell the child that they were better off or not. That subject does not need to be broached with them. They may want to know the why's and I beleive that has been discussed. When the child becomes an adult they will be the ones to figure out if they were better off or not. Its gets tricky when either bparent or aparent decides to tell the child if they were better off or not because they are speaking for them. Deep down a parent may feel they were but those feelings are yours. In the case of severe addiction, abuse ect most adopted people will be able to figure it out on there own. It is pretty much a given that in those cases the child is better off. I think the danger arises when one set of parents or another use the "better off" Argument as a method to try to direct anothers thinking. When it becomes a superiority issues...us vs them. AS in "You were MUCH better off with us...look what you could have been brought in!" OR..."you would have been better off to stay with me as I am the better person, look at what I have done" Either case perpetuate the tug of war and is not good for the child/adult.

As adults we can figure out what was better or worse for us.

[belleinblue1978]

Originally Posted by Stormster

Opal, Belle, TGMom, I understand what you are saying and in your particular cases it makes perfect sense to me but what if the child's birth parents have serious, serious problems. Like nothing CLOSE to normal members of society.

Wouldn't it be a lie to just say "it's not better or worse, just different" ? What would you say to that situation?

I'll NEVER have this kind (better or worse off) of conversation with DS but your opinions on this would be invaluable to me.

PS OpalW Just bookmarked your blog, can't wait to read it.

You know, even though I know that placing me must have really messed up my first mom, I'm pretty sure that my life was at the very least more comfortable financially and I'm pretty sure that I got a much better education. My adoptive parents aren't rich but there was always food on the table and clothes on our backs and we had toys and stuff. My aparents both have college degrees and both had careers (dad is retired now).

My first family... four older brothers, none of which have hs degrees, all of them divorced at least once, one that has been in and out of prison. My older sister does have a masters in biology, but I know the family has struggled. My first dad died while my first mom was pregnant with me, I can't imagine what that must have done to all of them. Then placing me... it must have been hell on earth for my first mom.

So was I better off? In some ways probably, and I have always been well aware of that. My mom has always just said my life would have been different, but you know, I think I know better. Now, if my son's parents said that he is better off with them, I would be hurt, because that is a definite case of life would have just been different.

I think you can talk about the choices that a first mom is making that aren't and weren't so great and still be loving about it. Someday your son will be old enough to understand that parts of what are wrong with his first mom are a sickness (I know that doesn't work as a child, but it is an illness of sorts, and someday he'll get that). I think it is important that an adopted person feels like he/she belongs in a family, I felt I always belonged. My mom and dad worked darn hard to get me so I knew I was special to them and to my first mom who made a REALLY hard choice at probably one of the worst times in her life. You are able to provide your son with a healthy life, maybe that is the distinction. Sure healthy is better, but then it isn't framed in those words. You are giving him a healthy life and in the end, hopefully his first mom will be able to get healthy as well.

[BrockBaby]

I haven't read this thread for a day or so...and wow, so much has gone on. There were many points that I agreed with, and some that I didn't.

I did want to say that as a Christian, I don't believe that God dictates our lives...He has given us a free choice. Yes, He may have a will for our lives, but ultimately we choose if we want to listen to His ways and the way He is directing us. I don't know how many times in life I knew what to do, but didn't. I don't know how many times I felt God directing me one way...but went another. Think of Jonah....God directed him one way, but he ran the other...and there were consequences to that action, but in the end He chose to acknowledge what he had done and got back on track. READ THIS..I AM NOT SAYING THAT THAT IS WHAT ANY BIRTHPARENT HAS DONE....but what I am saying, is that EVERYONE has choices. We are not puppets. (Kathy..I was thinking that very thing as I was reading, then saw your post...gmta) I understand that not everyone has the belief or relationship with God that I have...but because it was brought up MANY times, I feel that I needed to put my nickles worth in....this is much more then just two cents! LOL And I have said this before, that at times, people make choices for us...and in that we are responsible for the way we respond, and ultimately that is a choice.

Now...as an adoptee....I had no clue if I was better off being adopted as a child, it's just something that was a part of my life. As an adult I can look back and see that for me, it was better off being adopted. However, like I said before, we make choices, and I can not 100% say that I am "better off" because my bmom may have made different choices had I been in her life....but then she may not have.....I guess when it comes down to it, no matter what the "deal is" as people touched by adoption, we have to sometimes forgo thinking about the what ifs...and what may have beens...and deal with what is. That is NOT to diminish ANYONES pain..or feelings...but if we spend all our time wondering off which is better, how is it helping what is????

[paigeturner]

Originally Posted by belleinblue1978

I did comment that I felt that I made the wrong choice. That has NOTHING to do with my son's parents. They love him and that is all I care about.

I wish I would have been stronger and more sure of myself and less weak and said I can do this without this man who can't see my worth or our son's worth. I wish the agency would have said, you are college educated, you have earning potential, we help women with this stuff all the time, when I asked about getting help.

My feeling pressured has nothing to do with my son's parents, they are not even on my radar when it comes to my anger about the situation.

I also wasn't trying to make anyone feel guilty, but we're all here to learn right? So for some women that meant to be thing is a trigger, just like everyone has triggers. I was commenting on that and that it was nice to hear an aparent say that, when so often that is something that triggers me.

I get this!

Remember, I don’t know what kind of a situation my son grew up in. I hope that he had terrific parents who helped him form into a strong, kind man. I hope he feels like I made the right choice. I hope he loves the life he was given.

I wonder though, should we ever get an opportunity to meet, if he’ll resent the fact that I was a wimp and didn’t fully explore my options. A mere two years after I placed him, I gave birth to my oldest daughter…three years later the youngest was born. My daughters are 23 and 20 now and have had a really nice life, filled with opportunity and love. They are strong, educated women. They’ve had a life surrounded by love and encouragement. They “know” who they are. I can only hope that their older half-brother had the same. But, what if? What if we find that he didn’t?

I hope my son feels like he was “better off” after he meets us. Because if that’s the case he had a great life and became a great man; and that, will make it the right choice after all.

As for adoptive parents feeling guilt over our pain…that is something that I would never want to see. Why feel guilt for something you had no control over? I hope for understanding, not guilt. I believe, at the end of the day, we all want our children to grow up strong and healthy and loved.

[BrockBaby]

Paige, what you said really warmed my heart. I can say, that I grew up strong, healthy, and loved. And I think that what you said, gets to the heart of the matter...