[hrisme]

There was a terrible story on the news today, of a murder-suicide involving two children. Of course, I was horrified, but since it didn't directly affect me I moved on without thinking about it again. Until tonight. I just learned that the man who murdered his girlfriend & two little girls is the biological father of a child adopted by someone very close to me. The baby who was killed is the infant they attempted to adopt, but he wouldn't consent to the adoption and supposedly left the state with the baby. This little girl could have been in a loving home with her brother, and instead she is dead.

My stance on birthparent's rights may be dramatically altered after tonight.

[mom2handq]

Oh, how horrible! I will never understand why someone feels they have to take the lives of innocent children.

[nikkianni]

I am so sorry for these two sweet children, and for your friends, who must also be going through a terrible time over this.
I honestly don't think this speaks to birthparent rights. I think it speaks to the inability of our government to protect its most innocent citizens. There are supposed to be people out there who identify these situations and dangers before this happens. Instead, we give abusive and/or neglectful parents chance after chance to get their act together and only step in when irreversible damage is done.
Sadly, there are countries out there that we consider beneath us who have better programs for fostering, adoption, social work, everything.
IMO, this isn't necessarily a reason to curtail birthparent rights, it's a reason to put our child protective services programs under a microscope.
(Getting down off my soap box)

[Jenn4615]

Oh my, I am so sorry...aweful

[lonni]

I had not heard about these babies;~(( I did hear about the newborn in Vegas found dead. That infant was in a trashcan;~((
It would be nice if we could identify future murdering parents, including those who are approved to foster and adopt.There is an entire despressing website listing tragic cases of adopted and foster children murdered by the people approved to protect them. Maybe there needs to be one for all murdered children as a memorial to the innocents.
What can ever make these murderers take an innocent child's life? Like this man, if he already killed the Mother~~~ETA~~(which is terrible), why kill the kids too? Usually these finks do it to hurt the other parent who is still alive. So SAD.

ETA-killing the Mother was bad enough.

[4everwaiting]

OMG, this is so terrible! I can only imagine the hurt and pain that both familes are having at this time. My heart goes out to your friends...

I agree with Nikkianni- where were social services for this family? Again the innocent suffer!

This news breaks my heart!

S

[gottahavehope]

I can't imagine what your friend must be going through right now. I'm so heartbroken for those poor children.

But, babies always belong with their biological families, right? WHATEVER!!!

[BrandyHagz]

It's so sad when anyone dies at the hands of another. I just hope, this doesn't mold opinions of birth parents...like many adoptive parents don't wish to have the stories of adoptive parents killing their children, mold them.

There will ever be a 'one size fits all' - everyone is unique and different and it saddens me to even see some of these comments.

I wonder how well received a comment about adopting parents would be, if the tables were turned?

[Adopted-B-4]

That really is a sad situation. Honestly though, as terrible as it is, don't let that change your opinion of birthparent rights. For each case like this one, I am sure there are more that have loving homes with their birthparents who decided to parent. Also, in cases where it's an adoptive parent, it bothers me when that is stated because it taints peoples views on adoptive parents too. God bless you and the people close to you that were trying to adopt her. I am sorry.

[lovemy2boys]

Originally Posted by BrandyHagz

I just hope, this doesn't mold opinions of birth parents...

Heavens no. For me, there are two separate components to this sad story...

The first is the pain the adoptive family feels because their son will never know his precious little sister...That is a tragedy.

The second is the pain everyone feels because of the sick and disturbed thing this mad did.

To me, although intertwined, the fact that he was a birthfather doesn't color my views of birthparents.

However, I understand where this family and those close to them (such as the OP ) is coming from from their own personal aspect - that this child could have had a good life as opposed to having it cut short.

Am I making any sense?

[Saya]

Originally Posted by lovemy2boys

Heavens no. For me, there are two separate components to this sad story...

The first is the pain the adoptive family feels because their son will never know his precious little sister...That is a tragedy.

The second is the pain everyone feels because of the sick and disturbed thing this mad did.

To me, although intertwined, the fact that he was a birthfather doesn't color my views of birthparents.

However, I understand where this family and those close to them (such as the OP ) is coming from from their own personal aspect - that this child could have had a good life as opposed to having it cut short.

Am I making any sense?

I generally agree with you, but I want to make the point that he WASN'T a birthfather. He was her father. He was a father who was also a monster and killed his girlfriend and his children. Sadly, stories like these - of parents (through birth OR adoption) who abuse or neglect or even kill their children - are all too common. But this has nothing to do with "birthparents" or even adoption per se - except that in this particular case it's a terrible shame that the system didn't realize what kind of a father he was and remove the child from his custody.

Still, it's a terrible, sad, and shocking case, and I totally understand how OP's friends much be devastated. My heart goes out to them.

[lovemy2boys]

Originally Posted by Saya

I generally agree with you, but I want to make the point that he WASN'T a birthfather. He was her father. He was a father who was also a monster and killed his girlfriend and his children. Sadly, stories like these - of parents (through birth OR adoption) who abuse or neglect or even kill their children - are all too common. But this has nothing to do with "birthparents" or even adoption per se - except that in this particular case it's a terrible shame that the system didn't realize what kind of a father he was and remove the child from his custody.

Still, it's a terrible, sad, and shocking case, and I totally understand how OP's friends much be devastated. My heart goes out to them.

No - I know he wasn't this child's birthfather - you are absolutely right. I said he was a birthfather, because he is so to the child that he had placed (the one mentioned in the OP).

That's why I said that I can see why this family and their friends view him as such, but for me, I don't know this man as a birthfather per se, so my view of birthparents isn't changed because of this tragedy.

[Saya]

Originally Posted by lovemy2boys

No - I know he wasn't this child's birthfather - you are absolutely right. I said he was a birthfather, because he is so to the child that he had placed (the one mentioned in the OP).

That's why I said that I can see why this family and their friends view him as such, but for me, I don't know this man as a birthfather per se, so my view of birthparents isn't changed because of this tragedy.

You're totally right - I misunderstood what you were saying. Sorry!

[4everwaiting]

Birth parent or Adoptive parent the last word describes them most... PARENT! I want to believe that most people would not look at one persons actions and label the entire group... I know I haven't.

Its just heartbreaking to know that rather than spare the lives of his family by placing them or doing harm to himself alone, he took their lives as well!

This person obviously was disturbed and in need of assistance.

I know the families of this person as well as the family that tried to adopt the sibling are in pain right now- I'm sure I would be... The questions, the wondering what if and the not knowing in general are hard.

My prayers are with them at this time!

S

[hrisme]

Originally Posted by hrisme

My stance on birthparent's rights may be dramatically altered after tonight.

I should have specified further what my "stance" on birthparent's rights are--actually, thought I was posting this to another board where that stance is well-known.

In the past, I have been seen as an "extremist" when it come to "birth" father's rights. In fact, my general opinion is/was that the biological father of a child should have as much right to custody as the biological mother, unless proven that there is a reason he should not have custody--preferably by the same process of termination of parental rights required to remove any child from a home. This opinion has been based on my experience with a "birth" father who was ready & willing to step in to raise his son (and was certainly NOT abusive), but the baby was placed WITHOUT his consent, for adoption. There have been several of these cases lately.

In fact, with this situation I was initially supportive of his decision to raise the child. I didn't have all the facts, nothing about his history of abuse & violence (the authorities didn't have this history either, as nobody had the courage to press charges for domestic violence, even though they were concerned their hands were tied because of lack of evidence). Obviously, I never dreamed the situation would end this way.

Now I'm leaning towards not giving the birth father custody if there is a history of violence or domestic abuse--but, here again, we hit the problem of how do we determine if there really is a risk of domestic violence. If we increase "birth" father's rights, but make exceptions for incidences of domestic violence, what is to stop those individuals who simply don't want to identify the father from claiming they are victims of domestic violence?

I'm not making any judgments about birth parents in general, in fact anyone who knows my stance on adoption knows that I actually believe that every possible option for raising a child should be exhausted before adoption becomes a possibility. This would have been assumed, if I'd posted it on the right board, had I been in my right mind last night I would have worded things better! The fact that he had another child placed for adoption has not been brought into the picture, and for the sake of my friends & their son I hope it is not revealed.