[KarenSo]

Hello Everyone,

Looking for some help with a food problem. We have had a beautiful boy in our custody for two months, our plan is to adopt him in July. The issue is with food and it is really becoming difficult because he cries so much over it. Here is some history:

- born to a 15 year old mother with a 23 year old boyfriend: taken from home at 6 months old for neglect - went to day care dirty and with moldy bottles

- spent 3 months in pre-adoptive home until the father got sick and they gave him back to social services with the promise to get him back when the father was better

- spent 10 months with what appears to be a wonderful foster family, they have been fostering for 30 years, have 4 adoptive children in addition to 4 birth and 10 adoptive grandchildren in addition to 11 birth. Never saw Mom or Dad during this 10 months and did not see previous pre-adoptive parents. Although they did want him back after 9 months but DSS said no since they made no effort to see him.

- came to us at 19 months old. We have a 4 1/2 yead old birth child.

B cannot get enough food. If he sees us so much as take a vitamin he goes into a crying frenzy because he wants it. Dinner and snack times have become an incredible chore. He cries and cries when he sees us cooking because he wants the food now, we have tried keeping him out of the kitchen but he is just inconsolable. If he hears paper rustling he comes running and gets very upset if it is not food. When his meal is complete he throws a tantrum wanting more, even after he has eaten more than enough for a child his age. If you cut up his food, he screams and throws it at us and won't eat it. He won't share at all, we can't help him feed himself if more is falling on the floor than getting in his mouth and, he can have a plate full of food and see us with a saltine and scream his head off because he wants the saltine. I think you get the message.

He also tends to put so much food in his mouth that he chokes, if he can't finish what is on his plate, he chews it and spits it out, every single of piece of food that is left. When you give him food, he takes a bite out of every single piece on his plate before he will eat - marking his territory so to speak. Often, he will chew his food and leave it in his cheeks or pressed to the roof of his mouth and try to make an escape before we can see whether or not he has swallowed. I know this is a control issue but we really don't know how to handle this.

It has become so difficult because he cries so much because food is such an integral part of life. Our birth child thinks we are somehow abusing B. Can anyone offer any insight?

Thanks!

Karen

[2manyks]

this is advice from an expert from a seminar i went to last oct. first of all they say there is nothing you can do about food. the solution is to put a plastic container in their bedroom - under their bed or in their closet - where they want it. keep it full, all day everyday. crackers, grapes, m&m's, twinkies. sugar is a comfort food. everytime you see it getting low, fill it back up. eventually he will see that he is NEVER going to go without food again. the problem will get better. maybe not completely go away, but it will get better. never make an issue about it.

[jojobear]

When our son came home as a foster child at 17 months, he would stuff his mouth so full of food he would choke and throw up and then try to eat more. ( i know gross) We asked specialist after specialist. This is my child that can eat and have a bloated belly and still cry frantically for more. We were at our wits ends. Until I decided to lock all the cabinets and refrigerator. I locked everything with the exception of on cabinet and I filled that will healthy snacks and kid friendly stuff. I allowed him access to that cabinet no matter what and when he wanted it. He is now 4 1/2, he still has this cabinet however hardly uses it. It was a comfort to him to be able to access food when ever he felt he needed too. It was a pain in the butt, however he knew that there would always be food. he was always so afraid of someone taking it or not feeding him. Sometimes now we still have issues with food. Therapist say it may be a life long battle. However it does get better. he has to trust that there will be food.

I wish you luck. It will get better. I can't imagine what some of these poor babies go through. To know hunger and not know where your next meal will come from or what is will be is terrible, then to have to trust an adult that they will give it to you is hard. I would guess there may be some attachment/trust issues going on too.

Jody

[JGarrick]

There are threads on the Special Needs & Attachment forum about food issues pretty regularly. The answers above are similar to what I've seen there a few times, but you could poke around in the archives there if you want to explore it further.

[Forever_family]

I have a very similar problem with our newly place foster/adopt baby who is only 12 months old. He was obsessed with his bottle but has transferred it to food since he has been in our home. I still give him a bottle for attachment reasons, but only 6 oz twice a day while I am holding him. The transition off of the bottle/baby food happend around placement as at his foster home he was eating only baby food and drinking formula. So I worry it was a bad time to transition him but he was so ready for real food. He was 18 pounds at 3 months old upon placement in foster care. H ewas placed due to neglect. I was told that his weight was never off of the charts, he was in the 98% at 3 months and is now in the 70%. His foster mom essentially put him on her own diet-as a 3 month old baby-and his weight leveled off to the point that they thought something was wrong with his thyroid. Foster mom described to me he would scream to eat until he would vomit she immediatly put him on a strict feeding schedule. She explains that he would scream for hours between feedings and was obsessed with his bottle. He was 19 pounds at his 12 month check up. His behavior is very similar to what you are explaning. It is so hard to eat or prepare food with him in the room. It's a constant battle and he is only 12 months old. I am hoping it will get better.

I asked our Pediatrician and she said to let him eat as much healthy food as he wants without making himself sick. So thats what we are doing. When he starts to spit up (he doesn't vomit) I stop feeding him. He has gained 3 pounds in 3 weeks. He still is on the low end of his charts on his weight. I really don't know about the baby diet his foster mom had him on...but I think her intentions were well meaning. My kids have always been chubby. She's a very thin women and she explained to me that he was an "obese" baby and "disgusting." So I sort of feel she was overly zelous with the food restriction.

I ONLY give him whole grain foods, lots of good fruits and vegetables and mostly lean protein. NO junk food. I figure as much as he loves the good stuff there is no reason to give him the bad. I was told that he should outgrow his food obession when he feels he can have as much food as he wants and that it will always be there but he may always struggle with food/comfort issues.

I would ask your pediatrician even ask for a referral-it can't hurt. I plan on asking for one if this isn't resolved by next well/baby check.

[hml1976]

Our daughter had a similiar issue, adopted at 9mths from Kazakhstan. She could eat 3 large jars of baby food without stopping when she first came home. Our ped gave the same advice as the previous poster. Let him eat as much as he wants of healthy food, give him control over it (my daughter can always have a small bowl of cheerios or raisins) and don't make a big deal about it.

Good luck! at 2.5 my daughter still eats well but often is "ALL DONE" too where that never used to be the case

[ChristieS]

Originally Posted by 2manyks

under their bed or in their closet - where they want it. keep it full, all day everyday. crackers, grapes, m&m's, twinkies. sugar is a comfort food. everytime you see it getting low, fill it back up. eventually he will see that he is NEVER going to go without food again. the problem will get better. maybe not completely go away, but it will get better. never make an issue about it.

Having previous counseling experience with children, I have dealt with this issue before with foster parents. I won't go into the underlying issues - but I also recommend creating a place your son can readily access. Depending on his weight and nutritional needs I would provide a container for him that he knows is his and fill it with (preferably) healthy food.

In my house we have a low kitchen cabinet which has been designated as my son's and which he can access as desired. We also have the bottom of the refrigerator which is his. I also set out food on the table - bananas, apples, etc. which he can have any time, and I keep his favorite drinks either in the fridge or one the table.

IMO your son needs to know that food is always there, always available - and HE is in control of his eating. I don't allow food anywhere but the kitchen or as a snack outside (obvious reasons - ants being one), but I do make sure there is no shortage.

It will take him some time. You may need to watch his weight and caloric intake - creating healthy food alternatives. We always keep apples, bananas, carrots, etc. handy and available. But I also let me son have however many cookies and such, just because for him they are not a big deal and he eats plenty of healthy food.

What has worked in the past for some kids I have worked with is exactly what 2manyks said. And when it becomes a non-issue he should be able to let it go. It will, however, first have to be a non-issue for you. Make sense?

JMO so take it for what it's worth. I hope you find what works for both of you.

Blessings to you,

CS

[Forever_family]

Would this rule apply to a 13 month old toddler? Should I have a supply of food where he can reach it at all times? He already eats until he spits up.

L

[ChristieS]

Originally Posted by Forever_family

Would this rule apply to a 13 month old toddler? Should I have a supply of food where he can reach it at all times? He already eats until he spits up.

L

IMO - No. This child is pre-verbal and the minimum age I worked with was post-verbal, so I am not sure.

You have probably already done this - but have you had a complete checkup by the pediatrician to determine any deficiencies? Sometimes a child may be lacking in protein, iron, a vitamin, etc. and is eating in an attempt to fulfill that requirement. For example, if an adult craves a peanut butter sandwich, it may be the body's way of getting more protein. Or a craving for bananas may indicate potassium. Pediatricians may not regularly run this level of testing - so it would be a good idea just to have extra tests run.

Also, a child who eats until they spit up *might* create a metabolic problem, or a digestion problem - through the vomiting. This can become cyclical, and could create the above problems.

Also, this could be indicative of a digestion problem which might need to be explored.

I wish I had some more advice for you. This is really tough because your child is unable to regulate his eating and you may have to do that for him.

My only other suggestion is to keep out very healthy food (IF he is not prone to overeating them) - things he may not like so much but will eat if really hungry. If he LOVES grapes (cut up really tiny of course) then I would not put those out. If he will eat apple pieces, but only if he is really hungry and not because he is overly fond of them, then you can try that. You will need to watch him very carefully of course to determine if there is ANY healthy food he will eat but not overindulge.

Oh - also, is it possible he is allergic to milk? Or apple juice? Something else to consider.

MY most important recommendation is your pediatrician. And the doctor may be able to offer some more suggestions for you. If so you may want to post them for others who are having this problem.

I am always concerned about very young children who exhibit these tendencies. Please let me know how he is doing.

[Sleepydream]

My daughter exhibited the same behavior when placed with us from foster care at 9 months. It never occurred to me that the foster providers could have been the cause of this behavior (she was placed with them at birth), but was at a loss to explain why she was showing the same issues with food as some of my own fc who had been severely neglected/abused. Is this common in foster providers? You said you wouldn't get into the underlying causes, but I would be really interested to hear them if you wouldn't mind. As a former fp myself I am very disturbed to hear that.

[MamaS]

My daughter came from El Salvador at age 4. She had experienced lack of food and she was also a hoarder. To this day (20 years later) she keeps a candy bar in her purse at all times. It may be there six months without being eaten, but she gets stressed if she doesn't have one.
My 4-year-old adopted son was removed for neglect. Although he has been with me for over two years, he also still has food issues. I gave him a drawer in the refrigerator, which I keep filled with yogurt cups, applesauce cups, cheese sticks, pbj sandwich rounds, etc. He is allowed to have anything he wants from his drawer at any time (EXCEPT when we are about to get in the car). For the car we have packages of goldfish. He is slowly losing his food obsessions and can defer food if I tell him that "supper will be ready in 5 minutes".

[ChristieS]

Originally Posted by MamaS

I gave him a drawer in the refrigerator, which I keep filled with yogurt cups, applesauce cups, cheese sticks, pbj sandwich rounds, etc. He is allowed to have anything he wants from his drawer at any time (EXCEPT when we are about to get in the car). For the car we have packages of goldfish. He is slowly losing his food obsessions and can defer food if I tell him that "supper will be ready in 5 minutes".

Yogurt,cheese sticks and applesauce are also great alternatives which I also use.

Sleepydream - the children I worked with were neglected and abused so I only have experience in that area. Considering that, yes, when children, even as very small infants, were deprived food, and/or given formula which their system could not tolerate, and/or forced to eat even when not hungry, and/or given rice cereal, adult foods, etc. before their digestive systems had developed well enough to tolerate it - then these issues tended to create food problems. Even very small infants who were not appropriately fed (and by that I mean force-fed or went hungry) could be found to have problems with food - even though they were unable to "remember".

Sometimes food would turn into a control issue where the child learned that they could use food to upset or please their parent or parent-figure and would use that to their advantage. For example, if they are angry, and they know it makes "Mom" angry when child refuses to eat - then the child may refuse to eat in order to express frustration, get attention, or make the parent (or parent-figure) angry.

But I saw this most often when a parent neglected to feed their child and the child would literally starve at times. I can't imagine what it must be like to be at the complete mercy of someone to survive, know that they have food/formula/whatever, be starving, yet not fed. The worst case I saw was where a child was eating VERY nasty things to survive.

But this is not to say that there could not be an underlying medical problem. That is why I stress so strongly getting specific medical attention in this area.

In essence, a child may feel like there is never enough food, if deprived of food early on. Or a child may use food as a control issue, or to gain attention. Children who went starving can usually be helped with CBT (such as allowing them the control over their food) - but it does take time. Parent figures can control how much "control" the child takes with food, by making it a non-issue.

This can be fairly complicated, but I have tried to answer as best I can. It is really an individual issue and needs to be treated as such.

I hope I helped a little.

[akcskye]

Thank you for this thread.

My 9 and 11 year olds have a "lighter" form of these issues, I believe...I say "lighter" because though it does seem kind of "greedy", they've gotten better.

I think my kids were neglected in the food dept...they love raw spaghetti and burnt food. I kind of think their mom didn't know how to cook and that might be how they ate, say, when gas or electric was off?

They are still in the "not trash b-mom" mode right now, and though I never want them to "trash her"...eventually they will learn that her choices were poor, and to not try to put her in the light they do now (if she was as great as they say, then why are they ours, you know?)...but I'm sure as they learn and observe more of a functional family, I will learn more.

But, I do let them have an abundance of healthy food...carrots and ranch, low fat cottage cheese, and the like without having to ask.

BUT, their hangup seems to be soda pop. It was so out of hand that we had to enforce a "one pop a day" limit...when they came for the weekend the first time, they drank a 12 pack in 2 days (though it was Diet, I still didn't like they consumed so much)...and hubby and I didn't keep track because we were all having fun and getting to know each other.

But, they make it such an issue...what could be up with that? I know when I was a little girl, a soda was a *MAYBE* once a week priviledge that I didn't ask for often, I preferred my water.

Anyone else experience this?

[ChristieS]

Originally Posted by akcskye

BUT, their hangup seems to be soda pop. It was so out of hand that we had to enforce a "one pop a day" limit...
But, they make it such an issue...what could be up with that?

Who doesn't love it? Especially the regular kind: sweet, bubbly, caffeine and energy - WOW! I wish I could drink all the soda I want.

Two ideas: caffeine is addictive. Ever try to go without it for a few days and get a terrible headache? UGH! Also, you said "they make it such an issue." That is what caught my attention.

*Please understand I am not a physician.* I was a children's counselor but still claim no expertise. I do hope to be able to help - but do not want to come across as some sort of "expert" or "know-it-all" because I am not.

My experience says that when older children create an issue out of something then it is the parents (or, again, parent-figures) who are allowing it to be an issue. My recommendation is not fun. JMHO - and this is only one idea - take it out of the picture. Of course, that means for the whole family. It becomes a non-issue because it is simply not there and not bought. That means everyone in the family has to give it up, I know, and feels like a punishment to the parents - BUT it can stop the issue in it's tracks.

One time I implemented a "no T.V." rule. It had gotten out of hand with both my children. My husband was not happy and my 18-year-old Goddaughter got caught sneaking T.V. time - so I loaded the T.V. up and put it in the trunk of my car. But it didn't take long before everyone in the house realized that we were not going to have T.V. at all if violent programs were watched. The end. No more. After a while we had a family meeting (and yes, even my four-year-old attended) where we discussed T.V. rules.

Anyway - back to the point. YOU control the issue - whatever it is. If that means no soda - at all - and no whining, fussing, or complaining will change it - then it is not there as a control issue. However - be forewarned that sometimes when that stops working kids will choose something else to test you on. Ah well... the joys of parenthood.

Again, this is just what *I* would do. I'm sure there are others with different and better ideas.

Good luck - the teenage years are up and coming.

[akcskye]

Oh no, no problem at all.

That's the one thing we're fortunate about, and I should've put in the post...it's either Diet Mug Root Beer or Diet Sprite (no caffeine in either). that what they like is caffeine free.

So, for that, some people ask me why do I care...and the reason I do care is that it can start unhealthy dietary habits, IMO.

Hubby and I have caffeinated soda, and we do not drink coffee (something their birth family let them do!!! egads!!!) once a morning and they know it's off limits and that I DO monitor it.

Their overall issue that spilled over to the soda pop was sneaking food/lying about how much they ate, and so soda was next to sneak, I think...haha

I do know in their other placements, soda was a priviledge, so I was just baffled why it became such an issue here...if you don't have it and "don't need it", then why need it here, you know?

But, now, we go to Sam's Club and buy PLENTY of bottled water (our tap just doesn't taste right) and Fruit20, and the soda issue is declining as is the food.

I do have one question though, KIND of off topic.

These 2 kids are the youngest kids in the family...we haven't had kids in the family for over 15 years.

I do NOT remember eating as much as they do when I was their age, and they eat more than me now, and I'm a 220 lb vegetarian (I only eat one meal, maybe 2, NO lie) a day.

My weight is from hormones rather than food overindulgence...but is it normal for kids to seemingly be hungry ALL the time when AMPLY fed?