[Forever_family]

Thank you for the reply to my question about my 13 month old recently placed foster adopt baby. I have taken him to the Pediatrician and gone over his food issues. I was told not to make it an issue and feed him healthy foods until he is clearly full/spitting up. I wanted tos ay thank you thank you thank you for what you wrote to Sleepydream! I know for sure his bio-mom put cereal in his bottle from birth-3 months old, just figured this out at our WIC recertification, his mom told them she was putting cereal in his bottle at birth and I would imagine overfeeding him as he was 18 pounds at 3 months and at 12 months he was 19 pounds. I am fairly certain this early intro of ceral may have caused his reflux issues and eating problems. I plan on going over this with his Pediatrician at next visit because it was not in any of his medical that his birth mom had given him cereal from birth. Also his foster mom, who did not cause his eating issues, severely limited/regulated his food and to him I'm sure it felt like deprevation.

"Sleepydream - the children I worked with were neglected and abused so I only have experience in that area. Considering that, yes, when children, even as very small infants, were deprived food, and/or given formula which their system could not tolerate, and/or forced to eat even when not hungry, and/or given rice cereal, adult foods, etc. before their digestive systems had developed well enough to tolerate it - then these issues tended to create food problems. Even very small infants who were not appropriately fed (and by that I mean force-fed or went hungry) could be found to have problems with food - even though they were unable to "remember"."

[KarenSo]

Thank you so much for all of the feedback and information! It just gets so crazy and we don't know what to do. Tonight we found him hiding in our bedroom eating a leftover cracker that our older son left on the kitchen table. Typically he would just eat in front of us. I fear that we may have made this a little worse because we did make such a big deal of it. It is so hard to back off because he is so crazy when it comes to food and we get so frustrated with the tantrums. But we are all trying.

I just find it so hard to believe that a child so young could have such a problem. The foster mom and our social worker thought we were crazy when we told them how bad it has gotten. They said that a child that young can't remember food issues to have a problem. Glad we are not crazy!!

We are going to love him and support him as much as possible and hope we can make it better.

He seems to have some attachment issues to, when he gets mad, he hits himself and runs from us. He will NOT run to us. We try to cuddle him when angry or sad and he wants none of it. He wants to hit himself, throw things and hide in a corner. It's so sad. We do pick him up and hold him and try to let him see we are not mad at him and that we are going to love him and cuddle him. It's so crazy that he is so young and so full of problems.

What really confuses me most is that he spent 10 months in what is supposed to be one of the "best" foster families around, yet he still has such issues. Am I expecting too much of the foster parents or of him?

[joskids]

We had a foster son that came at 14 mos. from the only previous foster home he had known since birth. She was also supposed to be a great foster mother (until they quickly removed the kids because the feeling is that they were left in their room together for long periods of time and he was just given bottles in bed to quiet him. Talk about EATING ISSUES!!! Anyone who doesn't "believe you" is an idiot. These issues wore me down so much. He would SCREAM for food and had clearly had enough to eat. We were firm, fed him what he needed and did not give in. We turned his highchair toward the wall and walked out of the room and let him scream. I know this seems cruel to some but he's now with a wonderful adoptive family and doing very well. We just had he and his sister to dinner and saw no more eating issues. I don't think it's right to just GIVE IN to a child that is hoarding and gorging himself but that's my 2 cents and I know many won't agree. I DO KNOW how difficult it was for me with him and would clearly understand anyone who needed to vent to me about it if they were having similar issues. Caseworkers should be aware of these issues and more sympathetic.

[jojobear]

joskids,

Unfortunately in the state I live in there would be no way we could do that with out it being considered abusive. I am not saying that what you did was right or wrong I am just saying what the state would say.

i do need to tell you "giving in" to a child's needs to be fed is building trust in them that Yes there will be food, yes you will feed them and No they will not run out of food. I am sorry to say that many children who do not have access to food will turn to eating Non food items.
I know this because mine was one of them. When they eat dirt, sand, paper, kitty litter, grass, paint, bark, the crib, shirts, diapers any thing they can bite with their little teeth and rip apart they will if they feel they are not going to eat.

I am sorry if my post sounds harsh, i don't mean it too. I am glad that turning your foster son to a wall and letting him scream worked for you. But can you tell me how long did you let him scream? Were you in the same room with him while he screamed? Did the caseworkers and therapist know this is what was occurring? I am just curious about those things.

Just my opinions
Jody

[joskids]

Jody, this child had more going on than food issues. He was extremely manipulative and I will not allow ANY CHILD to do that in my home. I never abused this child. He was well fed and always had healthy food to eat. He was HUGE when he came to me, MUCH TOO LARGE for his age. When he left, he was much healthier and much better behaved and was able to make a smooth transition to his new home - who also does not give in to the screaming tantrums. We were in the next room or same room. We turned his highchair away so that he would not get attention, the same I would do to any child who acted like that, keep them near me, but do not give them attention when they manipulate. He was held, loved, cuddled and well cared for in our home. I had caseworkers in and out of this home constantly because of delays and gave him STRONG RESOURCES in many different therapists and early intervention. I'm sorry you don't agree with me. Obviously we all parent differently. My children are respectful and much loved. We teach them how to survive in this world and not to think the world owes them something. We teach them to be responsible. We are considered excellent parents by all who know us. We believe in setting rules when a child first comes into a home, letting them know what they can and cannot do. When a child is doing the right thing, he is praised and praised and praised. And that's what we did for this little boy. He has become a wonderful 3 year old and we take pride in what we gave him in this home -- a sense of being responsible and of consequences.

Just my opinions.

[ChristieS]

Originally Posted by joskids

I don't think it's right to just GIVE IN to a child that is hoarding and gorging himself

I think the key here, Josie, is that hoarding and gorging are issues which simply must be dealt with. To quote myself: "It is really an individual issue and needs to be treated as such."

I'm not sure what you mean by "giving in" other than if you meant setting limits and keeping them at whatever expense (his screaming, etc.). I can't say I agree with you - but your response appeared to have worked with this child.

I don't consider providing ample nutricious food "giving in" but hoarding food is something which, IMO, can not be tolerated as it can create health issues. Further, if you have a child who gorges to the point of vomiting then IMO you can not allow them to do that as it can become a health danger to the child. Therefore limits would become a necessity.

Certainly, I repeat, this needs to be addressed individually and with the aid of a physician.

JMHO

[joskids]

Christie, by "giving in" I meant to give a child what he/she wants when he/she screams and raves. Positive reinforcement that fits the behavior, praising for good behavior, ignoring (when possible) the negative behavior. I think it's much worse to give a child food whenever he/she screams for it (causing health and emotional problems that will last a lifetime). But, of COURSE, always providing adequate and appropriate nutrition as a child learns more positive eating habits. And ALWAYS providing hugs and kisses, particularly after the behavior has calmed down so that a child learns that appropriate bonding is through hugs and kisses instead of screaming that is given in to. We did a lot of eye contact games with this child as he would avoid my eyes every chance he could. When he looked me in the eyes, he got lots of positive reinforcement, sometimes even with non-healthy treats like M & M's. For him it worked. That's about it. Remember, this particular child was removed from a foster home where she gave him NO POSITIVE ATTENTION but, instead, supplied him with one bottle after another so that she did not have to pay physical and emotional attention to him. I was left with the outcome and a very big job and feel that we did the best we could with THIS SITUATION, just as you said, Christie. Every child is different. How I would respond to a child who had NO FOOD GIVEN (and I've had this also, kids who ate off the street) would be very different, obviously. I certainly never had a child in my home that ate kitty litter or non-food items. In that case, I would have gone to a nutrition specialist at Children's Hospital.

[traceyk]

Since Drihan is only in the 3% for weight die to being a preemie and having food allergies, we let her graze all day as she wants to. She has never over eaten. She will have a rice cake or a small snack size box of raisins and will be fine. Then in a hour she might want grapes or a kiwi. I would try letting him graze and see what he does. Also, does he still take a bottle? You could try getting a supplemental nursing system or lactaid and breast feed him. That will help with the bonding and there are a LOT of women who have done this with even older babies (3 and 4 years old) and have had success. Have you also tried co-sleeping? I attribute a lot of our bonding due to the breastfeeding and co-sleeping as well as her being a newborn when she came into our lives. We still co-sleep.

[ChristieS]

Originally Posted by joskids

We did a lot of eye contact games with this child as he would avoid my eyes every chance he could.

Wow Josie - sounds like you did really great with this kid.

The sentence on eye contact caught my eye (pun) - because eye contact is an indicator of attachment and attachment-related disorders. Obviously you already know that since you worked on that with him.

I did not think I could ever be any more impressed by you - but you WOW! me all the time!!!!!!!

[jojobear]

First and foremost I want to apologize to joskids. i didn't mean to make it sound like I was attacking you as a person or your ways of parenting, yes we all parent very differently and that is not to say if one way is right or wrong. I am very glad that the child you had turned out wonderful. For that CONGRATS and GOODWORK. I just got a little offensive to know that people see the way we dealt with things as Giving in and wrong. I do not give into my son. Everything everyday is a battle. I just choose not to battle him with food to make it a life long battle.

Secondly I want to tell everyone. Please see the doctor and therapist for these issues. Caseworkers will say and do almost anything and a lot of the time they blow you off as your reading into issues. Please if you know in your heart that something is not right, or just a little off with the child in your home. Do what you would do for them no different then a child you gave birth to. They deserve that from all parents. Love and Care.

Just my opinion
Jody

[hml1976]

Please try and find a good attachment therapist in your area. Food issues are one thing but he sounds like he has more serious attachment problems. Good luck!

[joskids]

Jody, I so agree. This is not easy stuff to figure out (not that anything our kids do is easy to figure out, birth kids OR adopted kids). But the child I discussed definitely had attachment issues due to being left with his 5 year old sister in a bedroom while foster mom slept. GEESH, I absolutely HATE these bad-foster parent stories because it makes the rest of us look horrible also. With him I had to figure out what the biggest issue was and, at times, I HAD to let him cry it out or he would have manipulated me to my grave. I'm also glad he's doing so well now as it's tough never being certain. He doesn't even try to manipulate his new mommy and daddy but they are experienced adoptive parents and I'm so happy he's with the best family possible. We are lucky to be able to see these kids still and let them know how much we love and miss them. But I've got to admit, the SCREAMING for his own way -- I DO NOT MISS. I deeply feel for anyone dealing with attachment and eating issues. It's so sad for the child to spend the rest of his or her life trying to get over them. We all need to stick together and help each other. I love that Drihan co-sleeps with you, Tracey, but I am just not into co-sleeping. We have 4 kids. There wouldn't be ANY time (or room) left for the two of us. Our kids are all in bed by 8:00 and the rest of the evening (until mommy falls asleep on the couch as soon as she sits for a moment) is ours as a couple. I do think for some families, it works very well.

Christie, you are too kind. I'm never certain that how I handle things is the best way possible, but I do the best I can with what I've got and just hope that I make a difference, even just a little one, in the lives of these children.

[tomandcate]

Originally Posted by KarenSo

He seems to have some attachment issues to, when he gets mad, he hits himself and runs from us. He will NOT run to us. We try to cuddle him when angry or sad and he wants none of it. He wants to hit himself, throw things and hide in a corner. It's so sad. We do pick him up and hold him and try to let him see we are not mad at him and that we are going to love him and cuddle him. It's so crazy that he is so young and so full of problems.

Just a thought...we had the same problem with our eldest son, who was adopted at birth, and it started around 16-18 months. Whenever he got mad he would throw himself down on all fours and repeatedly bang his forehead into the floor. It scared the living daylights out of me, but I learned it is pretty normal for this age, especially when their lives are in transition (we were going through a move from one state to another...DH was living in the new state already and we stayed behind to sell the house...then we lived in corporate apartment for 2+ months...then moved to the new house...lots of change for a little one!).

As far as handling those angry tantrums, the advice I read was to just walk away and not give him any attention. This was the opposite of what I'd been doing, because it terrified me to see him about to bust his head open - it was all hardwood and cement floors! So when he started the head-banging I would walk into the next room. Then when he started crying from the pain I would come back and say, "I'm sorry. I know you are mad, but that is not the way to show it. You can tell me you're mad instead of hurting your head."

I also learned that I needed to transition him, i.e. give him notice ahead of time what was coming next..."In 10 minutes we're going to go take a bath," or "You can throw the ball 3 more times and then we're going to go inside." His outbursts, in particular, seemed to go hand-in-hand with having to come in from playing, or stop playing to eat, or go somewhere he didn't want to go...and up until this point he had been the most cooperative little fella you could imagine.

Within one week of using these two techniques, the head-banging completely disappeared. Part of the problem is they are too young to verbalize, so they show their anger/frustration/emotion through physical means. You might even try sign language with him...I believe it really helped Sam to realize he could communicate with us before he could form the words with his mouth.

Good luck...I just wanted to offer a suggestion that while this hitting himself thing may be an attachment issue, it might also be just that normal "frustration" stage they go through while searching for some control of their environment and while learning to communicate.

Cate

[joskids]

Cate, the "giving notice" also works well with kids with ADHD. The transition thing . . . for some kids it's easier than for others. I can't imagine how hard it was for you to walk away from a child banging his head on the floor but I'm glad it worked for you. I had a child that used to wet herself whenever she was angry at me (this came out at ME after she had a visit with MOM -- so you get my drift here). OK, pee on the rug is really NBD but I've got others kids and it's not likely particularly sanitary. My friend told me to "give her permission to pee on herself" and she was RIGHT. It actually stopped. I told her "you know what? Go ahead and pee all over yourself whenever you want. You can then help me clean it up and then we'll put a pull-up on and you can wear that to school tmw". She did it once more, I called the teacher and explained why the pull up the next day. She never did it again. Whew!!!

[sunflower1220]

Cate, I found what you did for your son so interesting, and smart.

As a tempertantrum induced seizures child I think honestly (I can say this now as an adult lol) that had my mom done that it would have saved them and myself TONS of grief. If I didn't get my way I would throw myself on the floor, hold my breath, and kick and bang my head until I induced seizures, which my parents then had to rush me to the ER. I did this until I was 5!! My parents tried blowing in my face to get me to stop, tried picking me up, only to be kicked, spanked to high heavens, and many other ways, only for nothing to work. Maybe had they thought to not give in and give me the attention I wanted, which really only escalated the problem I wouldn't have put them in the poor house with 2-3 ER trips, and hospitalizations weekly!

I realize lots of people will not agree with you, or me, but I'm speaking from personal experience, and I think sometimes you do just have to walk away and say "OK, you can do that if you want, but I will not be here to watch and support you doing it. I'm also sorry if in the process you hurt yourself, and yes I'll be here when you are thru to doctor you up, but if that's what you need to calm down, so be it."

That's just my experience and thoughts.