[JGarrick]

Originally Posted by dawnrenee58

In my opinion, people need to reconcile their infertility, and get over it before adopting. Otherwise, there will always be a "second choice" feeling with your adoption. Kind of like you had to settle for this because what you really wanted was not available.

But it is a second choice, isn't it? How many of the couples that come to adoption after dealing with infertility would have adopted anyway? No doubt there are many, but there are probably many more who would not have adopted if they had been able to get pregnant and deliver a child. Reconciling with infertility, whatever that means, may be healthy, but so is accepting the reality that adoption is a "second choice" for many people. I don't think there's anything wrong with that. Second choice doesn't have to mean second best.

Along the same lines, and I address this to eveyone now, I think it would be helpful to all if people weren't quite so quick to judge every word and find ways to take offense. It's gotten to the point where it's almost impossible to make simple statements because there's so much baggage attached to adoption terminology. In this thread, quite a few people reacted to the word "those."

I mean no disrespect to our moderator - it's a difficult and quite often thankless job. While I agree that we should all use supportive language and be respectful, I think we could all use a little bit thicker skin, as well, and try to find a way to take each statement at face value and not try to find offense or disrespect in it. Perhaps this isn't the proper place to discuss appropriate etiquitte, but when discussions get heated, rationality tends to take leave, and what could be a useful exchange of differing opinions quickly degrades to bickering.

[crick]

sure...second choice doesn't mean second best...I agree with that.

I think the "those" comment...it can definitely be offensive. But that's why I would rather ask where someone is coming from on it and perhaps point out how it can sound too. kwim?

I think my skin is thick...but doesn't mean I feel we need to just let things slide either. Part of the purpose of these boards is education. If I'm using a word or term that could be offensive, I would rather someone point it out to me. Just my thought...

[Vogi2002]

Originally Posted by dawnrenee58

I am a little concerned when people say they would never adopt if they were not infertile. I feel sorry for the child they will eventually adopt! What if your child was to find this page, somewhere in cyberspace, and see that they were second choice? In my opinion, people need to reconcile their infertility, and get over it before adopting. Otherwise, there will always be a "second choice" feeling with your adoption. Kind of like you had to settle for this because what you really wanted was not available. And, what if something happens to you like to me? What if you do end up pregnant after your adoption is complete?
When you adopt, you need to do it with your whole heart, with no regrets or what ifs. Your future child deserves it, because although you have chosen adoption, that child has not chosen to be adopted. Read the adult adoptee pages and you will see that many struggle enough with being adopted, even if it was "first choice" for their parents. To add this dimension of "if I could get pregnant, I would not be your mom" is not fair to the child or to yourself.

One last thing. When I was going through IF, I had SUCH a romantic view of pregnancy. Having the "baby bump" and feeeling it move. Knowing that my husband and I created life. Gotta tell you, there is more icky stuff that happens with pregnancy than I ever knew. I have never been more uncomfortable, tired, fat feeling, etc, in my life! I truly don't see what all the hype is about! In my opinion, and this is a HUGE hindsight observation, the ONLY reason to go through IF treatments is because you need the biological connection to your child. I would never have gone through any of it if I had known two things. First, how much I would love my adopted son as my own. There is no diference in how I feel for him. He is mine and I am his. Second, how not a big deal pregnancy is. To me, pregnancy sucks, and I can't wait to be able to adopt again!!

I'm glad pregnancy sucks for you, but please do not belittle my infertility experience. There was a point in time where I would have given everything to become pregnant, and it was not pointless, nor do I regret trying everything I did to become pregnant. I fully admit adoption is my second choice, like previosly stated, NO that does NOT mean second best.

Believe me, I will love my adopted child every bit as I would have a biological child, and if I get pregnant, that love will stay the same. I feel that adoption is every bit the miracle pregnancy is, as a matter of fact, I want to adopt now every bit as much as I wanted to become pregnant. But it took me a while to accept that I would NEVER become pregnant or feel what your feeling right now. So for you to try to downplay pregnancy and people making "such a fuss" over become pregnant is very demeaning to those of us that that put lots of time, tears, and pain into trying everything to become pregnant.

And NO I still stand by what I said, If I could have gotten pregnant, I would have not adopted. Does that make me a bad person or will that make me a bad parent? I guess you have decided that for me.

I'm sure infertility is hard, but doesn't there come a point when you need to move on? I would have hoped that had happened before you began the adoption process, but in the case of several people on this thread, apparently it hasn't, and that's sad.

NO you have not been through infertility, so then how can you tell "some of us on this thread" that we are not over it? You obviously don't understand what a harsh accusation and judgement this is to make, especially for those of us that took years to grieve that LOSS BEFORE adopting. Infertility is like any other grieve, you learn to move forward but for those that suffered like most of us have, we probably never will fully move ON wether we eventually get pregnant or adopt.

And "hard" doesn't even come close to what infertility is.

[lconner1176]

Hi
I hope you can make the decision that is in your best interest and the child's. It seems in this day and age that open adoption can be a real 'win-win' scenario if you find the right adoptive parents who you click with. We are searching to become parents and it doesn't seem like there are too many infants and toddlers available, but this is still all new to us. I hope you get all the info. you need to make the best decision for your situation.
Best to you...

[sadiegirl]

Just out of curiosity---those of you who think adoption is "easier" than pgy, what were your adoptions like? Did you have failed matches? A long wait? Any "complications"?

B/c as someone who was/is infertile, and has had 4 m/c's, I have to say, adoption is WAY WAY WAY harder than IF and pgy. Now, granted, I've never carried to term and just ended a long contested adoption, so I'm biased.

I guess it all boils down to what your experience is and no one's pain is "better" than anyone else's.

[JGarrick]

Originally Posted by crick

...but doesn't mean I feel we need to just let things slide either. Part of the purpose of these boards is education. If I'm using a word or term that could be offensive, I would rather someone point it out to me. ...

You make a good point. In Fran's post that started the uproar over the word "those," some people apparently heard it as if she had said something more like "nobody wants to adopt one of THOSE children," where the word "those" implies something like "undesireable." I'm sure many people have heard that sort of thing said in a way that they've come to have a pretty short fuse when they hear it. On the other hand, I can't find fault with Fran for using the language in a way that might be misinterpreted by people who read something she didn't write.

It's reasonable to point out to someone (as you did) that the words they chose may not mean what they think they mean. It's also reasonable for all of us not to automatically read more into a word than the standard definition. In an online forum, where you can only read and not hear inflection and feeling, and where statements are often composed quickly and not reviewed or edited, the reader and the writer both have to take extra care and think about what might - or might not - be "between the lines."

[proudmommyof 2]

Back to the OP's question: This is just my opinion, but I think every child that finds a home leads to a win-win situation. I have seen very rare cases in which a person adopts purely to "save a child". Either they find out that it is more heart-wrenching and a harder process than they thought and end up not finishing, or they realize and admit how badly they've wanted this child all along. I've seen a very few cases of people who have adopted a child and have raised them with the attitude that they are doing that child a favor, but I think that's an exception.

As for the debate over they types of adoption and the ages, I have to say this. For our first adoption, we wanted the typical CC infant. Because of the number of couples waiting for them, we turned to foster care. Because we had a placement that failed and our hearts were broken, we went to Russia and found our sons. Now that we have some experience as parents, it matters much less to us. We are now hoping to adopt again, probably a special needs child (now that we have experience), and probably a transracial or international adoption. My point is, the healthy newborn CC door was closed to us, so we kept walking until we found another door. I don't think people are bad for wanting this. Every child deserves a home, and when there are no children available in this country or in the most desirable age range, other children have a much better shot at getting a home.

[CAToso]

Originally Posted by JGarrick

Along the same lines, and I address this to eveyone now, I think it would be helpful to all if people weren't quite so quick to judge every word and find ways to take offense. It's gotten to the point where it's almost impossible to make simple statements because there's so much baggage attached to adoption terminology.

This is exactly why I logged off last night in the middle of reading this thread. I am not saying there shouldn't be an effort to educate people about appropriate language, or that we shouldn't ask folks to clarify if their meaning is ambiguous, but it certainly starts to feel around here as though sometimes people are just searching for something to take offense at.

I'm an adult adoptee whose adoptive parents couldn't conceive at the time. I have known my whole life that I was adopted, and it was always part of my story that they couldn't "make" a baby, so they chose me. This has never made me feel second best or "less" in any way.

I'm also someone who's suffering from infertility issues with my husband, thus we're "infertiles". It's not a term I've ever used myself or even really heard, but it certainly doesn't offend me. It's the truth, and it's even medically correct.

I guess I just wish that we'd try to look for our similarities and empathize a little more instead of trying to look for certain trigger words to take offense and snipe at each other over. I've been reading here almost daily for close to a year now, but I rarely post, because I'm terrified to say something that will offend.

~Courtney

[loveajax]

It really pains me to acknowledge the reality that my daughter ultimately came to me after years of IF treatment. I absolutely HATE the thought of her ever thinking that she was a "second choice," etc. (and Courtney I am so glad that you don't feel that way -- my DH who is adopted feels exactly the same way) But JGarrick, you are right....I did want to get pregnant (and I was someone who really wanted to eventually adopt too, but it was really important to me to have a bio child). I have often said adoption was my "Plan B" -- I know that implies Plan A is "preferred," I just look at it as a different route!

Courtney, I am glad that you posted, and I hope you continue to do so!

[proudmommyof 2]

Here's one way to look at it: I love my husband. He is my soul mate, and he is the one for me. I'm so glad I didn't marry any old boyfriends, or George Clooney. He is my "second choice" in that he came chronologically after the other guys I dated, but he's not my second choice in that I'm wishing any of the other choices worked out. I am so glad life worked out the way it did, or I wouldn't be married to him. THis is how I feel about my precious boys.

[crick]

Proud - that's an excellent way to look at things!
I've never felt that second choice meant second best and I think it's easy to get caught up in that.

Adoption is often a second choice for many parents. (not all of course) and if you ask any one of them I am pretty sure that 90-99% would say they couldn't imagine life any other way and their children are the light of their lives. (no, I've no statistics to fall back on...pulling it outta my head)

Cat - I hope you post more. I know that sometimes the heated threads can turn people off. I just really believe though that without a bit of a debate at times, we don't really learn anything or come to see different pov's. If we all agreed with each other it wouldn't serve much purpose either. Overall....I really do think the thread has gone well. We've covered a wide range of things stemming from the original topic and it's been good I think.

And as you saw....we've come full circle too...hopefully the op realizes that while there are different opinions by all, she should make the decision that is best for her and her family. Which to me is really the whole point of this thread.

[Sleepydream]

Jumping in here....I read all I could take and had to throw in my 2 cents. Sorry if I am repeating I did not read page 3 of replies, just the first 2.

If anyone feels like they want to adopt, whatever their reasons I say why not go for it? I am an "infertile" (cringe) and my oldest son was "one of those" (double cringe) that 40 couples are waiting for. My daughter was "one of those" waiting in foster care (trying to get bad taste out of mouth). Are you picking up on my disdain for the way children and parenthood has been objectified on this thread??

Anyway, our list of openness was wide open on what we would "accept" as far as race, drug exposure, sibling groups, living situation etc. My kids found their way to my family how and when they did and that is that. You have no idea how LUCKY we are to have these 2 wonderful little mischief makers in our lives! Guess what? We are waiting again! Why when we already have 2 beautiful healthy children? Do I feel "guilty" about cheating a childless couple out of a baby? Heck NO! We are adopting again because we want to, and can. When our next child finds their way to us it will not cheat anyone out of anything, because the child/ren who join our family will have been meant for us from conception no matter their race, no matter whether it is 1 child or 3, no matter the age when we find them, no matter their exposure or environment prior to coming home.

Call it faith, call it fate, call it HIS will, a divine plan or simple naivetee...I really don't care, that is just how I feel about it. Why would I limit the possibilities and maybe miss out on something wonderful? It can't hurt to throw your hat in the ring, it's the only way to find out what's out there waiting for you!

Wow, I went on quite a little rant there didn't I (getting off soapbox)?

[teranga]

"Just out of curiosity---those of you who think adoption is "easier" than pgy, what were your adoptions like? Did you have failed matches? A long wait? Any "complications"? "

Our experience, adopting from Ethiopia, was that we signed on for a homestudy and signed on with an agency in August 2004. Our son was in our arms in February 2005. Under 6 months, start to finish.

I have 2 bio children, and had "easy" pregnancies with both, easy natural childbirths...but pregnancy was MUCH harder than adopting. That said, I am not trying to be flippant about pregnancy. I am grateful I was able to experience it and wouldn't trade the aches and pains, and I have thought about it when I've heard women sit around and compare notes on pregnancy and delivery. I have a friend who went through many fertility treatments, and whose only child is adopted, and I wonder if those conversations bother her...

I did also have a pregnancy that resulted in miscarriage in the 2nd trimester. That was tough, and I'm not sure I'd want to go through that again. I knew I could get pregnant right away again, and odds are all would be fine next time, but...it scared me.

It was one of the MANY reasons we decided to adopt.

Several people have said those who adopt to "save" are misguided. But really--I can't imagine that is ever the only, or even primary reason...it would surely be one of MANY reasons, as it was for me.

Teranga

[taramayrn]

Honestly I don't know if you can ever compare what is harder. I think this could be argued until you are all blue in the face and you still wouldn't have come to any conclusions.

[shortlittlemama]

Agree tara. I think I stated earlier, and I stand behind still, no two pregnancies are ever alike just as no two adoptions are alike- and everyone has their own perceptions. You just can't compare and or make some of the sweeping generalizations I have seen and heard.