[Fran27]

Ugh no, I didn't mean it that way at all. I just meant 'one of those children who doesn't have a long waiting list of people waiting to adopt them'. I was referring to my last sentence... You can't really take things out of context If the 'those' is bothering you, English is not my first language so sorry if there is some negative connotation about it I'm not aware of...

Crick, yeah it's the kind of adoption I'm doing, mostly because we don't have any parenting experience, we haven't been around children much and it wouldn't be fair to children who need more experienced parents... Get my point? It doesn't mean we won't be more open for the next one. And please don't mention the race question, it's been a bad struggle for me to try to get my husband to open up....

And maybe my point isn't valid because I'm going for one of those children who have 40 families waiting for them, but you know what, if we could be pregnant, we would probably not do it, because I wouldn't feel good taking a child from a family that can't have children. Just would leave a bad taste in my mouth. But again, I guess infertiles just don't see things the same way...

[Vogi2002]

Originally Posted by Fran27

And maybe my point isn't valid because I'm going for one of those children who have 40 families waiting for them, but you know what, if we could be pregnant, we would probably not do it, because I wouldn't feel good taking a child from a family that can't have children. Just would leave a bad taste in my mouth. But again, I guess infertiles just don't see things the same way...

I realize what you are trying to say, truly, but please don't speak for all of us "infertiles" (which by the way is a little offensive to me, I dealt with infertility but it does not define me). I would not adopt if I could get pregnant (which actually I can't say as I never had the chance...) just because of the cost involved and the heartache, not because of any taste in my mouth. Remember to speak only for yourself from personal experience, not for a group.

I myself dont' feel as though anyone is taking away my child because my child is meant to be MY CHILD so it doesn't matter how many people I'm up against, it's all in bigger hands than my own (thank heavens!).

[Fran27]

Sorry, I thought I made sure to say that it's my opinion.

I'm not religious - I believe things happen because of our choices. I don't believe in what's meant to be. Mostly, I think that ANY child I would adopt would be MY child, no matter what. I'm sure all the families who had a failed match would have loved the children they lost as much as the one they finally adopted.

But again, just my opinion.

[teranga]

I had a long response written, but just erased it. I guess to me it boils down to the fact that it is not YOUR child being taken away. This child is the birthmother's, and if she doesn't choose you, then you were never the mother, so it is not your child being taken away. You can't lose what you never had.

The birthmother understands you are one of her choices. If she doesn't choose you, then she wanted something else for her child. She should not have to comprimise what she wants for her child b/c you can't have bio children. She should have all her choices in front of her.

Maybe she looks at it differently. Maybe she wants parents who CAN have children biologically b/c she knows taht they are adopting her child because they want to, even though they could have a child biologically. Maybe they don't want someone who would not adopt her child if they could have a child biologically. Whatever her reasoning, she deserves to make the decision based on her beliefs on what is best for her child, not yours.

[shortlittlemama]

Well put teranga. I am amazed at how heated this discussion has become. I have had 2 close friends recently experience miscarriages after having their firsts without complicatation. One nearly lost her life during the miscarriage. I have one bio and one adopted. Even though I had a healthy pregnancy, my back suffered in the process (definitely worsened my scoliosis) and I won't mention how nasty the C-Section results were, and getting pregnant took forever (needed a mild boost of fertility drug). Both experiences were different but equally wonderful, yet I have to admit adoption was less stressful. I am scared to death at the thought of trying to have another biologically based on what I know from my experiences and those around me. Who knows though, I feel we are a great family and I hope to make it larger, maybe even both ways again.
Every pregnancy is different, just as is every adoption. Both carry risks and potential heartache, but both hold the promise of a beautiful addition to the family. I hope everyone involved in adoption is focused on providing a loving home to the child that fits their family, whatever that may mean to the family. I would rather see people supporting each other and finding homes for every child, rather than fighting. The fight should be with the system to make the process easier on both adoptive and birth parents and less expensive; kids shouldn't have to be placed in a foster care system to find homes for free!
Now, I pray that I have not offended anyone and that my words are not twisted into the opening of someone's attack These forums are generally very friendly places to visit.

[crick]

short...I think it is friendly... But sometimes debates or disagreements are a part of life. We all have opinions and I like it when there are some disagreeing points...it's how I learn at times...

[dawnrenee58]

I am a little concerned when people say they would never adopt if they were not infertile. I feel sorry for the child they will eventually adopt! What if your child was to find this page, somewhere in cyberspace, and see that they were second choice? In my opinion, people need to reconcile their infertility, and get over it before adopting. Otherwise, there will always be a "second choice" feeling with your adoption. Kind of like you had to settle for this because what you really wanted was not available. And, what if something happens to you like to me? What if you do end up pregnant after your adoption is complete?
When you adopt, you need to do it with your whole heart, with no regrets or what ifs. Your future child deserves it, because although you have chosen adoption, that child has not chosen to be adopted. Read the adult adoptee pages and you will see that many struggle enough with being adopted, even if it was "first choice" for their parents. To add this dimension of "if I could get pregnant, I would not be your mom" is not fair to the child or to yourself.

One last thing. When I was going through IF, I had SUCH a romantic view of pregnancy. Having the "baby bump" and feeeling it move. Knowing that my husband and I created life. Gotta tell you, there is more icky stuff that happens with pregnancy than I ever knew. I have never been more uncomfortable, tired, fat feeling, etc, in my life! I truly don't see what all the hype is about! In my opinion, and this is a HUGE hindsight observation, the ONLY reason to go through IF treatments is because you need the biological connection to your child. I would never have gone through any of it if I had known two things. First, how much I would love my adopted son as my own. There is no diference in how I feel for him. He is mine and I am his. Second, how not a big deal pregnancy is. To me, pregnancy sucks, and I can't wait to be able to adopt again!!

Why do my posts always end up so long?????? Sorry girlies!!

[jaenelle]

Originally Posted by rredhead

I have always wanted to adopt. I have NO interest in getting pregnant and going through that experience. Pregnancy carries its own heartache: stillbirths, miscarriages, birth defects, premature delivery, gestational diabetes, emergency C-sections, physical pain, etc. I'd much rather fill out 13 different forms talking about my childhood and why I want to adopt than go through that. I know most people find this odd, but that's me.


-R

Bingo! Me too, Robin. I honestly don't know whether I can get pregnant or not -- we've never tried. I know that with my PCOS and pre-diabetes, pregnancy might not be easy to either achieve or sustain... and I feel SURE that I couldn't have gotten pregnant, carried a baby to term, and given birth in the time it took us to get Yuna -- even if you go from the very day we started thinking about adoption seriously.

I also resent the references to "those" kids -- my daughter is one of "those" kids because she's black. Why is she less valuable, as several people, but especially FRAN, seem to think, just because she's not that healthy white baby that there are 40 couples waiting for, but a healthy BLACK baby that there were only (at our agency) about 4 or 5 couples waiting for?

[crick]

Janelle...Fran did say above that she didn't mean a negative thought by "those"...so let's give her the benefit of the doubt maybe?

I get your point..and that's why I asked her for clarification.

I think it's important to add/start to your family however best it works for you. If some feel it's best to adopt a cc child, then it is. Or to adopt a sn child, international, infant whatever.

I think the point we all want to get across is that whatever is best for you may not be best for others and it's not up to any of us to say what is best for anyone but ourselves.

[Sniffles]

Let's remember to be respectful in our disagreements. It is fine to disagree with each other in a respectful manner, but if this thread can't be discussed respectfully, it will be closed for 24 hours for a cool down and if necessary, closed permanently. Thank you.

[jaenelle]

I just don't like to see all this negativity about how adoption is such a horrible thing to go through... I have ALWAYS been grateful that adoption was available to me as an option... no matter how hard it might be, I knew that pregnancy would likely be harder. In all likelihood, I would still be struggling to even GET pregnant if we had gone that route, instead of spending time with my beautiful daughter, who is a blessing beyond anything I could have imagined.

I'm sure infertility is hard, but doesn't there come a point when you need to move on? I would have hoped that had happened before you began the adoption process, but in the case of several people on this thread, apparently it hasn't, and that's sad.

[tinatyme]

I also never wanted to experience pregnancy. For a long time this led me to say I never wanted children, but then I realized that I did want to be a mother but that it wasn't important to me to have that pregnancy/birth experience. I live vicariously through my close friends' pregnancies and then I go home to my beautiful babies and feel very appreciative that I had the opportunity to adopt.

I do have some friends though that have gone through miscarriages and still births and I know that their dreams of a family started with that vision of pregnancy and birth. They are now in the process of adoption, however, and are ecstatic with the prospect of becoming parents soon.

I have had people ask me why I adopted and didn't have children of my own and it angers me so much. I wouldn't love my children any more if they were biologically connected to me. For me, there was no need to put another child on this planet when there are so many waiting for homes and I knew I could love them completely. I am also biracial (AA/CC) and unfortunately there are a lot of children out there waiting that are AA, AA/CC, and other ethnicities that don't have a long list of people waiting for them.

Anyway, I'm glad that these boards are a place to express yourself even if that means there are sometimes heated discussions. That is the best way to learn: about yourself and others!

[crick]

Janelle, maybe so...but everyone moves at their own pace, kwim?

That's why I don't like generalizations. I had fertility problems, but it wasn't a big deal to me. That's just me though...I know of lots of women who really struggle with this and it's emotionally and physically very difficult on them. I don't understand that since it's not my experience, but I also think for some, it's a process.

I have an acquaintance who was just adamant that adopting for HER was not an option. Having a blood tie was really really important to her. Took them 15 years and they now have a baby girl. I thought that was an almost ridiculous timeframe of heartache and couldn't believe all the things she put herself through. But for her...that was what she wanted. So for me I really had to check my opinions at the door...lol. Just because I'd never do it didn't mean it wasn't right for her.

I don't think she felt adoption was a negative thing...just wasn't right for her.

[loveajax]

I know I am going to sound pollyannaish here, but I think it is so beautiful that every "kind" of person wants to adopt for their own reasons. Honestly, before I knew I was infertile, I really wanted to have a bio child and then adopt a child (probably because DH is adopted and I just think it is a great way to build/grow a family).

Fran, I know the whole "marketing" aspect of being matched is grueling, but when you have your child, I think you will realize that it is awesome that all people choose to adopt. I think if only infertile people could adopt, these adoptees would feel somehow like a universal "treatment" for infertility, when we know that's just not the case. And, obviously, as someone said, what about birth moms who want their child to have older sibs, etc. -- I think that they should have the choice (I find it interesting that your agency only works with IF couples -- do they tell the birth moms they work with that?)

I really think that people who are talking about "saving" a child should really rethink that whole "motivation" to adopt. It's just too much pressure for a child. And I think you will find that, when you have your child, s/he really "saves" you!

I still have a lot of sadness/anger over my infertility. I think that it's a lot to ask someone to "just get over it" or "reconcile" with it before your adopt. To me, it's a disease (that I still have). It doesn't mean I feel any less love for my DD or joy in being her mom (truly) and in fact, I think it makes me appreciate that much more how wonderful it is to be her mom.

Finally, I know that people can be made to feel "guilty" sometimes about the choices they make (only healthy, only newborn, only CC). I think every parent has to come to terms with what they are comfortable with, and not change these decisions to get a quicker match. But the reality is is that you pretty much know going in that limiting "criteria" may (but not necessarily) increase your waiting time.

Btw, Fran, I do understand how it can hurt. I remember going thru orientation at our agency and we had like all these classes. This woman next to me was so "verklempt" that she and her DH would not be chosen, etc. I really, really felt for her until like the 6th class when I learned she had a 2 year old at home and my feeling was like, why do I have to "compete" with her? Hey, what can I say, I'm human and it annoyed me!!

[Sniffles]

Let's all please remember to use supportive non offensive language. Some people do not like being called infertiles, often it's more supportive to use "someone who suffers from infertility" . Also comparing hurts between what's harder and what is not is not productive.