[poullafouca]

Happy Christmas everyone.

I am a bit confused, unsure, and could definitely benefit from some guidance from those more experienced than myself.

Ten days ago we brought home our new baby daughter from the hospital. Her first/birth mother is having a hard time. I have visited her once already with Little Miss Tiny.

Prior to the birth she cited the reasons for placing her child for adoption as no desire to parent. Subsequently she has talked very sadly of all the things that I can give the child; more financial stability seems to be the main one, having an older brother is another.

We talk almost daily, sometimes twice a day. Naturally I am hugely concerned for her, but I realize that the more opportunity I give her to air her feelings, the more I feel I am holding back from the db. Sometimes she just wants to listen to the db's grunts on the phone, last night she talked of me taking the db to meet her aunt and uncle at some point in January.

I feel so odd. I think that I want so much to be there for her, to be loving and supportive, to reassure her that we will have an open adoption but I feel that I am losing my sense of being the baby's mother.

Also, the more I listen to her, the more I feel as if she will change her mind, so on some levels I am holding back from the baby, in case she does. She has already signed a waiver, to indicate that she has made her decision and one which supposedly obviates the 30 day waiting period here in CA.

She is coming for a visit on Christmas Day (she lives 12 miles away), I need to 'structure' this, an all day visit will be too much, I need time to relax a bit, not be on such high alert care taking mode.

DH feels like she wants to co-parent...

Yesterday she suggested to me that we plan 'visitation', I pointed out that open adoption is an evolving relationship and we should just build as we go. That feels better to me.

I don't want a co parenting situation. I want an open adoption, we have one with our first child, our son. I take him and visit his birth mommy every 3-5 months regularly.

I am hesitant to participate so much with someone else's pain. I am obviously aware that adoption involves loss, but right now it's hindering me.

The birth Mother takes frequently of how much pain she is. How she didn't expect this to hurt so much.

On some levels (she is 40)I realize that I am projecting my own failed fertility onto her. I was so desperate to get pregnant that I couldn't have cared less if I lived in a box, I would have made it work.

As you can tell, I am a bit all over the place, and very tired from the up-all-night newborn craziness.

I am sorry this is so long.

Poulla

[JewelMarie]

Wow, this is tough; perhaps others who are more experienced with this situation can guide you.

However, I do agree that having her there for a whole day is too much. Perhaps you can invite her for dinner, at 5pm-7pm. This will give a time limit. If you need to, you can get someone to drop by at 7pm for your next visit so to speak. Let her know that you have some other family plans earlier in the day and would like to honor these. However, let her know how important it is for her to visit today.

As for visit with other relatives, perhaps you can tell her that you would like to build a stronger relationship with her before having visits with other family members. Let her know that you would like these visits to occur but would like a couple months before they happen. Perhaps set a date for February. (This would also allow you time to get through your 30 days window.)

From the sounds of it, birthmother needs to be reminded that you are thankful and grateful for her gift of love and the little one will know of her as he or she grows.

I would not use the words co-parenting with her. In reality we know that this will not happen. Right now she seems like she is stuck on glue to you because she is hurting and just wants reassurance that she made the right decision.

It is tough situation but breathe. Perhaps at sometime in the future she will see a counsellor or get support from others (perhaps the agency.)

Merry Christmas and enjoy you little one.

Jewel

[sanielsen]

Poulla-
Is your bmom open to counseling? It sounds to me like she needs some help from an outside professional.

Merry Christmas,
Sarah

[kelceesmom]

Poulla,
Sorry to hear that you both of you are having difficulty right now. Since you have been through the adoption process before you, remember you have to set some bounderies early. It is hard but you have to do what is best for your family.

I agree that she should seek some outside counseling so that she can start her healing process.

We all know that you have her best interest at heart. Just keep letting her know it and that you want to continue building your relationship with her.

Good luck and I hope things begin to settle for her and you too.

[SchmennaLeigh]

Ask her, as another suggested, if she is open to therapy. Tell her that it doesn't mean she is weak; in fact, admitting that one needs some emotional help takes a lot of courage.

She's in the normal stages of grief and loss right now. A therapist with training would be her best help at this point.

[poullafouca]

One of the realities is, is that she has been seeing a therapist, I agreed to pay for several visits, but apparently that isn't helping enough.
Poulla

[bumblebeeskies]

Poulla,

Have you tried straight out asking her if she's thinking about changing her mind? I think situations like these, are why back in the day, a lot of babies were in cradle care until revocation period was up. This is horrible on both ends.

[lweiner]

I truely feel for both you and the **. It is a very hard situation, no parenting classes or amount of reading or listening to other peoples stories really prepares any of us for situations that come up for both the adoptive and birthparents. I think that you should go with your heart. I think that the ** may feel that she still needs to be very involved and she really may need help moving on to the next step in her life. You probably should have a careful talk with her and set some boundries that feel right for both of you. You should also suggest that she speak with an unbiased person that can help her to understand her feelings right now. I am sure that this situation has happened before to others, so keep calm, keep her in your prayers and god will guide you all.

[akcskye]

My take on it is that she still hasn't let go.

You need to not be "as available" to her for her to vent and hear the baby and the like.

Let her start feeling the loss is the only way she is going to ever come to terms with it.

I have never walked in these shoes, but to me, to consistently call and hear *my* baby grunting and cooing over the phone, though nice, would NEVER allow me to heal, and would constantly be ripping scabs off wounds, so to speak.

JMO...take a call or 2 less...she needs to adjust to your schedule, not the other way around.

She will have an open adoption, as you've stated...but an open adoption is 50/50, no one family (bio or A-family) should call all the shots.

If it doesn't work for you, tell her...you can't just hide your feelings and be nice (meaning like "suck up nice"), you have to put your foot down from the start, or you WILL be walked over 'til you stop it...so it's just a matter of how much crap you will want to be put through 'til you step up and let her know your needs.

GOOD LUCK...this has got to be HORRENDOUSLY emotional for you all...

[2manyks]

could yu talk to her therapist on the phone and just voice some of your concerns? then the therapist wouls have both sides and could better help bmom.

on the visit maybe you should go to her house or meet somewhere so you call the shots when you want to leave. having her at your house all day long sitting on you couch holding the baby and crying would be a nightmare

[mommy3]

So much respect to both you and your dd's birthmother -- both of you have lots going on right now. For me, it was pretty overwhelming just being a new mother when my three were born and it does take a little while to adjust to "what's happened." As much as you seem to truly care for your dd's birthmom's well being, I do think setting more boundaries, being with the baby and unavailable for as many calls, etc., will help everyone. That being said, I do think it's so important to remember that the adjustment time for most birthparents is a process of accepting and adjusting to the new role; I think whatever you do regarding setting a few boundaries and guiding things more will help, even though it may seem to hurt more for a little while. Her feelings may be surprising her, as well, and letting go is probably much harder than she imagined, even with caring so much for you. If you do anticipate visits only a few times a year, it's probably best to begin to broach that sooner rather than later.

Her interest in setting up visits may actually help if you share what you believe you want, as in a visit 4-5 mos from now, or whatever timeframe you plan. Coming to a compromise and being assertive but kind may bring a few issues to the surface, but it may be time for that. Do you have a lawyer or agency counselor who could mediate if you felt you needed that? Just a few thoughts of mine -- may both of you find peace with your new chapters in your lives. susan

[bromanchik]

Part of the grieving process entails obsessing about the loved one lost. Her calling all the time to hear the baby coo is most likely part of this obsessing. Can I give you a ssuggestion. It might be helpful for her to have something to "hold on" to to get through this. Can you make a tape of the baby cooing? Perhaps send her a foot print? A blanket the baby has used? Something to actually touch is so helpful.

Also something to read. The Spirit of Open Adoption is an amazing book. If she is not a big reader, I have been told my pocket guides have been really helpful. Reading about how open adoption can be and how others have gotten through this incredible loss is helpful on so many levels.

What is also helpful is having a bit more of an idea of what they are and may be to the baby. At this point all they are sure of is what they are not. Knowing how they fit in is extremely helpful. I think this is most likely what is behind the push for a visitation schedule. She is looking for her place. Letting her know how you see her in the life of your child will be extremely helpful.

I hope this is good. Feel free to pm me if you think I can help more.

[AwaitingBeloved]

Hi Poulla,
Congratulations on becoming a mommy! (I'm assuming this is number 1, if not, congratulations on becoming a mommy AGAIN!)

It's not easy to feel good when you're hearing someone hurt so bad. Especially the person who you are so grateful for and appreciate so much because they are the manifestation of how the gift of parenting came to be. Not to be mistaken with the child being a gift. That's not what I mean. Every child is a gift.

I can very much relate to what you're saying. We met DD's bparents right around Christmas last year. And then our families met. And then we went on a tour of the maternity center. And then we were there with the extended bfamily at the birth. And then I stayed in the hospital room with the birthmother (I would not recommend this, by the way.. and would not do this again if given the chance, it's a different topic so I don't want to get ot here), and then we went to a hotel with DD until papers were signed, and when DD was 5 days old, relinquishments were signed and we went home.

And then Bmother called. And I called bmother. And we called each other. And I'd hear her pain. She was usually very brave with me. But I could hear it. And I felt guilty every time I looked at DD. I knew the thought both birth parents put into placing, and that they did not make a light decision. I knew this in my head. But because I became so close to her birthmother, especially in the hospital, it became almost a conflict of interest for me. I began to think of her as a younger sister or a good friend. And I wanted to protect her, to save her. And sometimes, I think she liked feeling that I felt that way, too. And we kind of fed off each other into this unhealthy spiral down. Anyway, the conflict of interest was big. It was like I wanted to save her/protect her from anyone who hurt her. And though I didn't hurt her, I represent what's hurting her, and I wanted to save her from ME!

One night, when DD was only a couple weeks old, maybe a month or so.. she called crying hysterically on her bf's mother's cell phone while she was alone driving. She was having a hard time because she had just read her bf's younger brother (he's 4) a bedtime story and it hit her that she wouldn't be able to do that with DD and all the things she was missing.

I was so conflicted. I was so upset she was telling ME these things, but touched that she trusted me, and grateful that she was telling SOMEone and not letting these painful thoughts land and get settled in her heart or soul. That she was processing them at all, I was grateful.

I didn't say anything to her at that time about it being inappropriate for her to contact me, that she needed someone more objective than DD's mom.. And then eventually, I just wanted to move beyond it and hope it wouldn't happen again.

September 15th I got a phone call. DD's bmother called me to chat. Our regular talks were down to about once a month now (they'd moved across country in June, and now DD was 6 months old.. so our contact dwindled pretty quick after the first 3 months).

That phone call was pretty traumatic, since I remember the date.

She told me that the birthfather told her he wants to be a stay at home dad. That she'd wished he'd told her this 6 months ago, that she wants to wait now a few more years before starting a family, but it would have been nice to know this when DD was born. And some other stuff, too, which now I can't really recall.

My head started spinning, and my heart started pounding, and my guts started churning.

I was so upset. I was hurt for them that they felt this way, I was angry that she was telling me this, I was protective of my dd and our family and was feeling a little bit threatened. I knew relinquishments were signed and irrevocable, but I became afraid. I'm hearing they have regrets and they wished they'd known they'd felt differently, etc.

Now, a little more history.. everytime I talk to bmother her feeling about kids flip flops. One day she wants a tubal ligation, the next day, she wants kids. So she is conflicted, understandably so, on this subject herself.

And.. I know that she has no idea how her words made me feel. I know this now. At the time.... I didn't even think about that.

I hung up with her after keeping my strong front up, and called our SW. SW helped us draft a letter to bparents setting boundaries and accepting responsibility for not having set them in the first place. It also gave specific examples of what conversations hurt and why and why they are inappropriate and why they can't be had with us and that we understand they probably had no idea it felt as it did because I never told them and never, ever let them see how things affected me, as I didn't want to add to their grief.

I didn't hear from them until about two weeks ago. They emailed to find out if we could get together sometime this week as they were coming for a visit for the holidays. In her email, she said how the letter kind of came out of the blue for them and they're very sorry for our feeling the way we did and they understand why we felt that way, but just wished we'd said something sooner.... So needless to say, we were quite nervous about our visit.

Oh, also, we'd been in touch with a very pushy birthgrandmother (paternal side) during the match and during DD's first few months. In Oct we finally sent her a brief email to the point asking for some space, as we had not considered contact with extended family, it just sort of happened, and our agreement was with the bparents and she'd have to get updates from them, etc.

It didn't go over well and I began receiving nasty grams from her and her sister (DD's birthgreat aunt). These nasty grams just made it easier and easier for me to live with this decision. Each nastygram confirms that I did the right thing.

So we visited with her bparents on Christmas Eve. Scared to death that something would be said and someone would get upset, etc. Quite the opposite. We cleared so much up and were able to really talk about things and she sooo gets all of it. He does, too. They get how some things shouldn't be said to us, we realize the feelings are there, but we really shouldn't have to carry their grief while we raise our daughter, as they asked us to do. And they so get that his mother is sooo overwhelming, pushy, and just a little much. In fact, bmother said how she told the gmother that day when she forwarded the email I'd sent to her that she was overreacting and that it was nice and respectful and temporary. I wasn't closing the door. I was just asking for space.

Soo.. for Christmas, I was given peace. This meeting with the bparents gave me so much peace. I could see the sincerity in their faces and the true happiness in their souls when they told us that they get it and they understand and agree. And that they are happy with their decision. That they have friends with kids the same age who they love playing with etc, but they love even more that they can give them back.

Now.. behind the scenes during these months of turmoil. How this all affected me, is not good.

I hesitated to bond with DD. I had to actually think about it some days. I remember when she was a newborn telling myself "Julie, she needs someone to show her love. She needs someone to mother her. DON'T hold back out of grief for her bmother. Bmother will grieve for herself." I seriously had to tell myself this daily at first. Eventually, it got easier. Unfortunately, it was when she was two months old and in the PICU with whooping cough and pneumonia that I finally felt bonded to her. It was like the birth of motherhood to me. Even though she was two months old, and I'd been her mom for two months already, this was what finally helped me to feel like a mom and to bond and protect her, etc. Like any mom would.

Also.. I got depressed. I'm still working on this. Working through this. But there's definitely some trauma left in my heart from all of this.

What would I suggest? Tell bmother immediately how this is all effecting you. If you can't tell her, write it to her. Somehow communicate this to her. Tell her how much you care for her and that you want to be there for her, but you can't be there for her and be a mother at the same time. That you have to be a mother and she has to find her comfort in someone else. Whether it's a counselor, a friend, a clergymember, SOMEbody, ANYbody other than you. You are not the person to help her. You are not qualified to help her with this grieving process and you are not responsible to help her with it. The best thing you can do for her and for you and for your child, is to tell her you can't be that person for her.

It will be hard. It will be scary. At first, you'll wonder if you did the right thing. But, believe me, in time, you'll know you did. And she'll know you did, too.

I agree with Brenda's suggestion above, about a tangible baby item for the bmother. We gave her pictures and some footprints. She loved the footprints.

Poulla, if you want to chat more about this, I'm very happy to. PM me if you'd like. Good luck with whatever you decide. You're ahead of me for realizing as soon as you have that this dynamic is not working. Good job..

[AnnaE]

I am a foster mom of newborns and see a lot of birth moms and how they are. If you can get past these first weeks, I think things will get better. Hormones contribute to this. Most of them can think better after the first weeks and reconcile why they chose adoption. Most do become very sad and question their decision and then all of a sudden after a few weeks become sure of it, less emotional, and attached. Wait this out, and maybe express to her that you need to bond with the baby..in the baby's best interests. Hang in there. Love that baby. Blessings, AnnaE

[poullafouca]

Our lovely birth mommy came over on Christmas Day for a few hours, she had another committment so ended up staying just for a while. She held the baby very tenderly, and gave us some thoughtful gifts.

When she left she hugged me and told me tha she loved us, and was so happy that we her family too.

After the visit I felt better, some of my fears were allayed. She seemed calm and nice, and I didn't pick up and strangeness, neither did DH.

It helped immeasurably to read your responses; I felt myself open up more to the db, just because I had managed to articulate what was bothering me. To find that others had experienced the same emotional confusion was so helpful.

I am going to practise withdrawing a little bit, and if neccessary have a chat or send an email outlining why.

Now to hit that treadmill!

Poulla