[Papa D]

We thought we were done with expenses but our lawyer sent us yet another bill for over $4,000. Background: We occasionally sent chunks of money to the attorney, who would pay out of these retainers his own fees, medical bills and living expenses for the birthmom. She had pretty lame insurance - a $2,000 deductible had to be met first, then we paid 20 percent of everything after that. However, my insurance company appears to have kicked in and paid $4,000 for DD's first three days in the hospital, so that's great.
However, if we send the next $4,000, we will be topping $13,000 in total cost - and this is a private adoption - no agency fees involved. Lawyers fees will end up running about $6,000, medical costs around $5,000 and cost of living about $2,000.
I'm just wondering if that's normal? We're out of regular savings and are drawing on a home equity line, so it's getting stressful. Is this just the way it goes?

[McNally720]

We did an agency adoption, and our total cost was just under $15K.

I guess if everything is itemized, then the charges are "legitimate". Our cost of living was capped by a state law, and that was $3,000, we didn't see any hospital bills because Medicaid picked up what the insurance companies didn't. I think it is a law (at least in Indiana) that your insurance company must kick in once the child is placed with you, so that's good that they've covered some of those expenses. I suppose the definition of "placed" can be interpreted differently....

Just think....since you are finalizing soon, you'll be able to get the tax credit this year! Hang in there!

[Fran27]

Did your attorney give you a list of what that bill covers? It does seem a lot, but when the birthmom has a bad insurance that's unfortunately the adoptive parents that have to pay. Did you sign an estimate or something of the kind beforehand?

[jaenelle]

Sounds like a pretty bad deal to me, but then I don't believe in adoptive parents paying birthparent expenses. I think there's too much opportunity for unethical things to go on.

[ourdreamcametru]

Sounds on the high side to me, this is over double what our private adoption cost. But as stated before, if you are paying medical expenses this could be right. I would ask the attorney to see an itemized bill just so I knew where every penny went.

[EmmaLeigh2882]

I assume that if you are paying the medical bills you can get a copy ( with patient's ID blacked out) so you can verify the costs are correct. There are so many reports out there that Dr and Hospitals mis charge for routine items all the time ( like double billing for meds, bed pans, "care packages" never received etc)
I would ask for a copy and not pay anything to the lawyer- just to the DR or Hospital directly ( where you can negotiate the bill down- after you correct the mistakes)

AS for total costs, sorry I haven't adopted yet. ( I just work for $$ a lot so I like to butt my nose in where ever I can to help people save a few$$!)

[sadiegirl]

I would ditto what others have said about getting an itemized bill. I would also check and recheck with the hospital.

We were charged 1200$ for DS' hospital bill of which the hospital said only 400 was covered. After checking with our insurance, we were told that we were only responsible for 105$! Yet the hospital billed us for months for that 800.

I was sick that we ALMOST overpaid them by 650+! We nearly did pay the bill! Hospitals---almost as bad as lawyers!

Which brings me to, your amount really sounds about right, with living expenses, medical, atty, etc.

JMO

[Papa D]

Our lawyer doesn't really give us great details with the accounting, so that's a problem. I'm LEAST worried about birthmom's cost of living - we only covered her six weeks after the birth, when she was out of work. I'm more worried about double billing with the hospital, and the lawyer fees - my math shows about 24 billable hours for everything. My other atty friends say that's a lot for one adoption.

[kelceesmom]

Papa D,
Our lawyer accounted for everything she did. Every phone call made, the length, and legal paperwork and length of time to fill it out, deliver, postage. Yours should be doing that too. It does add up but when you can see it written down it makes more sense. It does sound like quite a bit and they should be able to show in detail what is happening. I would definately request that.

[ess922]

Did you sign a retainer agreement when you began working with this attorney? If so, read it really carefully. We signed one with our lawyer and we thought we read and understood it properly. Then when the bills started coming we thought they were high. We double, triple and quadruple checked that agreement and though the fees were high, they had some how alluded to being entitled to charge them all within that long, complicated retainer.

If you don't have anything in writing from the lawyer about his/her fee structure. Ask! We were able to reduce our final bill by asking and advocating for ourselves to get silly unneccessary just-in-case charges taken off. And its a good thing we did. We ended up with a small credit amount left in that atty's account that we have yet to see (many months after finalization). Had we paid all those "extras" they'd be holding on to all of that too.

[Linny]

I'd tell you that I think your attorney is charging some BIG money there!!!! The expenses (something I don't personally agree with either).....aren't really THAT bad.......but the attorney's fee of 6k......that's the steep one, IMO.

Around here, and from most attorneys I've spoken with.......a private adoption can be done for around 6-7k....and that includes the homestudy and attorney's fees, as well as the expenses this state will allow (2k is all).
I'd ask for an itemization from the attorney's office.......

Sincerely,

Linny

[ContactChar]

PapaD, is the attorneys fee for one attorney or 2? For my private attempted adoption, the birthmom's attorneys fees would have been about $2500 (which was a little high, only because I had to use 2 attorneys for her. . . long story). My attorney's fee would be a little higher-- $3-4000. I haven't gotten his bill yet, but he charges $260/hour, and just from the hours I've calculated, it's going to be a doozy. Add to that a guardian ad litem fee (I'm not sure how much that would have been). Your adoption went pretty smoothly as I recall, so I would imagine attorney fees should be about $4000 for all attorneys involved. I'm in the D.C. area, so fees may be a little higher here. . . not sure where you are.

In any event, the lawyer must have an itemized bill, because he'll need to present it to the court. There's no reason you shouldn't be able to see it as well.

[Papa D]

Our attorney is happy to show us itemization on all the birthmother and medical expenses, and although I cringed at some of those ($1,000 in maternity clothes?), it's hard to fight hospitals and I don't want birthmom to feel bad - she did hand us her first born child. I feel like I'd wreck the karma cart if I tried to mess with that. But every time I try to ask specific questions about money,the attorney seems to get testy, like I'm questioning his judgement. We're borrowing on a home equity line to pay for all this, and I'm about to send another $4,000 - my house as collateral - to this attorney. When I asked for him to itemize his time (calls, paperwork, etc) - he said if he added it all up it would be more than what he's charging. His rate is $200 an hour and at $4,800 total, that's 24 billable hours for a very smooth adoption that had no legal challenges.

[BrandyHagz]

Rule of Thumb:

Do you pay your phone bill without an itemized statement?

Do you pay your electric bill without an itemized statement?

Do you really pay any bill without having an itemized statement?

This should be NO different - plus, the IRS may demand an itemized statement if you are audited after taking the Adoption Tax Credit - to ensure that you claimed only allowed expenses.

Attorneys should always send an itemized statement and they should do it without request - call him back and tell him that if he wants his money, he'll send an itemized statement like he is supposed to and you will discuss any further issues at that time.

Additionally, the birthmother is not and should not be involved in the financial side of this - this attorney is YOUR attorney and he is really putting himself in a position for disbarment if he is discussing YOUR legal issues with a 3rd party...

You absolutly should view and negotiate a reduction in the CASH medical expenses - as is your right.

Again, the birthmother shouldn't be involved in any of this at this point and so your concerns about the birthmom feeling bad shouldn't be a concern...

[akcskye]

Another thing I would like to add, but probably won't help the OP, but may others.

In the event that you are left with a medical bill from doctors OR hospitals that insurance will not cover...ASK them what they would charge you to pay the debt in full.

My grandmother was exclusively on medicare and she had a $2000 balance after all was said and done.

They said "pay us $800 in full, and it's considered paid in full".

She did, saved over 1/2 of what it would have cost to pay it out.