[tyiakoum]

You have only to experience an orphanage situation (like we have) to know that even the greatest, cleanest, most well-run orphanage, is a very challenging, stressful and difficult situation for a child to grow up in.

You have only to experience being a foster parent, or mentor kids in foster care, to know that it is not in the best interest of any child to be moved from home to home, on the whim of the "system".

You have only to meet a woman whose life was filled with drama, chaos, and turmoil, who turned her whole life around, stopped abusing substances, went back to college, and got her degree (a JD, no less!) after she placed her child with a loving, nontraditional couple (a woman we have met, and were very glad we did). Her child's birth galvanized her to take charge of her life.

You have only to meet the many families whose lives have been touched by children they have adopted. Whose children thrive. Whose aparents respect the woman who gave birth to their child. Whose firstmom has resolved that the choice she made for her child was the right choice at the time she made it. And is, in her heart, certain that her child is at peace and will come to her when the child is able and ready.

That's all I'm sayin'.

I've got to respond to some of these messages where people are saying how awful adoption is for the firstmoms and the adoptees. I know adoption is not perfect. We are all human and humans are not perfect in any way, so why should adoption be a perfect solution since it involves human contact.

However, we have, as a whole, made great strides in improving the means by which children are adopted. By how expectant mothers, whether they place or not, are treated. And children have more options of being placed in a loving home, vs. being shuttled from house to house without thought or care as in the FC system, or, placed in orphanages. The ones I have witnessed are simply draconian. Old buildings, falling apart. Kids in decent clothes, but running in packs. Educated but not in the ways of life and family support. Given nice things, which are taken away and just put out for "show" when visitors come. I could go on and on.

Should we go back to those days when kids were warehoused in orphanages here in the States? Should we go back to the days when every adoption was so closed that even when both aparents and first parents tried to connect, it was nearly impossible? When children had no access to their information. Now with open adoption, and a myriad of resources (including this website), a child can search and hope to find.

I think not. Screening of aparents is stricter and more difficult than ever. Expecting women can get a huge amount of support prior to giving birth and after placement, should she choose. They aren't forced any longer to "go away to Aunt Renee's", or, stuck in a women's home (unless they choose) so no one knows they were ever pregnant, because of the stigma and shame that carried.

I'm just sayin'.

Let's put the positives into perspective here.

As for the foster care system, yes, I know there is reform but not across the boards. So it is not the finest way to meet the child's best needs, long-term.

Here's hoping things improve across the boards in every avenue adoption offers. We should be very grateful, for the child's sake, and for pregnant women everywhere's sake, that things have evolved to better circumstances. I know younger women who are reading this won't possibly know what I am saying about women being hidden away when they were expecting... because it was so long ago.

I vividly remember one of my classmates getting pregnant, being sent away for the summer, and when school year started, she had a "new sister". Her mom took over the care of her baby and it was a big deal. Now, that situation would rarely happen, where it would be a big family secret.

[SchmennaLeigh]

However, we have, as a whole, made great strides in improving the means by which children are adopted. By how expectant mothers, whether they place or not, are treated

The "strides" are not as great as you may think. Read Ann Fessler's book "The Girls Who Went Away" and then do a smidge of research on the unethical agencies that are scamming expectant families to this day.

I am one who does not feel that adoption is evil but we can't pretend that bad things don't exist. It won't help anything or anyone.

All you have to do is meet one firstmother who has been absolutely broken by an unethical agency or family (can we just say Cindy?) and you will know that we have a long, long way to go.

[tyiakoum]

Originally Posted by tyiakoum

I know adoption is not perfect. We are all human and humans are not perfect in any way, so why should adoption be a perfect solution since it involves human contact.

That's all I'm sayin'

Unethical behavior is human. It happens to aparents too.

Respectfully,

[Leigh131313]

Adoption CAN be a healthy option. For any side of the triad.

It can also be unhealthy for any side of the triad.


I'm not opposed to the thought that adoption can be unhealthy....But I am STRONGLY opposed to the sweeping generalization that it is unhealthy for everyone, period.

[manni28]

Adoption was a healthy option FOR me-I'm an adoptee and I am happy for the parents that raised me. I know not all adoptees feel this way, but the one's that I know do feel happy and grateful for the parents that raised them-as all children should when they have good parents-IMHO!

[SchmennaLeigh]

Originally Posted by tyiakoum

That's all I'm sayin'

Unethical behavior is human. It happens to aparents too.

I am aware it happens to aparents as well. It happened to my daughter's family. However, to justify it by saying "it's human" seems to belittle everyone's experiences, doesn't it? Shouldn't we be pushing for a more "human" way to treat individuals?

[gottahavehope]

I think that one of the difficulties I encounter on this board is that I do hear those sweeping generalizations that adoption is not healthy or that all adoptive children search for their birthparents and without them in their lives they are somehow damaged and that has not been the case in my situation. I think, at first, I found it to be so frustrating to hear others talking down about adoption when that is how I created my family, that I wanted to respond with those sweeping generalizations myself. I realize how silly that is. No one can speak for anyone else. No two situations are alike.

My father and cousin were both adopted and have had no interest whatsoever in searching for their birthfamily. Neither feel any connection, and so of course that influenced my own feelings. However, I realize they are individuals with their own personal history. I can't base my beliefs on adoption on two individuals. My son may feel very strong connections to his birthmother and so I'll always work to maintain that relationship so the option is there for him. Or, he may not? Only time will tell.

I realize that some people will want to search, some won't. Some will feel a connection to their birthparents, some won't. Some birthmothers are mistreated, some are not. Some adoptive couples are scammed, others are not. All we can do is make the best decisions for us and for our own familes. Those decisions are going to be based on personal experience. But we can't mistake personal belief or experience as universal truth.

If we all keep that it mind, I think we'll fight less and find much more common ground around here.

Peace,
K

[tyiakoum]

Originally Posted by SchmennaLeigh

I am aware it happens to aparents as well. It happened to my daughter's family. However, to justify it by saying "it's human" seems to belittle everyone's experiences, doesn't it? Shouldn't we be pushing for a more "human" way to treat individuals?

Jenna, I think you've greatly raised awareness on these boards.

You are obviously an activist in the field and are quite effective in asserting your opinions.

I am not generalizing. Change takes time. And it also takes individuals like you who are very hard charging and persistent.

And, I'm not justifying or belittling. Humans were born with flaws, that is a simple fact. Most of us try and overcome those flaws but some don't. We cannot control who chooses to change or not. We can inform and educate, but we cannot control another human being's actions.

Watch Dateline tonight about the woman who scammed at least 7 families (and lived quite well on the proceeds) through parentprofiles.com and you will see that on the adoptive parents' side, there are many predatory things happening as well. Facilitators, agencies, attorneys and individuals who are not above board.

In my waiting parents group alone, there are three couples who were totally taken advantage of by other agencies and switched to the agency we are using because they are ethical on all sides of the triad as well as honest and effective.

Because of our family's income, we have to use our agency to screen vs. meeting directly w/expecting women. That is a disappointment to me because I did not want to use an intermediary to interface at the onset of a relationship with the possible mom. And BTW, our income has not resulted in us adopting quickly or having an "edge" in any way. We've been waiting longer than many people here on the boards. Our income is not a factor with the exception that we can more easily be targeted and scammed.

This situation is hard on all involved. It is never easy. I hope someday it will be. I wrote this note to counter the generalizations made that adoption is a horrible option for children. Having worked w/kids in foster care, in homeless shelters, and kids at-risk, for 19 years now, I can tell you the other side of the equation. Working with an orphanage overseas, as my DH and I have done to help meet their needs, as the kids are "unadoptable" and stuck there until they turn 18, we also know the alternative to adoption is a scary and tragic thing for kids.

[DavidKed]

But we can't mistake personal belief or experience as universal truth.

Good point. So, what are the universal truths about adoption? What generalizations can we make that are meaningful and to which of those generalizations can we use as a basis for change and which generalizations can we use to say that adoption is functioning as it should?

[ajjhmf]

Originally Posted by DavidKed

Good point. So, what are the universal truths about adoption? What generalizations can we make that are meaningful and to which of those generalizations can we use as a basis for change and which generalizations can we use to say that adoption is functioning as it should?

I can think of one generalization about adoption that is true for all member of the triad, for all type of adoption.

Loss. We all experience it in some way. The child's loss with their brithfamily. The aparents loss of a genetic connection. A birthfamiles loss of the child. I could go on and on. But loss is the one thing I can think of that does affect everyone in adoption.

Blessings,
Jenny

[SchmennaLeigh]

Dateline was a repeat. (I work for NBC.) My question is this: why didn't they show an adoption that worked for all sides of the triad. We only hear the horror stories. You don't see families like mine on the television, explaining that even though certain issues are tough for all sides, things can work. Why is that? No one wants a happy story. They like to point fingers, judge and feel better about themselves in the end. I know this; I work for the media.

And yes, for children, adoption can be a wonderful experience. I have no doubt of that. At the same time, it's sad when an under-qualified couple sneaks through the system and ends up abusing, mentally or physically, a child that they've adopted either from birth or through the state system. Yet, at the same time, biological families abuse children as well. It comes back to realizing that there is no perfect way to raise a child: adoption, fostering, parenting, etc. As you've said, we're all flawed. I know that I am! Heck. But that doesn't mean I don't try to better myself on a daily basis: make better decisions, learn as much as I can about raising my Son to eat, learn and be healthy, etc. Why aren't we holding those who act either unethically or pretty darn poor in general to that standard? Yes, we can push for education but if they're not going to listen and continue to screw over adoptive parents, expectant parents, children, adoptees and firstparents.... where is the line that we should draw?

It's hard for me. I had a crappy hand dealt and thankfully made the best out of what could have been a very, very bad thing. Some first families aren't so lucky. Some adoptive families aren't so lucky. And the true sadness lies in the fact that some adoptees/children aren't so lucky either.

If the children are being hurt by unethical agencies/people/etc, shouldn't we be doing SOMETHING about it? Or should we just sit back and say, "Eh, people are flawed. It's okay."

I'm not necessarily arguing with you. This was a "Jenna is talking out loud" kind of post. I know there are no universal answers to solving the corruption that exists in all the different facets of adoption. But it just feels wrong to sit back and say, "Oh well, it's the way that it is."

And I need another cup of coffee.

[manni28]

I agree with both sides BUT the truth is (IMO) there are A LOT of children that should have been adopted at birth. Look at all of the children in foster care; they could have been spared the agony of abuse/neglect if they were adopted at birth. Yes, adoption includes loss but the main reason for adoption is child’s best interest. In my opinion being a parents is a job that ends with the parents death; not, when the child is 18 or 21-parenting is a life long commitment-even now, at age thirty-eight, I still ask my aparents for advice. Adoption can be good for the child (IMO) if the bparents aren't emotionally and physically ready, and that's a fact!

It's hard for me. I had a crappy hand dealt and thankfully made the best out of what could have been a very, very bad thing. Some first families aren't so lucky. Some adoptive families aren't so lucky. And the true sadness lies in the fact that some adoptees/children aren't so lucky either

SchmennaLeigh:

How were you dealt “ a crappy hand"? I'm curious?

[MkMw]

Because of our family's income, we have to use our agency to screen vs. meeting directly w/expecting women. That is a disappointment to me because I did not want to use an intermediary to interface at the onset of a relationship with the possible mom. And BTW, our income has not resulted in us adopting quickly or having an "edge" in any way. We've been waiting longer than many people here on the boards. Our income is not a factor with the exception that we can more easily be targeted and scammed.

I have NEVER heard this before. The only way you could be "targeted and scammed" because of your income is if you put it out there.

Many initial meetings of expectant moms considering adoptions and adoptive parents are on neutral territory anyway - usually with a social worker, attorney or agency present. Most initial contacts are via e-mail or a toll free number......

AND most agencies will black out certain things in a homestudy if you request them to, and that's IF an expectant parent asks to see it - to the best of my knowledge few do.

Our agency was very quick to tell us that income and material posessions were rarely what people genuinely seeking parents for their child/ren were looking for. I understand that "scammers" are looking for money - but I don't get why you can't screen people yourself.

In fact - many expectant parents considering placing don't want money. We paid ZERO birth family expenses with both of our adoptions - if you are genuinally worried about getting scammed - then just refuse to pay expenses.

o.k. - just read that and it doesn't sound the way I meant it too - it just really surprised me to see that and I need to go.......

But yes, I think that adoption can be a healthy option if everyone involved is honest with each other.....

Jenna - love the new avatar

[SchmennaLeigh]

Originally Posted by MkMw

But yes, I think that adoption can be a healthy option if everyone involved is honest with each other.....

Jenna - love the new avatar

These are good points.

I asked to see J&D's homestudy and they did have their income blacked out. I still, to this day, don't know how much they make. Nor do I care! LOL. I just wanted to make sure their home life was on the up and up, if that makes sense. I figured I was making a decision that involved their homestudy so I had a right to see it. I didn't ask to see anything that was blacked out because it wasn't an important factor to me.

And thanks.

[SchmennaLeigh]

Originally Posted by manni28

How were you dealt “ a crappy hand"? I'm curious?

I had an unethical agency. I've never been quiet about that.