[hotspice58]

When she starts school (I know this is later), you can get the help of her teacher. Maybe if the school authorities report abuse, something will be done.

[SchmennaLeigh]

I wasn't talking about counseling to "fix" the Mom. I was talking about counseling re: the emotional aspects of placing a child. While you may not think that she needs it because she's all ready placed other children within the family, counseling is needed for every placement whether you think she cares about her child or not.

[JaCC]

You are right. We would seek counseling for her if she desired it.

[SchmennaLeigh]

No. You're not understanding. A woman considering placement needs counseling whether or not she "speaks up" and asks for it. Especially if she is going to feel pressured by you or your family. Not offering her counseling is coercive at best.

[JaCC]

You can't force someone to do couseling if they don't want to. Yes, I'm worried about her emotional well-being and I do wish that she would get counseling because she needs it. She has been through trauma and I know that she needs some help, but we can't force her to do it. We are not going to pressure her into this. Although it is the best for the child if she does let us adopt her, it is HER child and she needs to think long and hard about it. We don't want her to "give us an answer" when we talk to her. She needs counseling to make sure it's what she wants to do, but if she says "yes" without taking us up on the counseling, the only thing that we can do is take the child. I feel that each situation is different and each birthmom is different and you can't say across the board that each one must have counseling when they won't/can't stay off drugs long enough to make it to the counseling session. Like I said, I do want her to have counseling, but I can't force her to do.

[BrandyHagz]

Ja,

Jenna is not saying force it.

She is saying offer it...when she said that, you said you would offer if she desired. All Jenna is saying at this point is don't wait for her to 'desire' it - offer it right out of the box, up front and at the start...if she doesn't want it or refuses it, you've done all you can do.

Make more sense?

[JaCC]

Oh... I get you know. We'll offer it up front for sure. Sorry I misunderstood you.

[numbr1dbcksfan]

Yes, I am concerned about your point, but I feel like we're too far in this now to turn around. If she says NO, I guess we will just worry about that then.

What do you mean by "too far"? I thought that this is just you and your hubby considering and nothing has been put into motion or even presented to the mom....

Has anyone offered to give her a place to stay that isnt a trailor with 10 people...etc? Or is the only help being offered is the offer to take her child from her?

I suppose I think that not only does the mom have a say (of course) but she also doesnt have to answer to you... You say in your opinion that her welfare check is all that would keep her there... but you cant possibly know that...

I personally dont think that you should be offering to adopt anyone -- but perhaps offer to help the mom get into a better situation...

[2Bulgarianbeauties]

Given she is smoking drugs in front of the child, not controlling the child's environment or controlling exposure to people and their activities, I do not think giving the mom a nicer home will make the situation better.

JaCC has taken care of this child. The child has a bond with JaCC to some level. I think offering to adopt this child is a very good thing to do.

[JaCC]

Thank you for your reply. I mean "too far" emotionally. I've known the mom for 12 years and have offered to help her numerous times. She has jokingly asked us to take her child before and even offered to pack her clothes for her. You're right that nothing has been seriously presented to the mom yet.

The mom seems to have no desire to better her life. I would be all for her keeping her child if she didn't physically and verbally abuse the child and subject her to dangerous situations and people. She has never had a job, been in rehab unsuccessfully numerous times, gotten kicked out of numerous HUD houses, etc. I do empathize for her and wish that she would allow us to help her better her life so th at the child could stay with her. The reason that I say this about the welfare check is because she told her mom that and her mom told me. She's not going to work so this is her only source of income. Like I said before, I've known her a long time and unless something drastic happens, she will continue to move in/out with whoever pays her bills and drag the child with her. I do understand what you are saying and we would be willing to help her IF she would allow us and IF she would make an effort. "Users" become very comfortable with this lifestyle and it takes a lot of effort to support yourself and your child when you're used to a handout all the time. This adoption is really the last effort. We have tried to help her and she choses to continue to use drugs and take off and leave her child with her mom for weeks at a time (the grandma does not want to raise this child because she's already raising a grandchild). I know I may sound insentivie about this, but believe me, I'm not. I've agonized over this and lost sleep over it trying to figure out what to do. After all our failed attempts to help the mom better her life, I don't know what else to do.

Originally Posted by numbr1dbcksfan

What do you mean by "too far"? I thought that this is just you and your hubby considering and nothing has been put into motion or even presented to the mom....

Has anyone offered to give her a place to stay that isnt a trailor with 10 people...etc? Or is the only help being offered is the offer to take her child from her?

I suppose I think that not only does the mom have a say (of course) but she also doesnt have to answer to you... You say in your opinion that her welfare check is all that would keep her there... but you cant possibly know that...

I personally dont think that you should be offering to adopt anyone -- but perhaps offer to help the mom get into a better situation...

[la vida loca]

Originally Posted by numbr1dbcksfan

I personally dont think that you should be offering to adopt anyone -- but perhaps offer to help the mom get into a better situation...

I agree with the above comment. The child has a mother and I wonder how the first solution can be to offer adoption. These people are your family and surely there are many, many things that can be done before you get to adoption. You seem like an intelligent and caring person...please see if you can help your family in a different way.

[numbr1dbcksfan]

JaCC has taken care of this child. The child has a bond with JaCC to some level.

JaCC has taken care of this child? So the mother has done nothing? If JaCC SAW the mom smoking drugs in front of the child then why not stand in the living room and call the police and wait for them to get there? If she "heard" that happened then for all intensive purposes it didnt. Believe me.. Im not sticking up for the mom if this is true - I had parents like this -- but I dont think that offering to take the child will work. My Aunt offered to take me.. and my mom said no just so they wouldnt have me. Then it just makes it worse on the child. (In my experience).

I dont know what the right thing to do is.. but man this just doesnt seem like it would work unless approached in a manipulative way that makes the mom think it is in her best interest and not as a threat or a judgement...

[JaCC]

I appreciate everyone's constructive criticism of my situation. Believe me, I've given this much thought and honestly, adopting the child is not the easiest solution for me. I've tried to help in other ways, but I am at a loss as to what to do. The town that they live in is a small, crooked town and it is very difficult to get anything accomplished just by calling the police. I've seen the mom stoned before with the child so my ASSUMPTION is that she did drugs with the child in the house. No, I've not seen her do the drugs in front of the child. I'm not going to threaten or try to manipulate the mom to do this. But, how can I sleep at night knowing that I didn't try anything to help the child? Hey, it would be far easier on me and my husband if we didn't have to raise the child, but this child needs someone to stick up for her. Like I said, DHS will practically do nothing unless the child is injured or you can prove that the mom is unfit, which is basically impossible. I have taken care of the child and the mom would have left her with me longer if I would have let her. She leaves the child with whoever will take her. She ships her off to the child's dad's parents every once in a while for a month or so until they get tired of her and send her back. I'm not trying to be defensive about this, but I've been around the mom long enough to know that her chances of changing her life are slim. It's just hard to offer help to someone who is not willing to take. Like I said, we're not going to force her into this. The child is hers, not mine, and I want her to understand what she's doing. This family has a history of letting other family members raise their kids so this is nothing new to her. My in-laws raised a neice and it has worked out fine and they live in the same town as the neice's mom. I'm definitely open to suggestions and trying to be open-minded, but I really believe that the only answer is for this child to be raised by caring parents, not a mom who is on drugs all time, exposing her child to dangerous people.

[Lorraine123]

Its tough for Social Services to remove a child for neglect. Usually, it does have to be physical injury for removal. That isn't the case in just that one town, that true everywhere. Neglect is subjective. Just because she is going to others to take care of her, its hard to prove that is neglect. Same with suspected drug use. Even though you know that she is using in front of the child, how can they prove that? They must have legal proof. It is a legal procedure to forceably remove a child from their home.

I just wanted to point this out, so that you would realize that this is standard actions for social services, not corruption. It will be tough to get this child removed and into foster care without physical abuse.

[pwheatle]

JaCC
You are a far bigger person than I to take what has been offered here by some posters as 'constructive criticism' You know what is going on with this family and you know how the child is being treated. I believe you when you say that over the last twelve years you have done your best to help this family and that you are continuing to do so. Go forth and do what you think is best. It is those that sit by waiting for things to change that are as guilty as those who inflict the abuse and neglect. Continue to do what you are doing.

Tricia