[BabsCanada]

Nothing to do with adoption of course, but wanted input from parents experienced with all kinds of situations -

Our 9 year old daughter is our only child, and I will admit she is somewhat overprotected and not tremendously over-socialized;

She is a quiet girl with a few close friends and some schoolmates / acquaintances that she spends time with, in and out of school.

There is a classmate of hers that dd does not play with at school, she lives about 8 city blocks away from us; last summer she took to appearing on our doorstep unannounced and wanting to come in and play; she would have her bike, and no helmet, she didn't know her home phone number; couldn't tell me when she was expected home. I made a couple of phone calls to try and find her parents, but got nowhere, and so dd and I walked her home. When we arrived at her house, her mom threw the front door open and started hollering at her, You were supposed to be home an hour ago, so I stepped forward and introduced myself (and dd) and we were acknowledged but no further conversation.

The next morning, this little girl shows up at our door, early am weekend morning, on her bike, helmetless, with her 3 year old sister on her trike!!! They'd like to come in and play.

I sent them on their way but felt awful. I believe she came over maybe twice more last summer/fall, but I always made an excuse that dd wasn't available to play, and that she should always have her mom phone me before she came over. I said, That's my rule. I talked to this little girl outside that day, and told her that I didn't think my dd liked to do the things that this little girl liked to do, and that she should find her friends that liked to do what she likes to do.

I tried to be nice.

That was almost a year ago; dd and this girl don't play at school, don't socialize (go to same events, birthday parties, etc) Since spring has finally arrived in our frozen country, this little girl has once again started appearing at our door, at incredibly inconvenient / unacceptable times (5:30 p.m.!!!), still doesn't say when she is supposed to be home or where her parents think she is (They just said I could go outside and play), I've never spoken to her mother since that first incident, told her again about our RULE about phoning first. I'm not getting thru.

I feel bad for this little girl. My dd tells me that she has NO friends in school. She gets in trouble all the time, for disrupting class, arguing, backtalking teacher. I've talked to dd about how sad it must be to have no friends. But at the same time - I'm not too happy about the negative influence I fear would happen in this situation; I could NEVER turn my child loose in the streets and go ring doorbells of people I don't know and go inside those houses, and ride the streets on an unsafe bike without a helmet.

I'm having a hard time discouraging this little girl from coming over. I kind of think I should phone her mom?! but I don't know exactly what I should say;

Hubby thinks I should answer the door with a white lie (She isn't home right now).

I'm a bad liar.

I hesitate contacting her parents because I do have a gut feeling that they are at best neglectful, and I'd like to address this situation without confronting them on their parenting skills (or lack thereof)

Is there a polite way to do this?

Yesterday, after we allowed this little girl into our backyard for a few minutes, and then I came up with the wonderful idea of walking her partway home while we took our dogs for a walk, she announced that she'd be able to come back to our house at 6 am Sunday. Yikes!!! I very firmly told her that there was no way she should phone before 10 am, and that she should definitely phone before she headed over here.

She phoned today at noon, we chose not to answer the phone; within half an hour she was pounding on her door and I sent her away by saying, Sorry, we're just too busy right now. Actually had to close the door in her poor little insistent face.

I need help!!!

[ChristieS]

Ooooh - this is a toughie. I think your instinct is probably right about her home life. I would also not want my child associating with someone I did not know well - but I feel really bad for that little girl. Have you considered calling social services? I have reservations about that - but I also think the little girl is in need of some help.

Good luck!

[kerrib]

Have you tried asking her teacher about her? perhaps someone else should step in at this point. I hate to sound alarmist, but maybe the local social service organization should step in. you never know how far the neglect goes. mind you, i'm not a parent yet (but I do have a referral!) but I would guess in those circumstances this girl's life is going to get worse before it gets better.

[nycfsa]

I think talking to the teacher is a great idea. Obviously, there's something that's not good about this poor little girl's home life. Maybe the teacher has some insight or will be willing to approach social services with you.

Is the little girl a bad influence on your daughter, or is it just that the parents are neglectful (no helmet, out at all hours...)? Honestly, I think I would let her come over to play (at a decent hour) now and then. Sounds like she needs someone like you and your daughter to be a good influence on her. She probably doesn't know much better.

[BabsCanada]

Thanx Christie and Kerry for quick replies, that's why I love this site!!!
My first thought was to approach the teacher - my girl and this girl are in the same classroom, and I've seen some interaction between teacher and this little girl, and I'm sure she's aware of some problems.
However, I think the teacher would be bound by confidentiality? Tho I suppose I would be free to express my concern and she would just have to weigh her reply to me very carefully, in view of confidentiality requirements.
One of my very good friends is a psych nurse in our health care system, and she is aware of this situation, and concurs with me: There is evidence of neglect but not of abuse. I hesitate to contact authorities.

Hubby proposed another scenario: How we react to this girl now could have repercussions in the future; bullying, vandalism, etc.

I'm just really unsure how to handle this.

Babs

[BabsCanada]

nycfsa,

I don't think I would call this girl a bad influence YET because there is no friendship established YET.

I'd like to be a positive influence on this girl, but the thing is, my dd really isn't interested in having this girl as a friend.

If dd WAS friends with this girl, I'd move heaven and earth to make sure she was exposed to our healthy family life.

I just don't know that I should force dd to be friends with her, when they have so little in common, and dd is pretty happy with the friends she has.

I have stressed to dd that it must be tough for a little girl who doesn't have friends! It actually breaks my heart.

But I can't solve ALL the worlds problems. Happy healthy home life aside, we all have our own priorities and causes and issues.

I am thinking that I will approach the teacher with just a brief history of what's been going on; in case our story put together with others will cause some intervention, because my gut tells me that something is very, very wrong.

Thank you for your input!

Babs

[lucyjoy]

I live in a neighborhood where kids freely ride thier bikes and just show up and knock on kids doors to play. While my 9 year old wears a helmet, most do not. I do have to tell his little friends not to come by or call before 9. When my son goes off the street somewhere to play, I do send a six mile range walkie talkie and ask where he'll be. While this girl might not be all that well supervised, I don't think it's all that strange in a lot of places. I think it's sad that you wouldn't encourage your daughter to be friendly to a child who obviously needs friends. Maybe your daughter could be a good influence on the other child rather then assuming the worst. If your daughter truely doesn't want to play with this girl, let her come to the door and tell the child she doesn't want to play.

Just a different opinion

[Leigh131313]

Looking back, my parents reallyshould have stepped in a few times. Kids DO influence each other, good and bad. I think its naive to think that this child would not influence yours. And your priority is your child.

If your daughter does not wish to be friends with this little girl, you really should talk to the teacher and her mother. You can talk to mom in a friendly way...just ask that she not come over without phoning first, you don't have to get into all of your feelings. Go from there

Leigh

[knudsons]

My Humble Opinion as a mother and a foster parent is this: I don't understand why you wouldn't encourage your child to be friend this child and use this as the perfect educational oppurtunity that is looking you in the eye. At 9 years old your child should know the difference between right and wrong. This would be the perfect chance to show her what some bad choices can be and present to her the chance to help make a difference in this little girls life. I do agree and have sent children home with little tales of being busy not home and not answering the phone but that was when children tried to overwhelm the system, early mornings late nights 15th call of the day. I taught my children all to befriend children such as the one you are describing as an example of how unfortunate some children can be. This little girl needs all the friends she can get and teaching your child it is not OK for a child to be singled out.
I would and have also talked to the teachers regarding my concerns and observations.

[joskids]

My opinion differs from some of the others. I disagree that your child should be offered as a sacrificial lamb to better influence this little girl. As a foster mother, I can tell you that not knowing a child's background could have a very swift and detrimental influence on your daughter. Children who have experienced abuse (and in this case you probalby shouldn't assume it but must consider it), can very quickly abuse other children even if you are ever watchful. As for reporting to social services, you'd better be sure before you make any kind of report. Children are removed at times without sufficient proof and you certainly wouldn't want to jeopardize a family without knowing pretty certainly. Yes, maybe speaking with a teacher is a good idea, depends on the teacher. I have no problem keeping my children near to my own home and deciding who they should and should not play with. I see too many children left to run around with absolutely no supervision and in our current society, I don't chose to parent that way. I don't feel guilty at all for carefully keeping an eye on friendships of my children (oldest is 8). There's no reason your daughter shouldn't be sweet to the young lady and definitely should not talk about her in any negative way but that doesn't mean you're responsible for this child's lack of friends. It's a shame, really, how many children are left to their own devices like she is being left. And a 3 year old coming to your door to play???????? It's absolutely appalling.

[BabsCanada]

Thank you all for your replies.
This would be different had my child indicated a willingness to be this child's friend - she hasn't and likely won't. I can't force her. We've talked about how tough it must be to not have any friends. It would be different if my child and this child had things in common, something to base a friendship on. They don't.
I won't call Social Services.
I don't think I'll call the mother.
I think I will approach the teacher and just say, Not sure if this is a problem at school, but we have *** coming to our house constantly and wanting to play, and she doesn't seem to understand my rules, and most of the time I'm sure her parents don't know where she is ...
And just see where that goes. I suspect there are probably lots of reported concerns, maybe enough of them and someone will approach the parents.
I grew up in this town. I talked to my mom tonight, and yes, at 10, I was allowed to go out on my bike and yes, my mom didn't necessarily know exactly where I was, but I was always home when I was supposed to be! and I would never have entered a house where my parents didn't know the people there. Never.
My other (white lie / excuse / concern) is that we have 2 large breed dogs - perfectly wonderful animals, my dd is their best friend, but this little girl is petrified of dogs, and I don't think I should be forced to supervise / control / contain.
So that would be my (white lie / excuse / concern) should I need to contact her parents. 'It's just not a good idea when *** is so afraid of dogs, and I have 2 large dogs'.
I appreciate all your input.
Babs

[BabsCanada]

joskids,
You have tapped in on one of my concerns - the sacrifical lamb thing.
My dd may have enough to deal with, being 'different' (race/adopted). I fear that befriending this needy child may cause ostracism that isn't deserved. Selfish, I know.
We have been very comfortable with adoption and dd being of mixed heritage. It's not a secret and we don't deny it and we don't advertise it. It's just how it is. We have been very aware that some people aren't comfortable. We don't go out of our way to force the issue. I don't sit back and allow negative comments! but I don't see any point in being confrontational.
If dd was outgoing socially, extremely self-confident, etc., I might encourage her to be friends with this little girl. But dd is quiet, shy, emotional and has her own struggles with fitting in and I can't force her to take on a role that she's not ready for.
I can certainly encourage her to be NICE! And I'm sure she is. I just think we need to have some boundaries here.
Babs

[definitelyjulia]

I kind of think when people or situations like this come into our lives there are some big lessons to learn for all of us. This little girl's persistance to join with your family I actually kind of admire. If she is a child that is being neglected or abused and she is seeking a safe haven or somebody to take notice that says a lot about her character and strength to survive a childhood of trauma. Although... going out unsupervised without a helmet doesn't really indicate abuse. It is in my opinion really poor judgement on the parents part. But then... I'm a safety nut so???

I guess your challenge is setting limits for her. Maybe you could go outside and sit down with her and have a talk about your rules and why she seems to not be able to follow them?

I don't think I would want to force my child to be friends with somebody she isn't comfortable with but I would want her to be kind and respectful. Maybe she could even tell her that she just doesn't feel like playing.

Good luck with this situation. I am concerned about this little girl and how lonely she sounds. It's very very sad.

Julia

[ddhuab]

I think, though, you are being a bit unfair to the girl, by tyring to impose your "rules" of contact when the truth is, your daughter would not want to make herself available to play with the girl regardless of whether she called ahead of visit at an appropriate time -- rather, the call would give you an opportunity to make up a "white lie," right? Thus, I think the alternative to making your daughter a sacrificial lamb by forcing her into friendship with this girl is to make her talk with the girl and tell her she doesn't want to play with her. Or, she could simply come to the door each day and say, I don't want to play with you today. This may put her in a very uncomfortable position, but that is facing the reality of dealing with relationships in life. You could role play with your daughter and let her rehearse such a conversation.

The other alternative is that you talk with the child's mother about not allowing her to come over uninvited. I don't think that would have to be such an awkward conversation. This is a 9 y.o. girl who may not remember (or choose to remember) the rule, and it would seem appropriate that you would discuss it with the mother (just as party invitations and sleepovers, etc. generally are expected to be reviewed by parents, not just arrangements made between children).

I think you should be able to deal with this issue seperately from any concerns over the state of parental neglect, etc. that you may be concerned with in the child's household.

D.

[BabsCanada]

I've talked to the teacher today, after telling her I understood she'd need to maintain confidentiality! but she did know immediately who I was talking about, and told me that the child is having some behaviour difficulties and that the mom is very on board and concerned, that I should feel comfortable phoning the mom to let her know that the child is appearing regularly / uninvited. Teacher didn't go into detail but it sounds like children's father watches them when the mom is at work, and that this arrangement is causing some family friction - the dad is less involved and does not participate in parenting or discipline, and tends to let the kids run a little wild. When I said that it was hard to say No and difficult to send her away, teacher said the child only responds to FIRM instructions - no wavering.

So if she shows up at suppertime tonite! I will be firm and tell her she must have her mother call me before she comes over. My rule. Again.

If she does call, I will try to have my daughter tell her she is not interested in playing.

Teacher confirms that my child and this child NEVER play together at school / recess, and she was quite surprised that we were having this problem.

I hope this child and her siblings and her parents find what they need.

Thanks for all your advice. I'll carry on and phone the mom if I need to.

Babs