[bromanchik]

Originally Posted by hopetoadoptblog

EVERYONE is being nasty to me, and making negative remarks on my feedback...SIMPLY because my opinion is apparently not the opinion of whole.

Since I am the one who made the post that upset you I would like to reiterate my questions.
Did you have a boyfriend at 13?
Are you still with him?
Do you consider a 13 year old to be a "man"?
Does having mature sexual organs make you a man or a woman despite your age?
Are the people we are at 13 determine who we are for the rest of our lives?

I am trying to figure out your reasoning. I think these are fair questions considering your statements.

[akcskye]

Did you have a boyfriend at 13? NO
Are you still with him? My only boyfriend is my husband of 11 years now...I was lucky.
Do you consider a 13 year old to be a "man"? No, read my post as akcskye above...that will clear that up.
Does having mature sexual organs make you a man or a woman despite your age? Of course not, read my post just above this one, as akcskye, and you'll see my view was mis-read. I mean I was SEVEN...JUST SEVEN, when I started cycling...by NO means was I a woman.
Are the people we are at 13 determine who we are for the rest of our lives? Again, read my post, and you'll see where I get that belief.

It's all good, I think I was just a victim of a well-intentioned post gone misread or one I should have thought out a little better.

Originally Posted by bromanchik

Since I am the one who made the post that upset you I would like to reiterate my questions.
Did you have a boyfriend at 13?
Are you still with him?
Do you consider a 13 year old to be a "man"?
Does having mature sexual organs make you a man or a woman despite your age?
Are the people we are at 13 determine who we are for the rest of our lives?

I am trying to figure out your reasoning. I think these are fair questions considering your statements.

[mom2GRLC]

I don't know how YOU should act.

I only know how my daughter's bmom has acted and the things we need from the relationship and have expressed it to her over and over again. Although she has made some effort.....our relationship has always been very unbalanced. She holds onto the feeling that SHE is her Mom which causes a lot of problems. She also feels resentful that I am in control of the visits and says when and how she can see her. On top of that their relationship doesn't have very much depth. All she wants to do is see her and play with her. She has not been very willing to answer any questions or share personal, family , medical history with her or us. She hasn't really shared very many stories of her pregnancy, birth, or first year. In the past when my daughter has expressed a lot of anger/sadness and questions she asked me what questions she had for her and when I told her she dissmissed her questions by saying she'll tell her when she's ready and when my daughters old enough to ask herself and to understand. I of course was furious...because I was offering her so much to her but all she was doing was taking and taking.

So for us....the best option for our family is ONLY written contact at this point.

[crick]

okay guys...let's take a breather....

It's a touchy topic and I want people to just kind of step back a bit and cool off.

Thanks!
Crick

[akcskye]

It's all good here...I think I just didn't express myself as good as I thought...

The heat of the posts came from my own post...and one last time...I apologize.

As for me...I'm already cooled off. haha

Originally Posted by crick

okay guys...let's take a breather....

It's a touchy topic and I want people to just kind of step back a bit and cool off.

Thanks!
Crick

[akcskye]

And that's so sad...the birth mother might be afraid that you'll twist what she says...but you are the type of person who will be open and honest.

Maybe as time passes she'll learn to trust you, and realize that all you want is what's best for your daughter.

I just wish she'd only realize that if she'd give a little, there would possibly be a little more openness in the future, if she and you and your daughter wanted it.

Originally Posted by mom2GRLC

I don't know how YOU should act.

I only know how my daughter's bmom has acted and the things we need from the relationship and have expressed it to her over and over again. Although she has made some effort.....our relationship has always been very unbalanced. She holds onto the feeling that SHE is her Mom which causes a lot of problems. She also feels resentful that I am in control of the visits and says when and how she can see her. On top of that their relationship doesn't have very much depth. All she wants to do is see her and play with her. She has not been very willing to answer any questions or share personal, family , medical history with her or us. She hasn't really shared very many stories of her pregnancy, birth, or first year. In the past when my daughter has expressed a lot of anger/sadness and questions she asked me what questions she had for her and when I told her she dissmissed her questions by saying she'll tell her when she's ready and when my daughters old enough to ask herself and to understand. I of course was furious...because I was offering her so much to her but all she was doing was taking and taking.

So for us....the best option for our family is ONLY written contact at this point.

[ddhuab]

I thought you were maybe going over the line in your reaction, not her, because to me, a very open adoptive relationship seems similar (thought not the same) relationship between birthmom and child as that between a special aunt or dear friend who visits often, or speaks to the child often.

In that case, I would evaluate the situation just like a situation with any other adult in question. Do I trust this person not to harm my child, either actively or passively? Will I be able to pick my child up at a moment's notice if need be? Will my child benefit from the stay away from home, by having fun and/or by growing closer to someone I would view as a role model for her?

I think it is great for a child to have a very special relationship with a particular aunt (or someone else) that is more "buddylike" and outside of the parental restrictions... children might talk to this person about things they might not feel comfortable speaking with to their parents, and a responsible adult friend can bridge the gap and help facilitate communication, I think.

From reading more of your situation, it doesn't seem like your daughter and her birthmother have such a close, intimate relationship. Perhaps the birthmother said this hoping they would have a chance to get closer. Maybe she wasn't actually expecting a sleepover any time soon (meaning, not for several years), so she was just "wishing aloud" and planting a seed for a future conversation between all of you, if your daughter wished for such a visit.

I think you should keep your mind open about such a visit in the future (and maybe start with not sleepovers, but a "day out" with just the two of them whenever your daughter expresses such a visit), but certainly be on the alert for how your daughter feels about it. I remember feeling very pressured by my father to visit him for months over the summer, when I really didn't want to (nor was it a healthy environment, although I never was harmed from being there). That would be the only issue over her speaking with your daughter first without your permission that concerns me. On the other hand, she might have just been "feeling her out" to see what her reaction would be.

Best of luck to you. Sounds like you are pretty secure in the decision you have made or are leaning towards.

D.

[mom2GRLC]

[quote=ddhuab]
"I think it is great for a child to have a very special relationship with a particular aunt (or someone else) that is more "buddylike" and outside of the parental restrictions... children might talk to this person about things they might not feel comfortable speaking with to their parents, and a responsible adult friend can bridge the gap and help facilitate communication, I think."

I respectfully dissagree.....I wouldn't want my child going to her bmom over me or my family...who knows our values, standards and beliefs.

"I think you should keep your mind open about such a visit in the future"

Again....I respectfully dissagree!!! Once a child is grown and out of high school I think that's the time for the child to open up more of a relationship if they choose to...and with full support of the adoptive family.

[shy_bear]

I take offense to you saying I muddled up boundaries in the start of our relationship. No I did NOT, b-grandma did. We started out as good people trying to do a favor to a young girl and her mom took advantage of our kindness in many ways. That is why we stepped up and said enough is enough and due to her actions she lost contact with us and M.

I am very capable of setting boundaries inour current relationship with birthmom; that is why we only now met the boyfriend. As far as I am concerned this is an ongoing learning process, I have never been in a relationship with a birthparent till our oldest was born. Excuse the rest of us for trying to do what is right and sometimes muddeling it up!

[Lucy_Mom]

Originally Posted by shy_bear

I have never been in a relationship with a birthparent till our oldest was born. Excuse the rest of us for trying to do what is right and sometimes muddeling it up!

I don't think being a birthparent comes with an instruction manual either!

I wonder if you overheard only part of the conversation if it's possible your daughter asked her birthmom if she could visit?

My birthson asked out of the blue in front of his amom if he could come and stay with me. I was very embarassed, and immediately said that he would have to ask his mom about it. I didn't even bring it up with her, it was something she had to decide if she was comfortable with or not.

I don't think she is but she also can see and does acknowledge that my son has a connection to and longing for his birthfamily -- he feels what he feels. He comes and stays for weekends, he talks about his feelings and says "I feel happy when I'm here." Sometimes he gets upset and says he wishes we had "kept him". That's painful all round but it is part of his reality and I am so glad that even at his tender age of six, he is able to express his sorrow and we can support him with it.

Lucy

[shy_bear]

Lucy, our kitchen is very close to where they were and M did not ask if she could come see birthmom or stay with her. I can not recall the last time M spoke about her birthmom. Of course we encourage both of our girls to ask any questions they have. Dialouge in our home is always open and adoption is a commonly used word esp. lately b/c we are embarking on another adoption. Both girls have known since they were little that they are adopted and have birthfamilies that love them. My little one has had some struggles b/c she sees M with her birthmom and her birthmom has chosen not to have contact with us. I don't think at this point in M's life she wants to be anywhere but here.

[mom2GRLC]

See...I think opening the door to much causes to much confusion for the child.

Of course as time passes the bparents circumstances change and even have children of their own.

I'm not so sure visiting at a bmom's home is the best.....especially unsupervised because it's a clear picture for them that they are not only welcome their...but like they have two homes and two moms.

They see a visible difference between what their life could have been like with their bparent and I think that puts a child in a position where they feel like they "can" choose where to stay or where home is or who Mom is.

I want my daughter to know her bmom but i don't want her to be that close and open with her until she is older. I think that's just added stress on the child during their growing up years...that they don't need to deal with.

I know in my case...any visit to HER home would be very hard for my daughter to deal with again from a foster adopt position where there was talk about her going back home...and her new MOM and then it never happening....to open that door again....would just be way to confusing and my daughter would think....that she might be going back to live with her again....or that she was going to be her mom again.

Maybe my situation is just blinding me to how things usually go in an infant open adoption but I can still see some of the same issues coming up.

Just the fact that your son said "some of the things he did" kinda proves my point.....if there hadn't have been such openness where there was an "option" for him then it might have been easier for him to just accept his family and not question "at least that young" why he couldn't have just stayed with you or can't stay with you now. His family would have been his family and he wouldn't know any different.

[manni28]

Hi,

I'm an adoptee ( so please don't think I'm being bias). I agree with the above poster ( mom2twogirls) I don't think it's really a good idea for a child( in an open adoption) to sleepover the bfamily home. And, to be honest, this is where I question open adoption and how much openness is really healthy for a child?


Lucy_mom said that her bchild expresses sadness and that he wishes he was "kept", I don’t think a child should be exposed to situations like this where he has these thoughts. Some may say it's good that the child is exposed to this at an early age, but we don't know how it may affect them psychologically later on .This is what I, as a, parent would worry about.


This thread has some very interesting points.

[momofmykids]

Originally Posted by manni28

Lucy_mom said that her bchild expresses sadness and that he wishes he was "kept", I don’t think a child should be exposed to situations like this where he has these thoughts. Some may say it's good that the child is exposed to this at an early age, but we don't know how it may affect them psychologically later on .This is what I, as a, parent would worry about.

I, too, was concerned about this particular post. I think 6 years old is just too young to have to process something so huge. We have a semi open adoption with the bmom of my sib group. I send letters and lots of pics and we talk on the phone, but there will be no contact between her and the children until they are 18 and only then if they want to. I just think it would be too confusing at the ages they are now.

jmho

[billysmommy]

From someone in a completely open adoption - with a first mom who pretty regularly says things without thinking - from your original post, I didn't get the "vibe" that there was anything sneaky, malicious or intentionally hurtful. Rather, my first thought was that she doesn't know what it's like to be on the "parenting" end and have that child whine, beg, and plead for whatever it is they were promised from whoever. And I also think that she is just probably excited about the direction her life has taken, and just wanted to share it with her child.
My four year old (who STILL doesn't even sleep in his own room, much less someone else's home) will cry until he has no tears left at the mention of his friends having a sleepover. So, as a parent, I totally understand why you would be upset about her not discussing it with you first. And really, I think the best thing to do is to tell her that.
I will respectfully disagree with some of the other posters. I do not feel that an adoptee having a close relationship with their first family is , in itself, harmful to the child. Personally, I would base my decision not on the fact that they are "birthfamily", but on the fact of their safety and morals. If I felt that my child would be safe and held to the same morals we parent with, then I would have no problem with alone time, or even overnight visits. My children have spent plenty of time with their first family ( though they are still a bit too young for overnights at 2 and 4) and do not have any confusion as to who their Mom and Dad are, where they live.
I do not feel that I am burdening with their adoption, rather I feel that I am enriching their life by including their biology, their history and their family. Is it too heavy of a weight for my children to visit their grandparents who live out of state because they may feel sad that they can't live there and see them every day? It's a part of life - their life - and what they benefit from it far outweighs the burdens.
JMO