[MMC66]

I've mentioned this ona couple of other threads but thought I'd throuw this out there as a thread of it's own.

My nine year old has recently been diagnosed with ADD/ADHD. I have known from a very early age that there was something different about her developmentally but could never put my finger on it. She did OK when she started school but was always a little below average and had some social problems as well.

I was one of those people who criticized the number of kids pegged with the ADD/ADHD diagnosis and really trashed on the number of kids running around on meds. So as per usual, I am having to eat my words. We first went to a developmental pediatrician who diagnosed her with ADHD and I wasn't ready to hear it so I looked long and hard for a counselor that I felt comfortable with and that was willing to observe her at school before coming to any conclusions. Anyway, I have finally accepted the diagnosis.

This year at school has been particularly hard, she is really struggling and my DH and I find ourselves reteaching much of what was covered during the day, she has problems socially due to her issues with talking/acting before or without thinking. It is becoming harder and more painful to watch and it is clear from talking to her that she feels like there is something else controlling her if that makes sense. She'll say thing like " I hope I can behave at school today" it's just heartbreaking. We are currently working on a "504 plan" apparently she falls outside of the guidelines for an IEP.

Sorry so long and thanks for reading this far I am being encouraged to consider meds and that totally freaks me out. I want input, I want support. Would love to hear from those with more experience than I have (which isn't much)

Oh and to complicate things more, she is a twin and her twin sister is an accelerated student who seems to lead a charmed life and succeed at everything (from her perspective)

Thanks for listening,
Martha

[Momoffive1966]

I can relate to you exactly. My husbands little sister was adopted when DH was 24. She was diagnosed ADHD at age 5. MIL started meds right away. I was so angry because I seemed to be able to get good behavior from her (I babysat from age 18 months, 5 days a week)
We moved away when she was 6. I was so critical of meds and always thought they were medicating to avoid discipline. I also thought ADD/ADHD was over diagnosed.
They used ritalin and aderol and many other meds....amped her up in the day and gave sleeping meds at night...I saw a definite change in her with tics and obvious changes in her personality. I felt they over medicated in exchange for not disciplining.
It is true that they are NOT firm discipliners and now she is age 16 and out of hand. She is a strange girl, she does not mesh with her peers and she is very odd.

Now flash forward. We adopted Makenna at 12 months. I did not pick off ANY behavioral issues then. She was full of life, took great naps, ect. No evidence of ADHD at all until age 4. At 3.5 we noticed there were some development milestones emotionally she was not meeting...by age 4 she was melting down 6-10 times a day and totally out of hand. From the onlooker it seemed we just has a brat we did not discipline. When we adopted Mo and Jack...who were 8 and 5 at the time....we really saw the difference. Makenna was just not capable of meshing with a group, she was conflictive ON EVERY LEVEL. She was incapable of working together and her ability to learn from her mistakes was ZERO. She stopped napping at age two and was laying awake in her bed until 9 or 10pm because she just couldn't wind down....it was terrible. We had as much trouble with her as we did our FAS and PTSS child and sometimes MORE. To top that off she walked on her tip toes 95% of the time and was diagnosed with soft CP and wears AFO leg braces 23 hours a day!!! SHe just couldn't catch a break....

We went to the Ped in May 2005 to evaluate. Diagnosis of ADHD. I was devestated. First we tried to continue behavioral modification. It got worse and worse. In Dec 06 we tried Ritalin...she was a zombie with facial tics and she wet her pants and when she came down off of it (they call it rebounding) she spun like a top for an hour and was unbearable. After two weeks of that, I said forget it...I'd rather deal with the integration and hyper activity and conflictive behavior problems than watch my child sink into a hole.
So the Ped suggested we try STRATTERA. At first I was resisting but when he explained that it was not a STIMULANT, It helped her body produce it's own adrenalin(sp) The doc said it took a month to work. For the first week I saw no changes. Week two was a little scary, she cried ALOT it was interesting to see her start to feel REAL emotions. I think that's the time when most parents get scared of the med and stop it but we just talked her through it and explained what was happening to her. Week three, she started to become very loving and kind and by week four we saw her begin to conentrate in school (we home school) We upped the dose to 25 MG and now I have the little girl who sleeps well and is acting like a pretty normal kid. Strattera has changed her life. I WAS SO ANTI Meds!!!!! But for Makenna's sake....I was willing to try anything.I can't even begin to explain how much. Life was miserable and she will only be 5 in May. It is beautiful to see her come to me for a hug and a kiss now and see her not tormenting her brother and sister and able to learn and start to read and the list goes on and on.....don't be afraid to try meds but please give STRATTERA a try....I would avoid the stimulants if you can. Plus, strattera is a 24 hour time release and we give it at dinner time and we have no tummy side effects. It makes her a little tired at first, so bed time is now a breeze. Hang in there and I wish you luck. I understand completely. PM me ANY time.

Jillian

[MMC66]

Oh Jillian, that means so much to hear your story. A's story isn't quite the same as your daughter's but the theme's are exactly the same. She goes to bed great, can fall asleep easily by 8:30 but is up EVERY MORNING at 6:00 talking non-stop and bouncing off the walls. It doesn't even matter if she has been up late - she is always up super early.

And I totally know what you mean by learning from her mistakes - very little of that going on.

Be glad you started early before it really took it's toll orn her self esteem, we're definitely facing that right now which is horrible and as the academic challenges increase, it becomes more of a problem at school.

Anyway, I can't thank you enough. My pediatrician is not a big fan of Strattera, she says kids get extremely sedated with it. Your story was helpful though. I will dfinitely try to make an informed decision when it comes to meds. Stand by, I'll most defintely use you as a resource.

Martha

[773-mom-to-be]

From a teacher's experience and point-of-view....

ADHD *is* overdiagnosed, and many children *are* overmedicated, BUT...you know ADHD when you see it. It's the disconnect and frustration you cited on the part of the child that helps distinguish learning disability instances from discipline problem instances. And some of the most brilliant, well-rounded, mature, amazing students I've had over the years have had ADHD -- when they accept the challenge they have to live and learn with, and they, along with parents and teachers, move forward WITH it rather than fighting AGAINST it, it seems like many of these kids develop a sense of self and individuality well beyond their peers. But that's just my ten years of seeing it in teenagers.

You're SURE your child doesn't qualify for an IEP? That doesn't sound quite right....

But most importantly, the best thing you can do is become a Special Services (special ed) ninja. You are your child's best advocate, and the most successful ADHD students I've worked with have the most informed and involved parents. Lemme know if there's anything on the school-front I can help you out with, info-wise....

[redbonec]

Also from a teacher point of view (of young children--Kindergarten and first grade)--

I second what has been said--it is the frustration on the part of the child--they want to be on good behavior but cannot seem to, they don't understand their impulses, and it is so frustrating to them to have a goal of "being good" for the day and then be so upset with not acheiving that goal. I totally understand what you mean when she says she feels that something else is controlling her.

Here is what I have noticed--children who are medicated correctly (not all medications work for all people--what works for some may not for others, and sometimes this takes more than one attempt) can have amazing results. Results with behavior, academics, socializing with peers.
Unfortunately, I do have a child in my class this year who I believe is overmedicated. I have talked with mom about it, and just this week I have called her again to conference about it. It is sad--he takes his meds in the a.m. and right after lunch. At recess he just sits and stares, doesn't want to run or participate. Other teachers have commented how he is always so "calm" in the hallway. Sometimes if too many children are talking at once, the noise bothers him. Anyway, that to me is overmedicated.

Personally, I believe you can tell what the right medication and dosage is when you don't see their behavior as very different from others the same age. I have had children in my class who are on medication, and I did not even know it until the parents told me a few weeks later. They were not "perfectly behaved" kids--just another student. With the right medication, they are not "zombies" but still exhibit their own personalities.
A boy in my class last year ran out of medication a couple times--he would spin on the floor, run and bounce off walls in the hall, make niose. On medication, he was able to act like a child--wanting to participate in the lesson, be proud of himself for doing his work, socialize, play, tell me jokes, use manners, and be able to verbally express himself. To me, proper medication (if needed) actually brings out the true personality of a child becuase they are in a position to show it, and not constantly battling the "something else controlling" thing in their head.

I am not telling you to use medication. If I had a child with ADD or ADHD I would be considering all options as well. Since you asked about medications, I just wanted to give examples of what I have seen.

I wish you luck in your upcoming decision!

[AdrienneG]

Did you know that the only way to confirm for sure a child has ADHD is through a brain scan?

Children who are not going to bed early enough and are exhausted, or who are having food allergies will present as hyperactive, so will some children who eat lots of junk food including sugar.

A neurologist can confirm ADHD through a brain scan, seriously.

Too many children are diagnosed without even a brain scan and it ends up a misdiagnosis.

A hyperactive child doesnt always mean ADHD...doctors need to rule out other factors as well.

P.S. I have a 6 year old cousin who was never diagnosed by a doctor for ADHD. A teacher said he had it and refused to accept him in her class unless he took Ritalin. Teacher has no medical degree. This is the worst case scenerio for our children...when teachers can demand that they be on medication in order to be in her class.

[redbonec]

Originally Posted by AdrienneG

P.S. I have a 6 year old cousin who was never diagnosed by a doctor for ADHD. A teacher said he had it and refused to accept him in her class unless he took Ritalin. Teacher has no medical degree. This is the worst case scenerio for our children...when teachers can demand that they be on medication in order to be in her class.

I assume the teacher did not know she was doing. By law, a teacher cannot say that she thinks the child has ADHD, cannot recommend that a child be tested for ADHD, and certainly not demand medication, because of the very reason you stated--teachers do not have medical degrees and ADHD is a medical diagnosis. Certainly in many cases other factors look like ADHD but is not. Hence, a diagnosis needed by a good doctor.

[MMC66]

I had not heard of the "brain scan diagnosis" and I have been doing a lot of reading, where did you hear this? I know a lot of research is being done using MRI to try to identify the differences between those with aDD/ADHD and those without but it's still seems pretty early to use it to form a difinitive diagnosis. In fact, some of the stuff I have read recommends not using a neurologist because they tend to be quick to diagnose and medicate whereas, psychologists and developmental pediatricians tend to be more suited to look at the big picture of the person's life and addressing all aspects.

I'm sorry your family had a bad experience with an incompetent teacher, I have heard similar stories

I did not come upon this diagnosis lightly, it took me literally YEARS to accept and she was diagnosed by two competent doctors through completely separate evaluations.

From red and 773 - I REALLY appreciate the teachers' perspective. The last thing I want to do is medicate unnecessarily or too much. I think I am ready to try it though since I see what a toll it is taking in every area of her life. I have another glitch as my ex (her father) is ADIMANT that no meds be given so I have to convince him as well even though he has done nothing to educate himself or talk to A's counselor etc

You guys have no idea how much your info and support means to me.

Thanks again,
Martha

[LisaCA]

hey martha,

sorry to hear you guys are going thru this, esp with an oh-so-helpful ex.

meds are like everything else, very individual. it may be that she only needs a light dose. The long term zombies are probably the parents not following their gut and letting the doc determine the dose.

hope it works out. I know that while I'm a tad toward the natural, organic thing myself, I can't live without medications. they make it so I can function without migraines, asthma, allergies, GERD taking over my life. Sometimes meds are a good thing, but you have to be smart about them as you know.



lisa

[MMC66]

Meds go against my whole philosophy on medical care "DENIAL CURES EVERYTHING" (not really) but I do tend to use interventions like medication or anything otherwise invasive as a last resort so this has been really hard to come to terms with. She is really starting to suffer both academically and socially despite all the less drastic measures that we have tried.

It still may be a while though without the consent of her father

Thanks Again,
Martha

[redhedded]

Martha, It is clear that you have examined other possibilities and have processed the diagnosis, with great advocacy and consideration. I am all for the natural route and do not ever medicate anyone, myself or kids, when it is not necessary. However, ADHD/ADD can be no different that my son's tachycardia, a medical issue that requires pharmacological intervention. When he was a 5 lb baby and I gave him Propanolol every 6 hours, I wondered about the side effects and worried but knew (as long as I was advocating for him, felt good about our doctor, his testing, his diagnosis and the available treatments) that I was doing the right thing.

The whole picture has to be a factor; when self esteem/confidence suffers, social adjustment suffers, and the child is unable to reach his potential in every aspect of his life, the right medication can be a miracle.

I worked with many kids in community residential, who thrived, once the correct med/dosage was found. Some kids, however, had parents who opted not to use medication when they should have considered, and it was the children who suffered. I do not think it is always the solution and should never be embarked on lightly, but with a great advocate who knows her kid and watches the signs post med trial, it can make a world of difference.

I hope that you all find a common meeting ground.

[jazpete]

Hi, Check this web site out. You will find information and possibly some help.
http://www.hriptc.org/HRI.html

[Kara J]

Ok guys... SO glad I found this thread... I need some advice here.... First if all I am an elementary school teacher... I teach 2nd, 3rd, and 4th grade students who are at risk accademically.... basically I tutor all day and MANY of my students are ADD/ ADHD kids... some on meds, some are not... I too feel that ADD/ADHD is overdiagnosed, and yet see the many WONDERFUL things that happen when a child is properly diagnosed and placed on meds... I guess my intent is to saythat I am very Pro meds when they are NEEDED... All that being said, this brings me to my delima... I have an almost 4 year old (June 28) who is displaying the following signs: EXTREMELY active, very strong willed, never learns form his mistakes and will continue the behavior no matter what the consequence, very arguementative, and the list goes on... He still sleeps with us because I can't get him to go to bed... I literally am the bedtime poice... I lay down with him at night and watch him and have to continually remind him to close his eyes... he will do that until he finally just falls asleep... No matter what time he goes to bed, he is up around 5:00... sometimes earlier... 3 mornings last week he beat me up and set the alarm for 5 a.m. in order to get to school on time. I am tired, but yet I can handle him... my question is, is he too young to be diagnosed? Would you start your child on meds? My thinking has been to wait until he begins school when his accademics may become a problem, but I don't want him emotionally scarred before then... I just really don't know what to do... He is one of the sweetest most loving and caring children I have ever met (when he's not having a melt-down) Do I take him to a pediatric doc or to psychiatrist? Where do you get a brain scan done... just at the hospital? Does your Pedi write the order?

I know I probably sound crazy here... I am a professional... it is just so different with my child being so young... Is this normal behavior for a 3 year old? I am willing to accept a diagnosis, but sometimes I think I over analize everything.... I just wonder sometimes if I just think too much...

Thanks for letting me vent and I will TRULY appreciate any advice I get... Thanks in advance!

Love and Hugs!
...Kara


P.S. As a side note, both of my son's birthparents were on medication for ADHD, and have other mental health problems as well, and his bio brother has been diagnosed with ADHD and Oppositional Defiant Disorder... are the signs I just told you about sound more like ADHD or are they much more severe and maybe warrant other mental health problems? I have tried to research it, but see very little to do with that young of an age.... Like I said he is very loving and caring... VERY hyper, but doesn't ever hurt others unless it is by mistake when he is just clowning around and being really hyper...

[MMC66]

Hi Kara,
Weird isn't how you can feel so together and smart, then when it's your child, everything you ever learned goes out the window

I can't help you diagnose your child. But I have to say, I found the developmental pediatrician a really helpful place to start and actually we went pretty late in A's life, he was used to evaluating much younger children. I would talk to your pediatrician and see if there is someone in your area that you can see that your insurance will cover. Our insurance covered all but about $60 and it was worth every penny.

I wish you lots of luck on your parenting journey - it's quite a ride isn't it.

Martha

[Kara J]

Thanks so much! I have never heard of a developmental pedi, I will have to check into that... We live in a fairly small town in Texas, but not far from Houston, Texas... they should have someone there... Thanks again! ... Kara