[AMom2Two]

This is a question that I am wondering.

I read a thread this morning by an adoptee and in her thread were some very hateful posts from adoptee's who hate adoption.

I was sharing this with a women at my dd preschool this afternoon when I picked her up. This woman adopted her children from China. She told me when she thought of adoption, her first thought was to do domestic adoption, but she started reading things that left her very upset, along the same lines of things I read earlier.

She said she choose international adoption because the children seem to accept adoption much better. Maybe it's because they were placed in an orphange and are thankful to have a family, that makes the difference. They don't seem to have the anger issues as much as some of the adoptee's from our country. They don't seem to hate the adoptive parents and feel BLESSED that they were adopted.

I never heard of this before, but I wonder, is it true? Do our own adoptee's have more anger then adoptee's who came from oversea's? This woman who adopted from China certainly believes it. I don't know if I believe it or not.

What are your thoughts?

[heartened]

I honestly don't know - I do notice that among the adoptees I know, the ones who came out of orphanages or foster seem "more" satisfied than the ones who were direct placements.

It's also good to remember that whenever you're reading on a forum, people are here because they have an interest in the topic. There are likely hundreds of thousands of adoptees who have never given their adoptions more than a passing thought - you're not likely to find too many of them here.

Also keep in mind that most of the adoptees you hear from were adopted in the 70's or earlier. The way adoptions were conducted then, versus now, is like comparing apples and asparagus - they both start with a, and that's as far as similarities go.

We won't really be able to determine if international adoptees are "more" content than domestic for probably another 30 years - it's a relatively new trend, all things considered.

Focus on being the best parent you can, loving your child as much as you can and being as honest with them as you can. That's what defines a "successful" adoption - not whether or not a child grows up curious about where they came from. Curious doesn't equal unsuccessful.

[sneezyone]

I can't imagine why that would be true. If anything, I think we've yet to see what the new generations of international (often transracial) adoptions will feel about their U.S. placements. Anectdotally, some of the most hateful/angry adoptee posts I've seen have come from Asian adoptees who were raised in cc families. But it seems to me that adoptee anger has more to do with poor/uninformed parenting than the location of the 1st family.

[AMom2Two]

Originally Posted by FH-heartened

The way adoptions were conducted then, versus now, is like comparing apples and asparagus - they both start with a, and that's as far as similarities go.

LOL LOL Good one heartened!!! I'm cracking up over that comparison!!! LOL

[Bug-n-Bears-Mommy]

I have to agree with the time thing. I think that the perception of adoption has evolved to a level where it will be interesting to see if children placed today will have the anger or resentment of children adopted say 30 years ago. I know I never even KNEW an adopted person growing up. Now it seems to be everywhere. I also know that my MIL has a terrible fear of the open adoption arrangements we have with our birth parents. HER MIL (an adoptive mother herself) thinks it is wonderful. She adopted in the 70's and her children are very resentful and angry that their adoptions were sealed.

[redhedded]

K, I think for every several wonderful and happy international adoptees you can find one that is extremely dissatisfied. A quick perusing on the internet you will find probably hundreds of Korean and Vietnamese adults adopted thirty years ago who are extremely unhappy, believing that they not only lost their first families but also their language, "culture" and religion. I have a friend to whom this happened; as an adult she changed her name and has made contact with her Korean family. It is the result of adoptive parents who did not treat her like she deserved.

Of course, there are just as many happy well adjusted adoptees of 1970's international adoptions. I think much of the key is whether the parents, like any parent, loved their child unconditionally and did not act as though they did them a big favor. Watch Daughter of Danang; you will see that sometimes parents constantly reenforce the idea that they gave their child everything, that they did them a favor, that they saved them rather than recognizing the things that they lost. I think many act as though their children owe them, which by the way, happens all of the time in biological families. Secondly, I think those, especially with the awareness and huge effort that people make today, who share their child's heritage and history with them, who celebrate their culture and value and expose the beauty of that culture are not likely to have these issues.

Like anything I always believe that a child's emotional/spiritual health is only as great as the adults who influence, love and comfort him. As adults people can create their emotional health sometimes by overcoming trials and difficulties and finding strength, comfort and confidence that they never knew that they had.

Anytime we evaluate another's writing, words, experience we have to do just that, remember that it is personal, their reality, their experience, their journey and that is not reflective of others or to be presumed about others.

[redhedded]

Wanted to add something personal. I think that sometimes a child or adult's feeling of loss (I always think of Elizabeth's posts on identity confusion) is mistaken for anger, regret. I know, very personally, that this is not the case. My husband came here with his mother after the Vietnam War, at the age of four. His biological father is Thai. Dh was raised with his mother and step, later adoptive, father. He loves his parents, is appreciative of his life, is who he is because of his experiences, is full and happy but lost a lot. He lost his "culture" (though it was still alive in his home), he lost the ability to easily communicate in Thai, which is really emotionally hard when you return to your homeland. He lost his mother's family, all of them, with whom he was extremely close. It does not mean that he is unhappy or that his family was not wonderful; he feels extremely blessed, but it is important to recognize and validate what was lost.

[AMom2Two]

Originally Posted by FH-redhedded

A quick perusing on the internet you will find probably hundreds of Korean and Vietnamese adults adopted thirty years ago who are extremely unhappy, believing that they not only lost their first families but also their language, "culture" and religion. I have a friend to whom this happened; as an adult she changed her name and has made contact with her Korean family. It is the result of adoptive parents who did not treat her like she deserved.

((redhedded))

THANK you for sharing!!! The above quote is how I felt initially about this question.

I thought that the international adoptee losses so much more then the domestic adoptee, as you stated above, so I had a hard time believing they were happier then domestic adoptee's.

[Sleeplvr]

I don't think that International adoptee's are more satisfied then domestic adoptee's. That's just something the adoptive mom is saying to make herself feel better. Sounds like she wants to be a savior to a child.

[joskimo]

Adoptions of children in the 60's and 70's was different, I understand that a lot of adoptive parents were instructed to raise the children to be just like the family, in other words, to deny the cultural heritage.

Even in a closed domestic adoption, most adoptive parents now do try to honor adoptive children's heritage and educate and expose them to their culture in a variety of manners. I think this is a real pendulum swing so I agree that it's comparing different situation.

And on a side note, my husband was a domestic transracial adoptee and very well adjusted

[Shoshana]

I don't have time to answer this post in depth, but wanted to reply quickly.

I think the notion that there will be less of a chance of "anger" or "issues" with international adoptees is a huge myth and that parents who raise their children with this understanding are doing themselves and their children a potential great disservice. There is a fair amount of literature on the topic -- one easy to read presentation that comes to mind was written by an adoptive mother, Cheryl Register. The book is entitled "Beyond Good Intentions" and it is about raising internationally adopted children.

The notion that ANY adoptee would or should feel "grateful" is just antiquated!

[Aleea]

About the greatful orphan myth...
I recently saw something on tv that really didn't sit well with me. It was a documentary on Russia, I think it was called Siberia, but I'm not sure. Anyways, it briefly touched on children in Russian orphanages and they had a girl who was adopted by an American couple read a speech about how grateful she is that she was adopted and taken out of her orphanage to have a better life and so on. Just really rubbed me the wrong way.

[Lexie]

Its defintely a myth. I have read many boards with Asian Adoptee posters that are very angry. I also have two cousins that were internationally adopted and they are not. Just like domestic adoptions (or bio families for that matter), it depends on the child, the family and the circumstances.

[AMom2Two]

Originally Posted by Aleea

Anyways, it briefly touched on children in Russian orphanages and they had a girl who was adopted by an American couple read a speech about how grateful she is that she was adopted and taken out of her orphanage to have a better life and so on. Just really rubbed me the wrong way.

I don't understand why this would rub you the wrong way. What is so wrong about an adoptee from an orphange being grateful that they were adopted? For this poor girl to be in a orphange and to have finally found a family, probably filled her with lots of happy emotions. I'm sure her living conditions were a nightmare. Should she not feel happy or lucky or grateful that she was chosen over the hundreds of other children that were left behind? For her to say she is grateful is not wrong. It is how she feels. I see nothing wrong with that, I'm sorry.

What I think is wrong is when aparents THINK THE CHILD should be grateful to THEM. There is a big difference between a girl growing up in an orphanage, finding a home and being grateful that she has one and an aparent telling a child, you should be grateful we adopted you.

If it comes from the adoptee, I think that is fine, but it should NEVER, EVER COME from an the adoptive parent. For we adults are truly the one's grateful to have our children.

[Shoshana]

That's just it, Amom, the pressure to recognize the "gift" of adoption often does come from the parents, even strangers -- it's part of the whole "adoption is a lovely thing" myth. Yes, parts of adoption are lovely. Parts are also painful and involve loss.

I don't think ANY child should experience pressure to feel grateful - bio or adopted. In my rosy view of the world, children should have the right to be born into healthy and secure homes. When they are not, when they are placed for adoption, placed into an orphanage, rescued from a life of poverty or abuse, MANY people think the child is lucky and hence, the corresponding emotion that would be appropriate for the child to experience would be gratitude.

I do not think that children, regardless of their backgrounds can truly understand gratitude. (Re the Russian adoptee example above -- happy, lucky, yes, and at least equally petrified). By the time of adolescence, the feelings of luckiness or happiness or pride at one's adoptive status are sometimes replaced by a sense of unfairness. Why me? -- Not "it's unfair that I was rescued from a life of XY&Z" but "why wasn't I born into the happy, healthy, secure, and loving family like (apparently) all of the other kids" (and yes, why did I have to be adopted -- note that this does not mean the child's adoptive home is unloving or unhappy!)

Sorry, I'm rambling and I doubt I'm even being clear. I guess I think it's important for adoptive parents to assure their children that they do not expect gratitude because I can guarantee you, the child will get that message loud and clear from plenty of other people.

Aside: Thanks Red, you do understand. Nothing irritates me more than when my perceptions or experiences as an adoptee are dismissed because someone quickly (and wrongly) labels me an "angry" or "wounded" adoptee. But then again, it does speak volumes -- what better way to maintain all of the harmful mythology that surrounds adoption than to dismiss or deny the very people it impacts the most?