[twinsbk]

My daughter(9) was placed in our home on 12/2/05. Last night she cried and yelled for 2 hrs. The last time I entered the room she calmed down and I found out, all of this was because she was hungry. The rules of the house are no eating after 9pm because this is bedtime.

This crying spell upset the entire house and I don't understand why she couldn't tell me this. I explained communication and allowed her to fix a sandwich. Now I'm questioning myself of why I didn't follow the rules.

I need help on this!!

[Charlene]

Hi twinsbk,I am not sure I understand what you are asking. Did you say this child has only been in your home since dec.2,of this past year? Is this the first time she has ever lived with you?
If that is so maybe she was just scared or lonely.
Or maybe just hungry for companionship of some kind.
As for you letting her "get" her "way" by allowing her to eat,,,it just sounds to me like you are a compassionate person.
Sorry if I didn`t help any but good luck.

[aMarylandfamily]

Congrats on your new daughter ... while consistency can be so important, just as important is flexibility and the ability for the child to come to you with problems ... even if as simple as "I'm hungry" .... she needs to understand that you are always there ... and that while she was allowed to fix a sandwich last night that was an exception to the rule ... for the next few nights, unless you have a snack ritual, I would start asking her about 8:15 ... time for snack? ... if you are hungry now is the time ... make her answer you - then she has given you her 'choice' which you must then stick to ... no matter how much shrieking is going on ...

Another suggestion, depending on her past placements or even situation in birthfamily home, is to determine if she was denied a snack or dinner for whatever reason and possibly a healthy snack can be placed on her dresser (fruit, granola bar, jello + one small snack size candy bar per day til she gets the need down to nothing) which she is allowed to eat at any time ... takes away the fears of not having something if needed. Hope that made sense.

Keep us posted ... many challenges are ahead ... may of us here have been through them and 10 pieces of advice will find the right one just for you and your situation at the time.

[twinsbk]

Charlene and aMarylandfamily,

Yes she has been with us since December the past year. And I understand that there is a adjustment period. I just found out that this is the longest place she's been since 2/17/05.

aMaryland thanks for those suggestions I will ask her tonight. I've also asked her to write down the foods she likes but she won't do it. One night she said she want mac & cheese. I fixed it but she wouldn't eat it. (Not homemade - she wanted it from the box)

[aMarylandfamily]

Many kids who have experienced multiple placements (even just two) have difficulty with food - and the fears that come from those are very realistic ... some foster parents have a variety of special needs children and make a rule and stick to it ... including "I don't care if you like it, eat it or don't but you are not getting anything else" and in today's world that just is no longer feasible ... if she stays with you and as she develops relationships and activities you are just starting the age where they are never home when you are eating and you make adjustments to suit her schedule and yours at the same time ... we now require our 13 year old to eat with us only one night a week so he can be out and active - makes them happier. And if she were to make you a list she might be fearful that those are the only things you would prepare ... again unrealistic to you and I but very realistic to her. Our first placement years ago - 8 year old boy - had a history of stealing food from foster family's freezer ... eating things frozen even - we filled two cookie jars ... one healthy, one not ... and he could get anything out of them that he wanted but he had to have one of both each time ... the first few days we had to refill it a couple times ... even questioned our philosophy but by about day five he was only getting a snack once or twice a day and eventually not at all as security set in with foods and our being there ... Until you get a handle on what she likes or doesn't like ... figure out something she definitely likes and even though an inconvenience to you ... tell her for the first week until I see what you like that I cook and what you don't (putting the blame on you - not her - so she has no reason to feel guilty) ... I'm going to cook our dinner and say - a grilled cheese sandwich ... you can have your sandwich and then we want you to taste what I have cooked and let me know if you like the way I cook ... now granted she's immediately going to say she hates what you have cooked but make sure you cook that again through the week and see if you get the same response twice .... that way you are taking both the pressure and the control away from her and putting it in your hands.

Again - hoping this helps ... all advice from one or two coupled with two or more will give you magic solutions that work ... ok - I'll get off my computer and back to something useful before another day escapes!

[WaitingMom22]

Are you adopting her or is it a foster situation? I think either way the below suggestions apply.
I like aMarylandfamily's suggestion about making your normal dinner and than having something else for her to eat if she tries it and does not like it. There are two things going on, one her world was just drastically changed and two she is 9. My step-daughter is 16 and can still be a pain about what she will and will not eat. Be less concerned about getting her trust and love than sticking to rules. If a kid is hungry they need to be able to eat and I think it is totally old-fashion and mean to force kids to eat something they hate. Tell her that this adjustment will take time but that you can work through it together. Bring her food shopping and give her a list of items to pick or an amount of money if she is capable and let her pick things. Maybe get some frozen dinners and the whole family will eat whatever frozen dinner they want one night and another night make Kraft Mac and Cheese for the family...with hotdogs on the side is a fun treat for kids. Or find a side dish that she likes and make extra of it so that she can fill up on the mashed potatoes or mac and cheese instead of the chicken. Realize that she has probably had no control over her 9 years of life and it is not a bad thing for you to give her control. Also, she is probably scared to tell you what she really wants.

[numbr1dbcksfan]

If I was younger and I asked for mac and cheese (a generally benign request) and someone put homemade mac and cheese in front of me. I 100% think I would have cried. Then the realization of nothing being what it seems would set in and I too would be scared to request anything after that. Afraid of what I would get.. hahaha!

I used to think homemade mac and cheese was down right gross. A traumatic experience like that would be "the end of the world"... what do these people do when you ask for a hamburger? lol... Know what I mean? Id be like.. oh no.. Im not asking for anything after that.... hahaha

[AwaitingBeloved]

Hi twins.

I'm wondering if she really was hungry or if it was just an excuse that she knew you'd accept so it'd be acceptable for her to cry and scream. I wonder if she's having feelings she doesn't understand or know what to do with.

I had a similar experience when I was an early teen. My sister (9 years older than me) found me up alone one night just crying my eyes out. I had no idea why I felt the way I did but needed to cry so bad. And I didn't have the trauma that your daughter is enduring. My sister was so great, she, like you, tried so hard to figure it out and solve it for me. But I didn't know what needed to be solved so certainly couldn't tell her if I didn't know. I ended up telling her it was about a boy at school because I really just wanted to be left alone to cry. So I'm wondering if your daughter maybe just needed to cry. What a roller coaster ride she's been on. You know?

Maybe she was hungry, but maybe not. Maybe tonight you can gently bring it up, and if she doesn't want to talk about it, don't push her, but let her know that you are there when she's ready to talk about it (not if...when).

I don't think you did a bad thing breaking your rules, either. It lets her know that she is important enough to be taken care of specially when she needs to be. So even if she wasn't hungry, the sandwich was a good idea. At least to me. Then again, anything to do with food, I generally think is a good idea. lol!

[4inma]

alot of people brought up some good points.


Id just like to take this moment to point out that one can not assume she has the maturity and ablitly to ask for what she needs.

alot of older kids that come from the 'system' are on survival mode. They learn through certain things on how to get attention and get what they want.

This is NOT their fault! But we as parents have to teach them what is an appopriate way to ask for things and screaming and yelling isnt one of them.

but also, keep in miind, is that is probably all she knows how to do and by asking her to change her old ways is very difficult. I think alot of people have a hard time changing.

Food issues is a very common problem with kids in the system also, because it is one thing that they do have the ability to control. "I will eat when i am hungry, and you cant make me"

It might sound harsh and spoiled, but the reality is, they have had such little control over anything, that if they find something that they can control, they will hold onto that control for as long as they need to, and that can take a very long time, especially someone who has numerous placements.

I understand your rule, and you do need to stick to it. Yes, she will continue to yell and scream, but she will eventually get it (hopefully).

numbr1dbcksfan,

I agree, there is no comparing homemade mac and cheese, to the mac and cheese in the box.

two totally different foods, and I would even go so far to say, totally different food groups....lol

[crick]

I just want to add a little thing here...

When our kids are placed with us, the changes and upheaval are so overwhelming. Yes, we have rules and yes they need to be followed. The routine is ever so necessary and important.

It's also important to realize that not every issue can be addressed at the same time. Things take time and you can't focus on every single issue at once. Pick a few things to work on and leave some room for compromise too. Their fight for survival needs to include some wins here and there too. Not wins over you, but wins for themselves that they still have a voice, their opinion counts and someone will understand them and care about their voice.

[MatthewS]

Unless we have a late dinner (sometimes even then), A gets a bedtime snack 15-20 minutes before jammie time. Typically its animal crackers, Dora the Explorer crackers, sometimes dry cereal, and once chicken and mozzerella ravioli that she discovered she loved. I'll get her wrapped up in a blanket on the bed and read with her for about a half hour. Usually we read two different things--children's bible first--brush teeth--then something that will help with her reading skills.

One of the things we discovered was that A really wants to know where mom and dad are and is happiest when we're within eye shot. The food, reading, and cuddling before sleep has been helping with attachment (I think) and has made her feel safe that she doesn't have to worry about food. (She used to be a night-time food snatcher and this has only happened once in the last 3 months).

She chooses her bedtime snack and as long as it isn't horribly unhealthy we're ok with it.

We have a strict rule though, once the toofers are brushed no more food for the night. If she says she's still hungry, I'll usually say, "Well, the teeth are brushed so there's no more food tonight. But I'll tell you what, we'll have a big breakfast in the morning."

Not sure if this helps. I know how you feel though!

[4inma]

MatthewS

sounds like the same routine we have also. My kids are also allowed a snack before bedtime,
then brush/ book/backrub/ cuddle/ and snore....lol.

I have actually found that the snack before bedtime has helped them go to sleep faster.

Not sure why, but were not fixing it if its working....lol.

[Howdy]

I read that when children who have suffered a serious loss (e.g., in foster care) cry, it triggers a grief reaction that is about their loss. I believe it is true because my daughter would miss her bparents anytime she cried about anything.

I also read that the parent should stay with the tantruming grieving child, because they are frightened by their feeling of being out of control of themselves.

So, my guess would be that there was a lot more going on than being hungry. Maybe after two hours of crying and yelling she was very hungry (it would make me hungry!), but that might not have been either the original cause or the reason it was so bad for so long.

I was reading a book on grief last week and problems at bedtime was one of the typical symptoms of grief in children. And of course, if there has been sexual abuse in the past, your child may also react to bedtime with other fears.

My dd is so bad about bedtime, that I usually just stay with her and read (first a book she likes, then one that I like that bores her right off to sleep). For a while she got so good that I could leave the room while she was still awake as long as I promised to return to check on her every two minutes (she was usually asleep by the second check), but this time of year is the anniversary of her being taken into foster care, and she has been a mess at bedtime this week. Now that she has been with me a long time, she is confortable at telling me her fears. This week she has expressed a fear that bad guys will come in the windows and touch her privates. She has said she sees a fight going on when she closes her eyes, that people are hitting each other and bleeding, she says she has a feeling that something bad is going to happen, etc. So I just stay with her and hold her hand, and give her a hot water bottle (actually a microwavable hot bead bag thing). I read that children are reassured by telling them what they feel is normal, so I told her yesterday morning that it was not surprising for her to feel like something bad is going to happen, since two years ago at this time she underwent a shocking change in her life by going into foster care. I think it helped because last night she was much less anxious.

Anyway, I think breaking the snack rule for your daughter was okay (since after two hours of crying and yelling her blood sugar was probably low and who can sleep like that), but I think she needed more help with her feelings during her upset time. Sometimes in the past during upset times I tell my dd I will stay with her and read as long as she is quiet and tries to sleep, and if she doesn't I'll go out of her room for 1 minute to give her time to quiet down (if I said I'd leave for the night she'd get hysterical, so 1 minute was enough for her to feel seriously punished but not so much that she couldn't handle it).

[allanacw]

Our daughter went through what I can now see was about a 4 month transition after being placed with us.

Sometimes she was so angry she didn't know what to do with herself. She would scream, cry, kick, bite and in many cases had no idea why. Because she has problems around defiance, we had other challenges and had to ensure we kept following through on every little thing. But we always ended it by saying we loved her no matter what, good behaviour or bad behaviour.

Time outs became our best friend. We went with the guideline of one minute for every year old she was. I have to tell you, there were times I was wishing she was thirty!

On one occasion I told her she should be angry. That no, it wasn't fair (she missed her foster family of three years terribly) and that she had every right to feel that way. She calmed down immediately.

I remember at the time thinking "Oh, my gosh...", and in hindsight it was a tough time. But things got better bit by bit, and she's like a different kid now. We had numerous setbacks, but at the same time had so many breakthroughs.

Follow your gut, take it day by day, and always feel free to vent or ask for help on the forums!

Allana

[AdrienneG]

Have you considered that her background before she got to your house may have been a place where peopel withheld food from her as a punishment or for other reasons.... in such a place, she probably learned that her needs would not be met and therefore gave up asking for what she needs.

Maybe she needs you to keep reminding her until she finally believes it to be true that you will never withold food from her or not feed her if she is hungry.

Plus she's new and its a big adjustment...she doesn't know yet what to expect in your house although she remembers what to expect in her previous place of residence.

Sorta off topic but reminds me of this a little bit..have you read the book White Oleander?

Originally Posted by twinsbk

My daughter(9) was placed in our home on 12/2/05. Last night she cried and yelled for 2 hrs. The last time I entered the room she calmed down and I found out, all of this was because she was hungry. The rules of the house are no eating after 9pm because this is bedtime.

This crying spell upset the entire house and I don't understand why she couldn't tell me this. I explained communication and allowed her to fix a sandwich. Now I'm questioning myself of why I didn't follow the rules.

I need help on this!!