[numbr1dbcksfan]

Well it wasnt meant to be judgement per say.. Not everything is black and while but the standards for approving foster/adoptive parents SHOULD BE (IMO). They should be on paper, published...whatever... and stuck to. Make an exception for one leaves the door open to make exceptions for others.

I dont judge your husband in general. I am just calling the situation as I see it. This isnt something that happened a long time ago that he has paid for and moved on from.. it happened recently and he is still serving the sentence..

That is how I would want the agency to see it.

I wont comment on the sterilization/removing children thing because it opens another can of worms.

Im sorry about your situation.

[w8ting2badad]

bksfan,
I understand its just your opinion that Never Ever place a child with someone with a drug conviction, but I must dissagree.

I had a misdomenor possesion of a pot pipe 8 years ago. I smoked a little weed back then, never thought it was going to matter, payed fine and was on my way. Fast forward to a year ago looking into adoption and come to find out we were disqualified from alot of countries, including columbia, because of my missdomenor. People with DUI's, no problem, but pot, oh no.

Long story short, we went the domestic adoption route and could'nt be happier. My info was in our homestudy but our birthmom never looked at it. Our birthmom had stated she had used marijuhana in her profile. I told her my story and assured her that I no longer use, I dont, and we made a connection. I feel I will be better able to relate with my daughter when she is confronted with the drug issue.

Anyways, just wanted to share my thoughts.

[numbr1dbcksfan]

Well if it makes you feel better my feelings are universal and extend to DUI's too...

LOL.

As a birthmom.. I know about mistakes and having to pay for them... but wow... if it were me who had a drug conviction... Well Ill just say that it would probably not be looked upon as sympathetically.

Systemwise, I think the internationals have it down.

I would totally include myself in all of this.. If I were a felon or had a drug conviction.. I dont think I should be able to adopt someone else's child either.
But I think that stems from the fact that I dont think anyone has a right to parent someone else's child, I think that children should have the right to the best family possible when separated from their biological family.

Agencies should have an obligation to the children to make sure they screen out anyone questionable at all. Not doing that IMO puts the child at risk. Anything less is a disservice.

Of course we know, and see all the time, that the agencies often fail children.

*sigh*

[michellemartin]

My feelings... overwhelming on this thread.

I would hate myself for placing my child with someone who had a felony, no matter what that felony was. Drugs, imbezzling, rape, whatever, it doesnt matter what the felony would be. But to find out my child was living with a convicted felon... that I choose a convicted felon to adopt my child... I could never forgive myself.

If I were to find out that Kara's ap's had a felony record I'd be devastated. I'd be wondering why I placed her... Not to say that your husband is a bad guy or anything like that at all, but I see it from the perspective of a birthmother believing she's choosing the best life for her child, a life for her child that she's supposedly unable to provide.
To me it would be a huge slap in the face because I'd see it as the system telling me a felon makes a better parent than I would have.


So for those very personal reasons, I have to say that I dont think anyone with a felony should adopt either.

[Missourimomtobe]

What if the bio mom knows of the felony and still chooses the couple? If this couple gives full disclosure once finding an agency that will work with them, and everyone knows of the issue and a choice is made to place with them, then who are we to condemn that woman's choice? It's a personal choice when placing a child for adoption; only the woman involved knows what she is seeking in the parents.

As for the social system placing a child with this couple, if they meet all the state requirements and have been truthful and a social worker is comfortable with the placement, why should it be questioned or condemned? God forbid I am ever in the position where my child is taken from me by the state but no one is perfect and IF that happened, I would want her placed in a home where people understand that mistakes happen, restitution can be made to society with the mistake not held against you for the rest of your life, and they provide a loving, caring environment for her while I cannot.

[numbr1dbcksfan]

I dont think that the profile should ever make it to the mom. It never dawned on me to ask if my daughters parents are felons.. There is so much to think about at that time. How many times is it said here on this board that a biological parent is unfit because of a past record.. or a past drug problem, etc.

The mother should never even have to choose a family.. then find out about a felony and then have to decide if that is ok with her... The agency should turn them away at the door... there is a client that walks the line for every one who doesnt. I also feel it is a slap in the face to people who are waiting to adopt and do not have a criminal past.

Drugs and stealing are no little thing... they are a big deal. Felonies are a big deal... if not... they wouldnt be felonies.

There are a lot of generalizations but one I think that I can make is that parents making an adoption plan want better for their child. Can we condemn the woman's choice if she chooses to place her child in the hands of a felon(s)-- I would have to go out on a limb and say that this is one circumstance in which I say go ahead and question her judgement.

But again, I put it back on the agency and it's responsibility to not take any chances with the children it places in homes. As far as I know there is not a shortage of crime free homes waiting out there..


If I were placing and changed my mind I can say for 90+% certainty that my felon past....drug past... especially if recent.. would be used as a reason to show a judge that I was unfit to have my child back. And well.. we see it done to fathers all the time....

[michellemartin]

I have to agree with Christine again. I'd definitely be questioning the judgement of a mother who was willingly placing with a convicted felon. And I do agree that felonies are a big deal. I could handle a misdemeanor charge. Past disorderly conduct or even truancy charges from the teen years... but a felony? That is a big deal. A very big deal.

But, what types of felonies would you say are acceptable for placement and which one's do you not condone? And where is the line? For example, if someone had an embezzling charge, would that be okay no matter how much money the person embezzled? Now what if it was drugs instead of money? What point does it make it not okay?

I think you will likely have a point where you say, well, that's to much. Or maybe it'll be being convicted twice for embezzling is the cut-off. I doubt that anyone would say that any crime is okay to adopt after without putting some sort of restriction on it (ex, one ounce of marijuana is okay, put the limit at one pound- restriction) So if we're going to restrict it, why bother allowing it at all? Where is the line if it's not at a zero tolerance?

But if there is something that is out there that is a felony that someone feels the felony shouldnt have a restriction for at all, I'd be interested in discussing this topic further.

[MamaTo6]

Hopeingformore.... Good luck finding an agency or foster care system to allow you to foster or adopt. I mean that with no sarcasm. If your story is as you say it is, and I have no reason to doubt you, then I think yiou should be given the opportunity to grow your family.

We are aparents to a beautiful 17 month old lil boy. I am also the bio mom to 5 grown children. I met my now dh 8 yrs ago. My dh has a criminal record (no felonies) and has even done 30 days in jail. His last conviction was 5 yrs ago for throwing his coffee at a cabbie who almost ran him over while speeding in a parking lot. He was charged with assault and pled guilty. Ofcourse he knows how stupid this was. Hes embarrassed and ashamed and would not be very happy with me if he knew i was shareing this with the cyber world. His 30 days in jail was for his 2nd dui in a 2 week period when he was a younger man. (much younger lol ) He was even charged with selling a joint when he was a teen ager. We live in Canada, so this isnt as big a deal as other places. He's a wonderful father and we wouldnt trade him for anything. He's a hard blue collar worker, he coaches kids sports, and is the first one to help anybody. People make mistakes!!! Period!! They grow up.

I say to go ahead and atleast inquire about foster or adopting. We passed our home study and now have our beautiful son..I can promise you, that now that my dh is a dad he wont be throwing any more coffees at anybody. He needs to set an example to his son and knows it.

Warm wishes....MamaTo6

[numbr1dbcksfan]

Im not sure why on earth crime would be considered acceptable. I mean... you cant get a JOB for quite a while after that. If you cant get a job because you are a felon then why would you get someone else's child??

Seriously. Im not talking about misdemeanors...and piddly stuff..in the past... where you are not under supervision. but... felonies? Seriously.... if it is all normal and acceptable then why have laws in the first place?? If you can just move on like nothing happened and the court isnt concerned.. then why would a person be on probation for three years??

How can a person be rehabilitated if they are not even 1/3 of the way through their sentence??

How can a person have "changed their ways" in one short year... ??

These are not teenage indescretions they are choices made by so called rational adults. So if the rational adult makes a choice to break the law in the form of a felony... I seriously question how rational that adult is.

These things are not something to brag or be proud of. They are not little things that should be overlooked. They are major illegal activities.

[MamaTo6]

Hopingformore...do you care to share the detail of your dh crime? I personally know people who have pled to crimes that, if they had money, would have been reduced to petty crimes and we wouldnt be talking about it now.

I cant help you, nor can my friends or I help you, or make judgements if we are not aware of what was involved. I want to side with you, because of my own dh, but my forum friends make good points. Sorry, but I probably shouldnt have "spoke" before I had all the details. This thread hit home, bc I had the same fears as you when dh's criminal history came back, and believe me I thought it came back to haunt us.

Care to share?

MamaTo6

[sneezyone]

I know I could have been locked up many times over for some of the stupid things I did in high school and college...there but for the grace of God go I. The sad reality is that many people plead to crimes that they have neither the time nor the money to fight (let alone adequate legal counsel), it's just easier to plead guilty. Rarely do people appreciate in advance what that conviction will mean later in life.

It's unfortunate that you're facing this situation but it doesn't sound like your looking for sympathy, just advice. So that's what I'll give...

I agree with the others that you should probably contact the state re: growing your family since they really only care about crimes and behaviors that endanger the physical/emotional health and welfare of a child (they have much bigger fish to fry than $$ criminals). That said, there probably is a waiting period of some sort after a conviction and the probation issue could be an obstacle. Keep your chin up tho, lots of people (not Martha) get off of probation early for good behavior. Maybe that's something to work toward.

Good luck to you!

[sneezyone]

Originally Posted by numbr1dbcksfan

Im not sure why on earth crime would be considered acceptable. I mean... you cant get a JOB for quite a while after that. If you cant get a job because you are a felon then why would you get someone else's child??

Seriously. Im not talking about misdemeanors...and piddly stuff..in the past... where you are not under supervision. but... felonies? Seriously.... if it is all normal and acceptable then why have laws in the first place?? If you can just move on like nothing happened and the court isnt concerned.. then why would a person be on probation for three years??

How can a person be rehabilitated if they are not even 1/3 of the way through their sentence??

How can a person have "changed their ways" in one short year... ??

These are not teenage indescretions they are choices made by so called rational adults. So if the rational adult makes a choice to break the law in the form of a felony... I seriously question how rational that adult is.

These things are not something to brag or be proud of. They are not little things that should be overlooked. They are major illegal activities.

I just wanted to respond to this b/c there are lots of rationales for criminal sentences:

• to punish
• to rehabilitate
• to make restitution/give the victim satisfaction
• to deter/prevent future crime

Punishment and rehabilitation are not the only reasons why we impose sentences. Without knowing someone or their partiucular crime, you can never know what goal(s)their sentence is designed to achieve or how it was determined/negotiated. The difference between a misdemeanor and a felony may be nothing more than a hefty payment to Jerry Spence.

The state hands children back to parents all the time who have committed crimes, serious ones - against their own child. Kinship placements are also done where the relative has a conviction. Mostly b/c the state recognizes, even if the public does not, that people/families are not perfect. So yes, there is life after a conviction, particularly for white-collar criminals. Yes, you can get a job, a good one, with a felony on your recod. Yes, you will eventually be able to add to your family (it just might take longer than you'd like). And yes, you are entitled to be happy.

I don't think anyone, including the OP, is saying that crime is a good thing, she came here asking a pretty basic question...(paraphrasing)...this is my situation, what are my options now? Why so much judgment?

[MamaTo6]

numbre1dbuksfan...Peopele get jobs all the time with felonies. Good jobs too.

Some people learn from their crimes as soon as they do them. You dont have to do probation or jail time to know that you acted dumb/stupid/immature/irresponsible or all the above, plus some. I've made lots of mistakes. but as snnezyone said, "but fot the grace of God there go I".

I got my license for adopting with a few bad marks on my sheet too, although was never caught, but did share my experiences with the adoption homestudy wrkr. Okay, admittantly, Ive never been to jail or been to court or even charged. What Im trying to say is, I was lucky!!! I smoked pot as an adult on a camping trip. (with no kids). Had I been charged or caught, should I have lost my 5 bio kids that were doing well socially academically, physically and mentally? Should I have gone to jail? I broke the law!! We even got one mom to buy the pot and then we all chipped in. We essentially purchased drugs and the law abiding mom of 4, sold them to us. Should she have gone to jail? We were a bunch of moms, away for the weekend, with no kids, no dh's, and all feeling a little bit goofy with a glass too many of bee, r and the freedom.

What would have been accompished had any of us been caught, charged or had our kids taken awy? Would we have been any less remorseful if we hadnt been 1/3 of our way through our punishment?

What about my son? What about dh and I? Is dh never allowed to parent bc I made a huge mistake by buying and possessing and even smoking pot? ( I say pot bc that is my experience but it could be any crime)

I say each case is different. I would think that the wrkr would have to make up her own mind.....and then make it passed committee.

Have you NEVER done anythiong illegal?

Warm wishes....MamaTo6

[hopingformore]

First, I would like to thank all of you who offered advice or opinion on the topic of my original post.

Second, I would like to "thank" those of you who hijacked the thread and turned it into a) a judgment of a man you don't know and b) your personal soap box. Really - could you maybe start your OWN thread.

I was honestly in tears at the last post from #1ducksfan which slammed my husband. I had heard that this board could be nasty but now I know for myself. It is easy to judge others when you have never stood in their shoes or met them face to face.

Congratulations, by the way on your perfectly led, mistake free lives.

[meimaemomma]

Hoping,
I'm so sorry for your sadness, and for the stress it must be producing for you to wonder if you'll be able to parent another child.
I don't think, though, that Christine and others who have joined the thread have done so to judge your husband (who they agree that they don't know) or to suggest that they have led perfect lives. I don't see anyone who has claimed that they have done so (though very many first families and waiting families - ours included - do not have a record of any sort. We sweated about a traffic ticket and were thankful when we were let off with a warning.) I don't want to put words in anyone's mouths (fingers, really), but I read them saying that they would not have knowingly chosen this situation for their children, and that they would not have expected to need to ask. And I see an impulse to protect women who cannot choose - because their children have entered the state system. No one is suggesting that anyone hasn't made mistakes. But as you know, parenting a child born to someone else is not a right, but a privilege, however hard that is for adopting families sometimes.
It is frustrating to have to let someone else (the state, an agency) decide if you are "good enough" when you feel good enough and when you know that were you to have a pregnancy such a situation would never matter a bit to your ability to parent. I do feel for that, even with nothing going against us but some medical issues (that didn't hold us back a bit but might have).
I would make some phone calls in your position, but I would expect to wait at least through his probation (and how recent the crime does seem to be the sticking point here). And I would keep in mind that these women do not seem to be trying to judge you but to say "As a first mother, this is not okay." As a first mother, it seems reasonable for me for them to say so.
God bless.