[LisaCA]

Hi spaypets,

I'm the one (i think) who brought up the international adoptions but I hope i put the "some" in my comments. I can't say why many folks do domestic adoption other than the comments that I've heard: longer wait but more certainty and no birthfamilies popping up, and issues of race. What percentage do so, I'm not sure, but we do have a hierarchy of races here in the US. For a number of people, this is important. I have to say that race was a major factor in our adoption. we wanted a child of African descent and specified such. I don't really have a problem with race as a factor, just some of the reasons behind it. While race is not biologically valid, it is a social reality.

btw, i'm always asked where dd comes from. I say "chicago" and folks are shocked. I guess the idea of the "homegrown" baby is a bit of a shock for them.

[kelleymac]

I do think that many people not involved in adoption believe the myth that there are no children available to adopt in the US. (or that it's so difficult that most people go international).

I applaud the tone of all posts in this thread. I find it refreshing (and frankly shocking) that we can have such an open line of communication on a topic that can be very sensitive. Thank you all!

Kelley

[Kelli]

I have to say that race was a major factor in our adoption. we wanted a child of African descent and specified such. I don't really have a problem with race as a factor, just some of the reasons behind it.

Exactly! I've noticed that issues of "race" versus "racism/racist or prejudice" views sometimes gets a little jumbled up in these types of discussions. I think there is clearly a difference.

Kelli

[spaypets]

Originally Posted by Binyasa

Spaypets -- you've mentioned that your daughter was probably placed for adoption in part due to her darker skin tone... it's so heartbreaking. I've learned a lot from you on these boards, so please don't think that I was remotely referring to you or to most other adoptive parents involved with international adoption in my post above.

Just a quick correction, my daughter may not have been _chosen_ for adoption by Indian families because she is darker than what is considered fashionable in her region of the country. She was _placed_ for what we've been told is economic reasons.

[Casey677]

I thought I would offer my reasoning behind our race specifications. My dh and I are both cc. We are open to a cc or a cc/any other race mixed child. Our reason for this has nothing to do with skin color and everything to do with the nosiness of society today. If our child is half cc then to strangers on the street, I could (or dh could depending on the situation) as far as they are concerned be the biological parent. Let them think that I had an affair, that dh is my second husband, that we adopted... whatever they want to think. But I do not want to spend the rest of my life being questioned by and explaining to perfect strangers how my family was created. Every person I know, knows that we are adopting. I am very proud and excited about that fact. I will more than likely continue to tell people that I meet because that is just the way that I am. But at some point I can see us wanting to be just a family and not "oh look there is that couple that adopted the AA or Hispanic or Asian kid". I don't know if that makes sense to anyone else and it is ok if it doesn't. But it makes sense to us and that was the important thing.........

Casey

[spaypets]

Interesting Casey,
I think because DD is so obviously not our biological child we get fewer intrusive questions. Everyone has always assumed (correctly) that she's adopted. We don't have to explain anything.

I'm curious, though. Why would you rather have people think of you as an adulterer than someone who adopted (which is what I got from your post)? Speaking for myself, I'd be mortified if someone assumed that one of us wasn't DD's parent.

[ginadc]

I had written a long post on this subject the other day and my computer ate it; here's hoping I can get this one posted.

My DH and I are just starting our homestudy process. We are both CC--about as white-bread, Euromutt CC as they come. For our own selfish needs, we just want a baby, and we would be entirely open to a child of any color and would love them just as passionately no matter what their race. And we don't give a flying fig about what other people think or the dumb questions they ask; other people's opinions won't shape how I choose to build my family.

But we are leaning toward not adopting AA, because of our concerns about our own capabilities in terms of preparing an AA child or children for the unique challenges that, sad to say, they still face in America today.

In other words, we don't have the life experience that AA parents would have in raising an AA child in the still-racist society we have. The example that always springs to mind is when our son or daughter is 17 and out for a drive, and gets stopped by the police for no other reason than they stop black teenagers much more than white teenagers. When that child comes home and tells us about that horrible experience, we will be outraged on their behalf, we will hug them and console them and tell them that they are beautiful and wonderful and perfect, but what we will not be able to do is say, "Honey, I understand. It happened to me (or my brother, or my mom, or my dad) too." We will be able to sympathize, but we won't be able to empathize. We will never have been there. What's more, without that life experience, I worry that we won't have the skills or understanding to adequately prepare AA kids for these kind of issues. We can learn about them, we can talk about them, we can seek out mentors, but will we ever "get it" the way that AA parents would?

I know that racism in America doesn't affect just AA kids, and that we will/would encounter race issues should we adopt a child of any race other than CC. (We're adopting domestically.) But you don't hear about "driving while Hispanic," for example--I do think that kids of AA heritage in America face an increased level of discrimination and social challenges, above and beyond what other "minority" groups do.

I want to be the best parent I can possibly be. I want to give my child(ren) everything they need, want and deserve--all the love, all the safety and security, all the self-reliance, and all the emotional resources they need to meet the world strong and self-assured. I would like to think that I could learn the things I do not know well enough to be that kind of parent for an AA child, but I remain concerned that learning it and having lived it are too far apart.

Honestly, in many ways our situation would be ideal for adopting AA kids: we live in a very diverse community with a lot of transracial families, and both of our families are totally open to any child we adopt; my parents acted as informal surrogate foster parents to a biracial brother and sister in their small Nebraska town for a couple of years, thoroughly ignoring ignorant comments from some of their neighbors when they went to church together.

So given that, and having raised all the previous concerns, I'd like to ask the CC parents who've adopted AA kids here if they had similar worries about their own "skills," and if they did, how they've addressed them. We haven't made a final decision on what we'll tell our agency in terms of race, and we're still going over and over this together. I would love to hear that it's something that can be overcome.

[Jensboys]

Of course we have concerns about our skills - thats why we are here finding support, research ways to help our kids.

It have half the battle won - you are AWARE that there are just going to be certain issues you will have to get help with. You will be willing to foster same race friendships and relationships for your child. The reality is, these same issues will be important for your child NO MATTER what their race. You wont know what its like to be adopted either - is that going to scare you off of adopting? You wont know what its like to be raised with bsiblings or no bsiblings etc etc etc ... thats part of being a parent.

I think you'd do a great job!

Jen

[Sleeplvr]

Has anyone thought that by backing away from AA adoptive placements that you are helping perpetuate discrimination? If good people sit by and do nothing then you are helping discrimination stay alive.

[ginadc]

Thanks, Jensboys! You do make an excellent point with this:

The reality is, these same issues will be important for your child NO MATTER what their race. You wont know what its like to be adopted either - is that going to scare you off of adopting? You wont know what its like to be raised with bsiblings or no bsiblings etc etc etc ...

It's true, there are obviously a lot of "life experiences" we won't be able to share with our child; neither of us was adopted, for example. And I won't know what it's like to have a sibling (we hope to adopt either two or three eventually--after we see how well we do parenting one! ), as I'm an only child.

I guess I've just always seen the challenges of institutionalized and societal racism as such an enormous problem that it strikes me as a particularly difficult "lack of reference" to overcome when raising a child. I.e., while our society is fairly clueless in many ways about adoption, it's not as if we ever had "no adoptee" signs at drinking fountains and lunch counters. Employers don't discriminate against you because you're adopted. Teachers don't assume you won't excel in school because you're adopted. Cops don't stop you more often on the highway because you're adopted, or look at you suspiciously in "nice" neighborhoods. Does that make any sense?

But I really would like to believe that my husband's and my "lack of life experience" with these sorts of things could be overcome in our parenting by awareness, self-education, support organizations, and a diverse array of friends, neighbors, and community mentors. We just moved to our wonderful, multicultural, progressive town (a few miles outside NYC) from a much more homogeneous area about 45 minutes away, and I'm so much happier here and think this would be the perfect place in which to raise a multiracial family.

[MMC66]

Our children regardless of race will have life experiences that we have not had. Simply being adopted is something that many adoptive parents have not experienced, yet they go foreward and adopt and bring up successful, productive, well adjusted children. I'm having a hard time with the life experience thing.

Casey - We have only had Addy for 4 months, she is biracial and that has not stopped the rude intrusive questions so I would prepare yourself for those questions just the same as if you were adopting a full AA baby. Also biracial babies can be very dark skinned and look sometimes even darker than a full AA child.

I hope I don't seem too harsh. I'm just sad for these babies and their birthmoms.

Thanks,

Martha

[ginadc]

I'm having a hard time with the life experience thing.

Um...I'm sorry you're "having a hard time with it." I'm not exactly sure what that means--that you don't believe me? That you think I'm trying to make excuses? If that were the case, why would I even bother posting here and trying to get perspectives from CC parents of AA adoptees as to how substantial these challenges have proven to be? I'd just blithely go my merry way and not even consider adopting transracially.

The fact is, transracial adoption is definitely something we would like to consider, but I don't want to overestimate my own abilities as a parent and ignore the very real challenges we would face. I'm being honest about what worries us about being the best possible parents to any child we adopt, and trying to get insights from people who have indeed "been there" about what it's been like for them.

And also, I would really love to hear from AA parents (I haven't seen any adult/teen adopted AA children with CC adoptive parents hanging around here, or I'd pose the issue to them as well): Do you think CC parents would "get it" in terms of some of the things AA kids face? Obviously not as well as someone who's been through it, but--well enough? When you experienced racism in your own lives as children, do you think it helped that your own parents had grown up with the same things? Do you think you would've felt that you weren't understood if your parents didn't share your race?

Jensboys', I really appreciate your understanding and supportive post.

[MMC66]

I'm sorry, I just get frustrated sometimes. I'm glad you are considering transracial adoption and I'm glad you are taking the decision seriously. I shouldn't have criticized. I do have two AA cousins raised by CC parents. They are both grown and have children of their own and are doing really well. That really helped influence my decision. Also, I met a woman in her early thirties who grew up with CC parents and 4 CC siblings in a very affluent white Boston suburb. She decided not to raise her family there but is a very successful well adjusted woman and is now adopting her own children and describes her childhood in a very positive light despite the occasional cluelessness of others.

Sorry Again,

Martha

[BethanyB]

My cousin has been "pulled over while being Asian." He is CC/Phillipino. He gets pulled over a LOT because he looks biracial (AA/CC) and hispanic. Many hispanic men get pulled over a lot too. There are a lot of Hispanic people in the apartment complex across the street from where I live and the cops are ALWAYS driving by and sitting out front. (And I have never heard of anything happening there.) So there are other groups of people who are discriminated against. I think it is the lighter skin that attracts people to Hispanic children.

I think CC people CAN raise AA children to be bright, happy and healthy individuals. If someone wants to adopt a child of the same race as themselves, I can understand that. You don't want to have to explain your life story to EVERY stranger. But when someone is opposed to raising a "full AA" child but not an Asian or Hispanic child...I have to question their reasoning. Adopting transracially is adopting transracially.

I think many people do make excuses as to why they couldn't accept an AA child. Many times it's because THEY have a certain image in their minds about AA people in general. THEY don't want people to think bad things about them. (Not saying everyone...but many.)

I liked when sleeplvr said...
"Has anyone thought that by backing away from AA adoptive placements that you are helping perpetuate discrimination? If good people sit by and do nothing then you are helping discrimination stay alive."

I couldn't agree more!

[ginadc]

Martha, apology accepted, and I too apologize if I was unduly prickly.

Examples like these encourage me a great deal:

I do have two AA cousins raised by CC parents. They are both grown and have children of their own and are doing really well. That really helped influence my decision.

It's certainly also very encouraging to see happy, successful transracial families in which CC parents are raising young AA kids, but hearing about the long-term results, where the kids are grown, is even more positive to me. I always worry that the kids might grow up and say, "Good god, what were my parents thinking, they didn't have the first clue about what my life was like and it's taken me years to get over!" (Then again, I guess I say that about my own parents sometimes... )

Bethany, wow. I had never heard of "DWA" or "DWH"--I guess the whole "driving while black" thing has gotten more media attention. While I still think that institutionalized racism against AA people in this country is probably overall worse than against any other minority group, that makes me realize that there's a lot more insidious stuff going on out there that we're not aware of in our own little bubble (no matter how well-read that bubble may be).

We have a close friend who is also Filipino and looks Hispanic--so much so that a business trip to Mexico City drove him nuts because everyone started speaking to him in rapid-fire Spanish and he had no clue! Anyway, he's never mentioned experiencing anything like that, but then again, we've never asked, so maybe I'll bring it up to him and see if he's faced similar things.

See, this is why I love the Internet. Where else could you get so many perspectives from so many different people with such widely varying life experiences, so quickly? Thanks, all!