[redhedded]

We opted not to circumcise our son, who is now 8 weeks old. I realize this is a very personal choice; however, most of the world does not perform this procedure, and my husband is from such a country. We never considered having it performed and are very confident and secure in our decision; nonetheless, I have been wondering if our ds will someday wish we would have proceeded, even though keeping babies intact is really common today.

We have a great PPO but do not know if this is covered. Did your insurance cover this procedure? Pardon my stream of consciousness. Recently the Federal government opted to add ****** to the list of covered and medically beneficial drugs for men while many private insurance companies do NOT cover birth control for women. This seems strange to me. What if individuals do not have private insurance and gave birth at county hospitals supported by state and federal dollars and are serviced by Medicaid for general medical care; do they have to pay out of pocket for the cosmetic surgery of circumcision?

[katieb31323]

We did circumcise our son after placement but before finalization and insurance did cover it.

As to why some things are and why some things aren't...who can figure! Another example of how messy our health system (as good as it can be so much of the time) is screwed up and getting increasingly unafforable. sigh.

Kathy

[lisa in venice]

At the time of placement of our first ds our insurance did not cover circumcision so we had to think about if it was really needed. Well that was 15 years ago and he is still "intact" Haven't heard a complaint. Now we live in a city with rapidly falling circumcision rates so being uncut is VERY common.

As to what is covered and what isn't, it often doesn't make sense. That same ds knocked out his front teeth when he was six. Our insurance would not cover the repeted proceedures to save the teeth which totaled $600 but they would cover several bridges and dental implants at a cost of thousands of dollars go figure.

lisa

[tobeafamily]

Red,

Unless there's evidence of medical necessity - i.e. problems with foreskin, repeated uncontrollable UTIs, etc. that would make circumcision necessary, our federal program (Tricare) does not cover it either. We chose not to have Ryan circumcised b/c we figured as long as he's healthy, it was up to him to decide how he wanted himself to look.

As to why plans don't all cover the same things, it's not because they see some as more or less 'appropriate', most private plans are devised at the behest of the employer, who sets forth what they wish to cover. Some is based on premium cost, other on employer's 'philosophy', whatever. For instance, a Catholic School may not wish to offer birth control coverage to its' employees b/c it's against their faith.

Insurance companies generally will cover whatever a policy purchaser wishes, granted they're willing to pay the associated premium. So if an employer says 'we want coverage for cosmetic circumcision' than the insurer will happily sell them a plan with this benefit.

Now where it REALLY doesn't make sense is in the federal sector, especially benefits controlled by Congress. They can add anything or delete anything from coverage regardless of medical necessity, justification, benefit, etc. A good example is stem cell transplantation for TX of advanced Breast CA. Treatment didn't cure the cancer and didn't extend life, wrecked quaility of life, and was unbelievably expensive, but b/c the public clamored for it, our Congress added it as a benefit to Tricare.

HTH

Regina

[redhedded]

Lisa, Thank you thank you thank you for the affirmation. You know I envisioned this angst filled teenager asking me why I did this (or didn't do rather) among the many other things that I am sure he will think I am clueless about. Though my husband assures me that we and he will not be sorry. Of course, I knew only a handful of Angelinos who chose to circumcise.

I, frankly, am shocked at the amount of time I have spent thinking about this. I was SO CERTAIN of my conviction. I am pretty sure this has arisen because we know a little person who recently had to be circumcised at five due to repeated UTIs; though I know this is extremely rare, it has caused me to second guess myself.

[redhedded]

So Regina, It would stand to reason that being "intact" will increase not only among the granola "natural preference" group (to which I belong) but also within those covered by military insurance and those who have no private insurance and rely on public healthcare.

[allycupe1]

Just adding my two cents. I'm new to this community but both my sons are intact. My 13 year has never mentioned that it is an issue or a problem. But since his mom is one of those crazy granola crunching, cloth diapering fools, recycling & composting fools....he wouldn't....LOL I thought he would bring it up as teenage hood hit but he really hasn't, I don't think it bothers him or concerns him in the least. He has too many pimples and bad hair to keep him occupied


Allie

[tobeafamily]

Red,

Well, it already is increasing, rates of circumcision have been dropping since the early 1970s.

Keep in mind though that this would only apply to children who are circumcised at some point after their birth. Routine circumcision of a newborn is generally always covered as part of neonate care - whether the coverage is public or private. If not circumcised at birth or shortly thereafter, such as in part of a bris ceremony, then it is considered a separate episode of care. To be covered, most plans require that there be a medical reason, just like they would any other surgical procedure.

As a taxpayer, I think it's good policy. Why should I, as the funding source for federal and state health insurance programs, pay for a purely cosmetic procedure? Because somone wants their son to look like his daddy? I would no more want my tax dolllars pay for this than I would want them used to pay for a facelift, tummy tuck, etc. I'd rather that money be spent on preventative, curative or palliative care.

BTW I figure that if my son wants to be circumsised sometime down the road, fine. We had the option of doing this at his birth, his bmom even signed for it, and chose not to (which was fine with her BTW). I see no reason to perform surgery on a perfectly functioning body part strictly for apperance sakes, especially a part that generally isn't on display anyway.


JMHO



Regina

[2boyz1girl]

My oldest ds was on UT Medicaid at the time of his birth and they did pay for his circumcision. I wish they hadn't. I only did it because the Dr. told me to do "what ever his dad had," as if they were going to compare!?! His birthdad isn't even in the picture anymore... When I was pregnant with my second son I was taking a sociology class in college and we discussed female circumcision in third world countries and how horrible it is -- yet we do it in this country to baby boys every day. Needless to say, dh and I (mostly I) decided NOT to circumcize him. I actually had a nurse come into my hospital room and try to convince me to change my mind. I'm still very happy with my decision. My three brothers were not circumcized at birth, but one had to be circumcized at the age of 8 because of an infection. HOWEVER, my Mom tells me that within an hour he was out riding a bike! The feeling I get from my other two brothers (it's not a topic we openly discuss ), is that they are happy about not being circumcized.

[icunurse]

We had DS circumcised for a number of reasons (which I will not go into in order to avoid debate and/or controversy). There's pro's and con's both ways, but no solid evidence either way, so, for most people, it really is just a preference choice. I want to add, however, that we did ask our agency about "what if the bmom says 'no' in the hospital?". We were told that we would have to petition the agency in order to be given approval for a non-necessary procedure or wait until finalization. We asked our ped about it and, if we waited until after 6 months of age, it can't be done in an office and would have to be done under anesthesia in the OR. Just something to consider....

[LisaCA]

we tried to think ahead about this in case we adopted a boy. Dh was squeamish about it, even though he's circumcised. I think we basically decided to not do the procedure. I think if we let them decide when they're older they'll opt to not do it (this is based on dh's reactions to anything that might be sharp approaching his lower areas, also his reaction to having the cats castrated). We heard the "do what dad has" too, which seemed peculiar at best, but then again, I'm not a guy and I don't know what they do).

go figure about insurance. It always seems that they cover the short term thinking and nothing long term, and they are also quite sexist in their coverage. I hear stories all the time like lisa's. Hey, I'm still wondering why kaiser permanente has posters in the pediatrics lobby telling you to turn off the tv and read to your kid, while a tv plays a kid video prominently placed in the same lobby (at quite a volume I might add). We complain, but apparently many of the moms complain that there is nothing to do while they wait (bring a book maybe?). common sense seems a quite uncommon, esp in the insurance industry.

LisaCA

[Jensboys]

We had a bio son who was quite close in age when we adopted our two other boys (their ages were then 2,3,4). It was a question (and an embarassing one at that) to ask the foster mom if the two boys were or werent circumcized. They were (as was bio son). Interestingly enough, they were her only circumcized african american boys she had ever had ... and other foster moms had told her the same. So I think it is also a culture thing and is more prevalent in certain communities than others.

Both bio sons were done within days of being born and had no complications but friends from our church almost lost their son in December due to complications (bleeding) from a circ done poorly. Was scary for them ... and I think in the future they would NEVER have it done again, or go to a specialist clinic that is located 6 hours from our town.

Jen

[bjolly]

Red, I recall reading a study somewhere that basically said most men who were circumcised as babies feel fine about being circ'ed, and most men who were never circumcised feel fine about that too. The upshot was that whichever they guy had, that was what felt normal to him since it was all he'd ever known. In other words, whichever way you go, it's unlikely your son will be upset with you about it later. : ) hope that helps.

[LibertyArk]

it's interesting to respond to this query because I did 9 months of research before making my decision, and how I came to my decision was basically because I interviewed a dozen of my gay male friends and looked at lots of pictures (use your imagination) to determin which was more attractive, like, if I were a guy what would I want to look like? Factoring in with that, I also had my husband's opinion, "I want him to look like me," and, a friend whose one year old had complications for not having a circumsicion... then, I had to weigh all that against my best dearest friend's advice against "genital mutilation" -- and that was a doozy because I love my friend truly but felt that I was being abused for coming to my decision which was to circumsize my son, and in the end, no, the insurance did not cover it, however, the surgery was only $200 and there was local anesthetic and we were able to be nearby and it took less than ten minutes and our son cried for about a minute...

I hear gross yuchy horror stories of how these little boys are traumatized yada yada but from what I can tell you about my son, he is psychologically sound and his penis is really cute and clean even when dealing with dirty diapers. If there is anything that influences the most, I really do think it's extended breastfeeding-- we've been at it for 2.5 years and may even go into the third year. From what I can see, the nursing has helped my son socially and verbally-- his language is at age 4 and he can also read and identify the alphabet as well as numbers up to the teens.

But as for circumsicion, I think we made the right choice. If this board still exists 16 years from now , I'll ask him to post a reply. Oh, but what I have heard from my gay male friends who did go with circumsicion in adulthood because of sexual esteem issues, they said it was VERY PAINFUL and WISHED THEY HAD IT DONE WHEN THEY WERE BABIES. Plus, it was then EXPENSIVE as it became "cosmetic surgery."

So, I guess, the sooner the better if it's going to happen. Maybe google that 411 for more insight...

[Elissa1111]

I know two MEN in their late 20"s, that as they put it were "cut". Both men said it is like this: Take you finger and pull back 5 or more layers of skin untill it's raw. Now imagine someone touching you finger where it's raw and where you can feel EVERYTHING. That is how it used to feel for them during sex. Both men said they would pay money to have their whole penis back again.

Their words not mine.

BTW my 2 boys aren't but once they are adopted DH wants them to be. I dont' know how I feel about it. How can I really know? I dont' have a penis.