[79nic]

I agree that "giving birth" leave should be separate from "becoming a parent/bonding time" leave. I just think there should be both.

It frustrated me to no end that my dh had to go back to work three days after we had Elise. THREE DAYS? Sure, he could've taken FMLA, but then we would've been down to zero income. Not an option.

And if we gave men time off for becoming fathers, too, then the issue of "not hiring women" wouldn't be any worse than it is now.

[BethanyB]

But what you are missing is that they are our sick days to be paid to us. Do you see what I mean? Weather I take them if I have the flu or if I call out sick and go to the beach. They have to pay for a sub. They are my ten sick days per year. They already know up front that I am alloted those days and will need to pay for a sub when I take them. Because I have a very low immune system I usually take most of my sick days anyway. They will be paying a sub anyway.

I would never want bio parents to have their sick days taken away because they don't need that full time for recovery. And I would think that bio parents would be behind adoptive parents getting the same time as they are allowed. We should be backing each other up. We are all wanting to spend time at home with our child. And I would back any father to get the same.

[Sean&Shan]

I'm so glad this was brought up. I don't know anyone at my work that has adopted. As teachers neither my DH or I get any paid baby related leave (either birth or adopted). I just assumed I could use my sick days to suppliment my time off as my girlfriends have done after they had babies. I do agree that none of them "bounced back" and were ready to return to work within days, but I also don't know of any of them that medically needed a full six weeks. This now has me really worried. I've been purposely saving my sick days for years to have a baby and I certainly can't afford 3 months off without any pay. AAuughhhh!

[Kmac]

At my company, the longer you've been on staff, the more maternity leave you get--yet they also pay for it out of disability, and say that doesn;t apply to adoptive mothers

In other words, does a woman who has been with the company five years require 50% more time to recover than a woman there 2 years?

I agree, too, that six weeks is a long time to say a woman is physically disabled by birth (without complications)

if you were really that disabled who would take care of the kids? "-)

[Brat]

I went to visit a co-worker of mine who'd given birth week before. She was bouncing around her house like a teen-ager, bored, and telling me she was ready to return to work.

A week after my dd joined our family, I was in another state. I was physically exhausted from being a new, sleepless mom to a newborn trying to figure out where to buy, for example, formula, emotionally exhausted from the placement experience and unable to return to work because, well, I was in another state.

Why does the government concern itself more w/my co-worker's issues than mine? I couldn't be at work for reasons beyond my control. I don't think that the govt should be responsible for paying for every issue I have in life, but if it's willing to pay for six weeks leave for every woman who gives birth, regardless of recovery time actually needed, it's well aware that the mother is using it for reasons beyond health.

I understand that this is remedied by paid FMLA. But not if, as is my case, the employer has less than 50 employees.

You specifically asked about my employer.

*Sigh*

My employer allowed that same co-worker of mine to use all of her paid sick/personal leave plus vacation days for the year last January before she gave birth. Meaning, she hadn't accrued any of those days. She took six weeks paid disability leave on top of that post birth.

When I adopted in February, I asked to be able to use my unaccrued paid sick/personal leave, as she had, since I'd been there over a decade and was probably good for it. I was denied, and in fact, because I was gone two months, they took two days away that I hadn't accrued in my absence. They knew she would be going on maternity leave when she was using up all that unaccrued leave and vacation time, but let her use every single one of those days.

Why was my employer concerned more about her issues than mine? That's one I'm still trying to figure out. I'm thinking of sending them that Dave Thomas Foundation CD on compassionate employer practices for adoptive parents.

[parent2b]

Okay...a couple more comments then I'll leave this thread alone. I feel very strongly about this issue. Medical leave is medical leave. If our society wants parental time for bonding (bio, adoptive, OR foster) we need to decide as a society if we value that SEPARATELY because they are TWO SEPARATE ISSUES. In that statement I haven't even stated my opinion on that subject. I am simply bringing up and "academic" debate and what I personally believe is incorrect in our current legislation (not even as the laws relate to adoption).

On a side (but related note), I believe in Personal Time Banks (PTB's, PTO's -- whatever they are calling them these days). This allows an employee to choose which days s/he wants to take off. In this way, healthy honest employees are not "penalized" because they don't use any sick days. If an employee wants to use all of his personal time for adoption that is his choice. If an employee wants to use it for mental health days, s/he has a choice and can make his/her own mind up. I also think time off should be left to the discretion of the employee. Usually companies give approximately 20 days off that you use for ANY time off you have--what you consider to be holidays, doctor's appts, etc. As time passes in your employment the number of days off in a year increases.

Okay...I'm stepping off my soap box. Thanks for allowing me to "come out of observation mode" on this topic

[Brat]

Actually, I just went to their website and did just that.

[taggrr2]

Brat,

I think we should be clear about this. I don't think it is the government that is making the distinction. Federal law treats both situations the same. It is company policy as to recovery vs bonding time that is the issue which in my mind is out of govt control at the moment. The one way that I suppose govt is in control is at the state insurance law level making sure moms get covered for at least 48 hours in the hospital.

Can anyone enlighten as to whether there is law requiring 6 weeks leave??

[jleasterday]

I just wanted to post that I had a job where we would accrue 1 hour of vacation time for every 10 hours we worked (we called it personal leave, PL, time). That time was yours to use however you wanted, be it sick, adoption, birth, shopping, etc. I really liked my PL time. I ended up with 130 hours when I was laid off (and they paid me it). Just thought I would add that.

Jennifer

[Mommy2amiracle]

Hi, All:

Our company gives 1 week paid leave for both biological fathers and adoptive parents. Biological mothers receive 4 weeks prior to birth and 6 weeks after paid time off. If you check out the National Adoption Council website, you will see what most large companies provide. Also, California has a law on the books that mandates 6 weeks paid time off for foster/adopt parents. I think it is called the Family Leave Act?!?!

Anna, I assume from your post that your husband took FMLA that you are a SAHM so you did not have to choose between staying home with your children or going to work and getting paid? I know many women who gave birth and those who had vaginal deliveries were up and around in a matter of days. The rest of their time off looks like a paid luxury to stay home with their child and bond!! But that is just my perception I suppose!

[gabsdot]

I've always been amazed at how little maternity leave is given in the US. I live in Ireland and here we get 18 weeks maternity and 16 weeks adoptive leave. This is paid by the state and often employers top it up. Also you can then take a further 4 weeks unpaid at the end of the leave and each parent can take 12 weeks unpaid parental leave at any time before the child is 5. Other european countries are even more generous.
Maternity leave is not only to recover from childbirth it's also to get yourself organised and used to your new baby and to get to know each other. I really needed time off after we adopted our son to get used to him and get organised. I decided then not to go back to work at all so I feel very lucky
I don't know how women are able to go back to work so soon. Well done. I know I couldn't have done it.

[spitzlvr]

I feel I must comment on a part of this thread. Several people on this thread have said the following (a quote from BethanyB, but others have agreed wholeheartedly)

<snip>
All of the friends that I have talked to who have given birth say it does not take that long to recover (unless you have a c section.) My one friend who is a single mom went back to work after a week because she needed the money.
<snip>

I find this kind of all-encompassing statement to be very upsetting to me. I have a 3yr old bio-son. Due to problems during the birth (it was a natural birth tho, not a c-section), I needed every minute of my 6 weeks. I had to have my parents come to help me and DH with my son, because I needed nursing as well as he. And when I went back to the doctor for my 6 week checkup, I was told I would remain on disability at least another 4 weeks. (By that time I felt healed).

So, seeing all these posts where people are basically saying a woman giving birth needs a week to recover, then after that she just says home and enjoys an extended vacation with her child is driving my crazy. I couldn't even go to my son's first few doctor visits! My Mom and DH had to take him! I was not sitting on the couch eating bon-bons!!

OOps, I am getting upset. I better post this.

[Mommy2amiracle]

Spitzlvr:

I don't read any where that we said ALL women only need a few days. I know that I said MANY. We never said that you were sitting on the couch eating bon-bons those are your words. What we were saying is that of those women that we know SEVERAL seem to recover very quickly and then have those weeks to get to know their baby and set up a routine which we don't have the opportunity to do (that is all)!! Shoot, my sister was back in her bikini and on the beach two weeks after the birth of my niece!!!! I'm sorry that you had such a hard recovery from your child's birth.

[numbr1dbcksfan]

Well..

I have given birth twice and was working in two separate industries each time.

I did not have any paid maternity leave for either one. And as far as I know...if I were to get pregnant now...I wouldnt have paid maternity leave from this job either. So I guess Im jealous that people have paid maternity at all!! LOL.

I also had to have a doctor's release both times to go back to work-- and both times I had to beg my doctor to let me go back to work early because he was not going to sign the release until that six week check up(or when the bleeding stops). Something about a giant baby and placenta being detached from your insides that leaves room for complications!! LOL! I really dont think it is about whether other people think all is well or not..lift something a little too heavy or stretch the wrong way and you can open a wound.

Anyway...
I think the bonding thing would get complicated... what about step-parent adoption?? What about if you suddenly get custody of your or someone else's children... there are just so many different situations to take into consideration. Plus...I would not want federal stepping on state's rights...and I wouldnt want states stepping on employer's rights.... It is just really too big of a can of worms to open IMO. If it is a concern...I would just ask about company benefits before accepting a job!

Really, so many people are just concerned about being unemployed and not getting a pay check at all.. I dont think that people would put bonding time near the top of the list.

I really really hope that everyone is just ranting and relieving frusteration..... I never know how to take these things....

Not trying to offend... just a bit taken aback...

Christine

[spitzlvr]

Maybe I reacted too quickly and harshly. I did read "all my friends" and stuff like that. It just got to me. I guess I also jumped because I am 8 weeks pregnant (and hormonal), and am very nervous. Both me and my ds had a very hard time, and I worry - I am 4 years older now. I just want this pregnancy to go smoother than my first. No problems. But.....